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Pentax K-3 body $996 - (Mod Note: Read comments before jumping on this!)
Posted By: si_film, 12-01-2013, 04:23 AM

On ebay from seller "6ave"

$996.45, includes a few cheapie accessories.

Pentax K 3 Digital SLR Camera Black Body 16GB Package | eBay



Last edited by si_film; 12-01-2013 at 05:58 AM.
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12-01-2013, 12:30 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by ToyTank Quote
So this listing comes with generic charger and battery instead of OEM?
Where do you see "instead of", it says in the box all the pentax items that come in the K-3 box. The battery and charger are cheapie extras.
Let's no try to spread unfactual information.

You guys have to understand the ebay buyer protection feature. It's easy to return if you don't get what you expect.
I bet this price jumps up on 12/3 after the MAP restriction is back in place.

12-01-2013, 12:43 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by si_film Quote
...
I bet this price jumps up on 12/3 after the MAP restriction is back in place.
In which case some of us will continue to wait until the price is right. I want a good price with the Pentax Forum "kickback" in place. In the meantime I'll struggle along with what I've got.
12-01-2013, 01:33 PM   #18
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gray market no doubt
12-01-2013, 01:49 PM - 1 Like   #19
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I expect either you have either never bought from a Brooklyn Grey Market camera merchant or work for one. What ToyTank describes is an extremely common practice.

And the eBay buyer protection feature is a complete misnomer. Basically, what it does is automatically takes the money out of the seller's account without verification that a buyer's allegations are correct. In a sense, it is extremely anti-seller - at the first step, since eBay takes the buyer's word for it, no questions asked. The sword cuts both ways, though. All the merchant has to say is "the buyer didn't return everything I sent." Then the burden is on the buyer to prove this is untrue - which is almost impossible since you already sent your package out.

Then you lose your money. Then you get kicked off ebay for committing "fraud." And your negative feedback is removed. If the seller has bothered to file an ICCC report, then there is literally nothing you can do, since despite the official sounding name, the government's policy is to not actually investigate individual fraudulent transactions reported through the ICCCC.

If you don't think this happens, then spend some time reading the message boards on eBay. eBay does very little to protect either party. They do next to no investigating on their own, and the unscrupulous merchants - and customers - know this and know how to exploit all the loopholes. How do you think a merchant that has an under 30% rating from ripoff report can maintain a 99+% feedback?

QuoteOriginally posted by si_film Quote
Where do you see "instead of", it says in the box all the pentax items that come in the K-3 box. The battery and charger are cheapie extras.
Let's no try to spread unfactual information.

You guys have to understand the ebay buyer protection feature. It's easy to return if you don't get what you expect.
I bet this price jumps up on 12/3 after the MAP restriction is back in place.


12-01-2013, 02:34 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
I expect either you have either never bought from a Brooklyn Grey Market camera merchant or work for one. What ToyTank describes is an extremely common practice.

And the eBay buyer protection feature is a complete misnomer. Basically, what it does is automatically takes the money out of the seller's account without verification that a buyer's allegations are correct. In a sense, it is extremely anti-seller - at the first step, since eBay takes the buyer's word for it, no questions asked. The sword cuts both ways, though. All the merchant has to say is "the buyer didn't return everything I sent." Then the burden is on the buyer to prove this is untrue - which is almost impossible since you already sent your package out.

Then you lose your money. Then you get kicked off ebay for committing "fraud." And your negative feedback is removed. If the seller has bothered to file an ICCC report, then there is literally nothing you can do, since despite the official sounding name, the government's policy is to not actually investigate individual fraudulent transactions reported through the ICCCC.

If you don't think this happens, then spend some time reading the message boards on eBay. eBay does very little to protect either party. They do next to no investigating on their own, and the unscrupulous merchants - and customers - know this and know how to exploit all the loopholes. How do you think a merchant that has an under 30% rating from ripoff report can maintain a 99+% feedback?
dcshooter... a good post describing what to watch out for, thanks.

