[miniman82]

Just thought I'd share a nearly painful story, and raise some battery awareness. We all use them, and it's one of my duties at work to make sure people know what to do, so I though I'd share.


Today, I needed to take a macro shot of some car parts to help do some explaining for someone on another forum. Natually, out comes the Pentax system with the Sigma 18-50 2.8 macro mounted.

I couldn't get a decent shot of the part (a close shot of a turbocharger), because the Sigma lens is just long enough to cause vignetting with the inbuilt flash. So I take out yon Promaster flash (I know, I'm cheap ), slap some made in China NiCads in it, and proceed to take the shot. But something's wrong- flash isn't firing.

My first reaction was I got ripped off by Promaster, because I didn't get 10 shots out of their penny pincher flash! But I could still hear it 'juicing up' (you know, the whine they make?)-the ready light just wasn't coming on. I say OK to myself, and assume that the batteries probably just need to be charged.

I pop the battery cover off the flash, and dump the batteries into my hand- BIG MISTAKE! Turns out some of the plastic 'wrapper' that forms the outside case of the batteries (an insulator) had rubbed off, and was allowing a couple batteries to touch each other, resulting in a short.

The batteries had gotten so hot, that by the time I took them out (maybe 2 minutes tops), not only did I get a minor burn from the batteries themselves, but molten solder from the circuit board inside the flash (which was melted by the heat from the batteries!), and the battery springs came out onto my bare hand as well!!!!

Needless to say, I cursed and threw the offending batteries to the other side of the room in shock. Once I got my bearings about me, I remembered that a hot battery is a potentially explosive battery as well. I didn't have much time to react, so I grabbed a nearby shop rag, threw the batteries into a box, and heaved the box out the front door. I figured it would be best if they exploded outside the apartment, away from human flesh.

After about 30 minutes, I peered outside. Nothing untoward happening, so I found the box, and tested the batteries for temperature. They were cool, and I was quite relieved-crisis averted for now. I still need to dispose of the batteries, so that means a trip to hazmat next working day.



That's the story, now here's the awareness.

Would you know what to do in the event of an overheating battery, or if you got acid on your skin or (God forbid!) in your eyes?

At work, we have contingencies for such occasions. Not all of them are applicable to the home environment, so I'll pass on what I can.

First off, you have to know what kind of battery you're dealing with. At the time of the incident, I had a mix of NiCad (Nickel Cadmium) and NiMH (Nickel Metal Hydride) batteries in my bag- shame on me. I should know better. The emergency proceedures for different battery types are -duh- different! That means if someone tried to neutralize a chemical burn on my skin and used the agent for a NiCad when I was using NiMH batteries, it may have made the situation worse!

Point #1: Make sure all of the batteries in your bag are of the same type. You're not supposed to mix them in the same device anyway, and keeping only one type of battery will not only prevent you from harming yourself, but keep others from inadvertantly harming you by trying to help you out in the event of spilled acid.

Second, you have to have the right neutralizing agents available, in case you get some acid on you. Fortunately, they are household items, and you can buy them at any store if you don't already have them. Also, a way to deal with hot batteries is a good idea.

For NiCad batteries, you will neutralize acid spills with a 50/50 mixture (by volume) of vinegar and deionized water. The proceedures for most other batteries is flush with lots of water, and call a doctor.

Remember that if the acid is on your skin, you need to flush the area with water for at least 15 minutes after neutralizing, and then seek medical help. If it's in your eyes, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE THE NEUTRALIZING SOLUTION! Flush the area with water, and immediately call 911! Swallowed some? OK, you're most likely a friggin retard, but immediately call 911 and your local poison control center! Do not assume that because the burn is subsiding, you're going to be OK-let the doctor make that decision.

Point #2: If your dealing with batteries, you're also dealing with their potential hazards. No one thinks it will happen to them, but it happened to me and I'm telling you- it's the worst feeling to know that a battery could explode and spew acid all over your apartment at any given second! BE PREPARED. Most people will have vinegar in their home, but you can go one step farther- have a spill kit. It doesn't need to be anything fancy or over the top- just a clearly marked jug with premixed neutralizing agent in it, preferably in an easily accessable place. If the batteries are hot and you think they might blow up, stick them in a bucket of cold water away from anyone (or thing) that might be harmed in the event they do blow. If you can't do that, throw a wet towel on top of them. That will help make sure that if they blow, the acid stays in a relatively controlled and small spot.

Thirdly, make sure those in your family know the proceedures for impending battery doom. It's one thing for me to know what to do, but what if this had happened to my son/daughter? Would they know what to do? Knowledge is power, and it could save your skin, vision, or possibly your life.

Point #3: If its important to you, post the MSDS for batteries in use in your home, along with the emergency response proceedures and telephone numbers to call. That makes sure even a small child can help you, if for some reason you become incapacitated.

Here's the MSDS's (Material Safety Data Sheets) for some common types of batteries, if someone wishes to learn some more about them/post them up in their home.

NiCad
NiMH
Lithium Ion
Alkaline

Thank you, and have fun safely taking pictures!

[miniman82]

Light at the end of the tunnel- I was able to repair the flash by soldering the battery springs back in, and giving it a good cleaning. In the future, I will inspect my batteries before I use them, and remove and place them in my home made battery containers when not in use. That will also prevent battery goo from forming in my battery compartment.

[wlachan]

Some years ago my cousin's Gameboy was not working and came to me. Luckily for him as one of the batteries was found getting warm and I popped it off instantly and reloaded it with my favour brand alkaline AA and the Gameboy was working fine again. Needless to say I have no confidence in bargain batteries no matter how cheap they are.

[JCSullivan]

How do you tell a NiCAD apart from a NiMH

[Ash]

Yep, I've had my turn with cheap rechargeables - never again.
Thanks for the post.
The type of battery should be indicated on the battery itself - or it's probably not worth testing on your 540 flash!

[miniman82]

The type of battery should be indicated on the battery itself.

Right, it'll normally have some kind of marking on it stating what type it is. Went to Sears and bought a new set of Die Hard NiMH 'chargables, and a charger. At least now if they blow up, I'll have a 1 year insurance policy!

[barondla]

Great info miniman82. Never knew how to neutralize different types of batteries. One of your cautions does present a problem. How does a K10/20D(lith-ion battery) owner carry a 360 0r 540(aa nimh) flash in the bag? Two different power sources are supposed to be a no no. . My bag has 4 Li50 batts in it and 12 Sanyo Eneloop nimh AA. That could really do something.
On a side note do you have any idea what Sanyo changed to make their Eneloops have very little memory? They still say nimh. Sure work better than batts of old. Would never be without them. Do you think your recommendations for nimh apply to them?
thanks
barondla

Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #9 Winners. Enter #10.

[miniman82]

Great info miniman82. Never knew how to neutralize different types of batteries. One of your cautions does present a problem. How does a K10/20D(lith-ion battery) owner carry a 360 0r 540(aa nimh) flash in the bag? Two different power sources are supposed to be a no no. . My bag has 4 Li50 batts in it and 12 Sanyo Eneloop nimh AA. That could really do something.

Dammit! How come everytime I type a long winded reply, I get kicked off, and asked to re-enter my info even though I obviously already have????


Here I go again, shorter this time....



OK, flashes typically operate on 4 cells connected in series. This provides 6 volts to the flash, since each alkaline cell is 1.5 volts. With NiMH/NiCAD, you end up with 4.8 volts, because each cell is only 1.2 volts. A Li-Ion AA cell is about 3.6 volts, so if you only used 2 of them, you'd have 7.2 volts. 4.8 volts is 80% of 6, and 7.2 is 120%. That's 20% on each side of 'normal' operating voltage for a normal 4 cell flash, so I doubt there would be any damage. If anything, the flash would charge up faster, due to the increase in voltage.

Anyone want to loan me a 360/540 to try out some mods? Of course I would replace it in the event of failure, and also foot the bill for the cells and charger if anyone out there is interested? If successful, it would mean less batteries to carry around (more room for LBA!!!!!), and also less charging time (since you can now charge twice the needed amount of cells to power your flash with a typical 4 cell charger).

PM me, or post up here if interested.

[miniman82]

Here's the URL for a AA battery vendor, in case anyone was curious. AA Li-Ion

[raz-0]

I was wondering why you would neutralize acid with another acid. It's because, according to the MSDS, the corrosive material is potassium hydroxide. A very caustic base. It's not a liquid, but a crystal. It's quite nasty, but at least in my experience with it, it's not quick like acid is, largely due to it being a solid. Also, from the sounds of the MSDS sheets, your risk is the fumes form the potassium hydroxide. That, if created in the right manner and quantity, is very nasty stuff as it works on your lung tissue rather than your much tougher epidermis. Priority number one if you rupture a battery is fresh air, not washing your hands. Rule number one while doing that is don't touch your eyes or any mucus membranes.