I can't find on pentax web site list of authorized dealers. just one page to enter zipcode which if not exact returns nothing, not even near dealers, looked very unhelpful.
12-01-2013, 02:37 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by si_film Quote
Where do you see "instead of", it says in the box all the pentax items that come in the K-3 box. The battery and charger are cheapie extras.
Let's no try to spread unfactual information.

I did not see the fine print that states it comes will original accessories.

Thank you for answering my question, and you realize my post was clearly a question, not spreading an "unfactual" information.
12-01-2013, 02:38 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by si_film Quote
I think the ebay feedback at 99.1% is fine, you'll have nitwits leaving negative feedback because priced dropped after they bought something as an example.
With ebay buyer protection it's easy enough to return if you don't get what you expect.
99.1% is actually pretty bad for ebay except for Chinese sellers as they get more "it took too long" complaints that aren't their fault...
12-01-2013, 03:03 PM   #23
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Everyone should just steer clear of this, for reasons mentioned above. It's not worth the risk of getting a grey market POS to save $200. Either save up the extra coin or wait until the prices start dropping and buy from a reputable outfit. Adorama & B&H come to mind

12-01-2013, 03:07 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by ToyTank Quote
I did not see the fine print that states it comes will original accessories.

Thank you for answering my question, and you realize my post was clearly a question, not spreading an "unfactual" information.
On the "in the box" tab about halfway down the listing, this matches the B&H in the box items..
  • PentaxK-3 DSLR Camera (Body Only)
  • D-LI90 Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery Pack (7.2V, 1860mAh)
  • K-BC90 Battery Charger Kit for K7 Digital SLR Camera
  • O-ST132 Strap for Pentax K-5 II DSLR
  • Hotshoe Cover FK
  • Eyecup FS
  • SLR Body Mount Cover
  • Finder Cap ME
  • MF-60 AF Standard Focusing Screen
  • PC Socket Cap
  • Software CD-ROM



People are piling on here, but hey no problem, good to be careful.
I look at their other listings, seem reasonable, proper pricing.
I think lower price due to map lifting this weekend.
12-01-2013, 03:10 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by shaX 07 Quote
Everyone should just steer clear of this, for reasons mentioned above. It's not worth the risk of getting a grey market POS to save $200. Either save up the extra coin or wait until the prices start dropping and buy from a reputable outfit. Adorama & B&H come to mind
Well even if gray market, calling it a "POS" is not called for. For some people 200 to 300 savings is worth the risk, that's not an insignificant amount.
12-01-2013, 03:15 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by apisto Quote
I agree that 99.1% is not terrible. My point was the specifics of some of the complaints. Such as cameras sold being grey market, so the customer was not able to get warranty service. This would be a concern that could crop up for the unwary after the return period has ended.
Actually, 99.1% can be terrible. It seems that ebay really doesn't like a buyer to post negative feedback and they have subtle ways to get you to retract the feedback. I had a problem with a cell phone I purchased on ebay about 5 years ago and it was a total fiasco from the get go and the seller had a 99.4% rating. When I demanded they replace the misrepresented item they refused. I got ebay and Pay Pal involved. Eventually, ebay, Pay Pal and the seller demanded I remove the negative rating in exchange for getting what they should have given me in the first place. The seller even threatened to sue me if I didn't remove the rating and give them a favorable rating. When I complained to ebay and Pay Pal they said they couldn't intervene. I had to fight to get the product I ordered and actually post a positive rating on order to prevent major headaches. I have not ordered anything from ebay since then.
12-01-2013, 04:30 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by WVRICK Quote
Actually, 99.1% can be terrible. It seems that ebay really doesn't like a buyer to post negative feedback and they have subtle ways to get you to retract the feedback. I had a problem with a cell phone I purchased on ebay about 5 years ago and it was a total fiasco from the get go and the seller had a 99.4% rating. When I demanded they replace the misrepresented item they refused. I got ebay and Pay Pal involved. Eventually, ebay, Pay Pal and the seller demanded I remove the negative rating in exchange for getting what they should have given me in the first place. The seller even threatened to sue me if I didn't remove the rating and give them a favorable rating. When I complained to ebay and Pay Pal they said they couldn't intervene. I had to fight to get the product I ordered and actually post a positive rating on order to prevent major headaches. I have not ordered anything from ebay since then.
That's unacceptable! This would mean those 99.1% COULD truly be terrible.. as the only people posting (and keeping) negative reviews would be the ones not getting a working item (and never getting a working item as 'payback' for the negative review). yikes!
12-01-2013, 04:55 PM   #28
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The biggest problem is that ebay has made the feedback system useless for both parties. I buy and sell a lot of stuff on there, and have been frustrated in both roles. On the seller's side, eBay has simply removed the option to give feedback, so a buyer can use feedback to extort a seller. While they supposedly have feedback extortion protections, they literally won't find feedback extortion unless the buyer specifically states that they will give negative feedback unless a concession given. So "It would be a shame if I had to give you negative feedback. Why don't you refund me some money?" is A-OK.