In ALL the MSDS sheets you listed, they recommend flushing with water. I'd concur with that as the only one that seems to have any acidic hazardous components are the li-ion batteries, and when they out-gas they also create caustic by products as well. Thus you want relatively neutral water.

Quite honestly, the only really hazardous batteries we deal with on a regular basis are lithium batteries. They are really mostly dangerous because of the temperatures achieved while out-gassing and the speed with which they can release all their energy. If one of them goes bad, you will KNOW not to touch it without being told. The important thing is fresh air and to put out any resulting fire.

ETA:

I also have a somewhat different opinion (or at least instructions) regarding battery safety.

1) In a particular cell size, don't mix chemistries for transport with the exception of primary, disposable alakalines. I.e. use NiCd or NiMh, not both. Do not mix chemistries AT ALL when in a device.

2) DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES mix lithium batteries with different impedances. This can cause one battery to become over drained before the device see's low power. This can be bad and cause out-gassing.

3) Try not to mix NiMh or NiCd batteries of differing charges. For transport (like in your camera bag) always have a means to keep "fresh" and "dead" batteries separated. Running a dead one in pair with a fresh one can overheat them just like a short. Because rechargeable lose charge simply with time, you can even run into issues with batteries that haven't been used in a device yet. This is why batteries like the eneloops are a good thing (tm).

4) DO NOT buy lithium batteries that are nor protected. Some cheaper 123A format cells are unprotected and unvented. That's bad. Rechargeable 123A cells are MOSTLY not protected. That is bad as well.

That being said, for most AA style batteries, the risk is primarily to the device they are in unless you surprise yourself like the OP did.

You don't need to instruct your toddler to douse daddy with the magic chemicals. If you see smoke, simply hold your breath till you open a window, and if you get anything on your skin rinse it off till you are bored out of your mind and don't touch your face until you do so.

[madbrain]

How do you tell a NiCAD apart from a NiMH

That should be stated on the battery itself.
NiCd and NIMH batteries need different chargers, so you better know which type they are.

[miniman82]

Quite honestly, the only really hazardous batteries we deal with on a regular basis are lithium batteries. If one of them goes bad, you will KNOW not to touch it without being told. The important thing is fresh air and to put out any resulting fire.

That's the most important thing to remember. In an emergency, chances are you won't remember what
to do step by step, but basic instinct will let you know! Hell, I got caught off guard and I'm trained in these
things!



So... no takers for the Li Ion Flash conversion idea, huh?

[philbaum]

Thanks to miniman and the other posters for useful precautions!!!.

I think something else is going on here. Heck, we've all used alkaline and NiCd batteries for years without this overheating thing happening. At least to me, what do i know.

But flashes require a lot of power, and if one is taking pictures rapidly, heat can build up.

My new Metz 48 manual says that if one takes 15 flashes in rapid succession, one must wait at least 10 minutes for things to cool down.

Does anyone practice this? retorical question. Power usage by all our electronic gadgets is going up and up. Heat can melt solder connections inside the batteries as well as outside as our OP just reported. looks like we really need to slow down flash shots if the equipment is not industrial quality.

BTW, i've bought the cheap batteries that COSTCO sells at a good price, AA primarily. I've lost a few AA flashlights when i opened up and found the outside shells of these batteries to be ruptured and the leakage ruined the container.. never found this before on name brand batteries. Don't store things for extended periods without occasional battery checks, or make sure you use only the best quality batteries for items rarely used.

Phil B.

[Entropy]

Great info miniman82. Never knew how to neutralize different types of batteries. One of your cautions does present a problem. How does a K10/20D(lith-ion battery) owner carry a 360 0r 540(aa nimh) flash in the bag? Two different power sources are supposed to be a no no. .

I think what the poster meant was two different AA (or other cylindrical cell) power sources is a no-no.

1) Never mix AAs of different chemistries in a device.
2) Try to avoid transporting AAs of different chemistries in the same case/bag/whatever as it increases the risk of violating rule 1)
3) Transporting different chemistries is OK as long as the physical properties of the batteries (shape/size) prevent rule 1) from being violated. This is the case with D-LI50s and AAs in the same bag. Similarly, carrying NiMH AAs and alkaline Cs/Ds should be OK - those alkalines won't fit in your AA devices, and you'd need special adapters to accidentally put the AAs in a C/D device.

[miniman82]

^ yeah, that's it! You don't want different batteries in the same device, big no-no! I was suggesting the Li Ion flash conversion for those that are OCD enough to worry about having the same batteries in their bag. I don't care about it too much (I only have NiMh anyway), but it doesn't look like anyone else is worried.