And it sucks for the buyer because it really doesn't mean anything. If I sell 100 products a year and one customer decides to give me a negative feedback because of a delay in the mail, my rating will be 99%. This is a real problem for honest small sellers, since many buyers won't buy from anyone less than 99.5%. But if I'm a big seller, it takes a lot more negative feedbacks to bring my number down. And ebay has an algorithm that actually sweeps out negative feedbacks if they are judged to be "out of character." Of course, in order to establish whether they are in character or not, you have to sell a lot of items. So small sellers are disproportionately dinged, while large sellers have their ratings artificially increased!

Then of course there are all kinds of 3rd party feedback games being played by both sides. As far as sellers go, the best way to judge is really to look at previous buyers' feedback to see what they have said about similar purchases elsewhere, and to discount anything that looks generic.

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
That's unacceptable! This would mean those 99.1% COULD truly be terrible.. as the only people posting (and keeping) negative reviews would be the ones not getting a working item (and never getting a working item as 'payback' for the negative review). yikes!
12-01-2013, 05:02 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
The biggest problem is that ebay has made the feedback system useless for both parties. I buy and sell a lot of stuff on there, and have been frustrated in both roles. On the seller's side, eBay has simply removed the option to give feedback, so a buyer can use feedback to extort a seller. While they supposedly have feedback extortion protections, they literally won't find feedback extortion unless the buyer specifically states that they will give negative feedback unless a concession given. So "It would be a shame if I had to give you negative feedback. Why don't you refund me some money?" is A-OK.

And it sucks for the buyer because it really doesn't mean anything. If I sell 100 products a year and one customer decides to give me a negative feedback because of a delay in the mail, my rating will be 99%. This is a real problem for honest small sellers, since many buyers won't buy from anyone less than 99.5%. But if I'm a big seller, it takes a lot more negative feedbacks to bring my number down. And ebay has an algorithm that actually sweeps out negative feedbacks if they are judged to be "out of character." Of course, in order to establish whether they are in character or not, you have to sell a lot of items. So small sellers are disproportionately dinged, while large sellers have their ratings artificially increased!

Then of course there are all kinds of 3rd party feedback games being played by both sides. As far as sellers go, the best way to judge is really to look at previous buyers' feedback to see what they have said about similar purchases elsewhere, and to discount anything that looks generic.
All reasons to just shop with reputable sellers. Adorama, Amazon (Meaning Amazon themselves, not 3rd party sellers through Amazon), B&H, Hunt's. That's where the bulk of my stuff comes from.
12-01-2013, 05:02 PM   #30
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That is unacceptable too! It makes me think twice about doing business on ebay with such shenanigan rules in place.... wow. Where is their competition? Monopoly?
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