[interested_observer]

When I am traveling on business, I like to take my camera and venture out in the evening, so night photography has become one of my primary interests. So, I was over in San Diego and had my very recently acquired K20 and was using the 16-45 along with a wired remote. I had thought this shot through (or so I thought) - I lugged my tripod, turned off SR (and I am left wondering if it actually makes a difference - it never really did on my k100), wanted the best image quality so went with ISO 100, used f4 due to the light levels, and focused near infinity (which is I believe my mistake - going back to the DOF calculator the hyperfocal distance is 16 feet).

Anyway, I like the images very much, I just wish it were a bit sharper (and sharpening does not help, it just adds noise). The only PP I did was to apply a lens correction - which cleaned up the vast majority of the items. I took several shots varying the time from about 8 seconds to 15 seconds (using the 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand) in "B" bulb mode, and just noted as I quickly viewed them, that there is some shifting of the boats at their moorings - so the minor movement could account for that.

I think that going to the lens' sweet spot of f5.6 to 11 would have just elongated the shutter time, only adding more movement. Adjusting the focus I think is the only area that I need to attend to (next time). And make a hyperfocal distance reference card so that I know what to back the focus to. - having the camera display it on the rear screen would be a giant plus here.

... Anyone else have some suggestions?

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[Ahab]

Can't really help you, but I like your images. Like sailboats too!

[Ash]

It has a smooth overtone and could become a great shot with some work.

Yeah, I'd say go back with your camera turned to Av mode with ISO 200-400, lens stopped down to f/7.1-11 or so (no wider than f/6.3) since this is where you'll get maximal sharpness, and of course, keep your tripod steady.

Let the camera autofocus, or be sure your manual focusing gives you the focus confirmation beep before releasing the shutter. Then check your results on screen to see that you don't get any 'meaningful' clipping on the histogram (you want all the details of the ship and sky, but don't worry about the clipped highlights from the bright night lights).

[Marc Sabatella]

Probably a combination of focus and camera shake. You're almost definitely focused way too far behind your subject, and while you used a tripod, you didn't mention using the 2-second timer for mirror lockup (which would have turned SR off automatically, too), nor did you mention how sturdy the tripod is. Cheap plastic tripopds are little better than handheld - perhaps even worse if you don't use the 2-second timer.

[interested_observer]

Thanks for the comments, suggestions and observations - also the encouragement that the shots are reasonably worthwhile.

Yes, the tripod is a cheap plastic travel one - that I am looking to replace for the last year or so. I also need to acquire a ball head and probably an L release plate. I have a size restriction on the luggage - again recommendations would be very welcome. I have been dithering over a ball head & plate setup or a pano head arrangement. Probably going with the straight ball head, since for me a pano head is not really justified.

On the 2 sec mirror lockup- I just plain forgot. It's something I always used on my K100, and one of my complaints on that body as you can not have the 2 second delay engaged along with the bracketing - hence one of the reasons for the upgrade to the K20. The K20 was new enough that I had not gotten that far. With that in mind - I am thinking I should possibly just leave SR on.

Using a higher ISO would certainly help with the shutter time, however the f stop would probably negate it. Stopping down would certainly help with the sharpness.

Another thing that I am kicking myself on - now, is that I should have taken another round of images using the 12-24, since it was in my bag - just thought of that now. Since I was sitting at 20mm, both lenses would have worked, and I would have had the ability to compare and choose on sharpness. Also the 12-24 is a much sharper lens overall - come to think of it, the 12-24 would have been a much better selection. I had actually had to switch earlier in the evening, since it was too wide, otherwise it would have been on the camera already.

Wonderful suggestions!!!!

[timtaw]

Night shots are an art. Besides a photo nut I am also a CCTV security installer. When I am installing security cameras I always have to come back at night to adjust the focus. The camera can look great in daylight but if the focus is not dead on the night picture will look like it's out of focus. Especially, If they have the cut filter for for IR. I would think that you might try using manual focus. I have done this and it seems to work well for me.

Just my thoughts.

[philbaum]

I think you're right, it was the infinity focus that messed you up on these. Typically, many lenses allow the focus to travel a bit beyond infinity introducing a little fuzziness from that.

Once i have my tripod up, i manually focus about 1/3 of the way into the picture so i get that hyperfocal thing working. Then i turn off AF and work with that one focus setting. Also can use the AF button with half shutter focus turned off in the Custom menu.

Unless i need a faster shutter to freeze some motion, then i always use ISO 100 or 200. Using higher ISO's makes the image more sensitive to bringing up noise during pp. It could be that wave motion or wind was moving those masts and rigging, but it looked pretty calm. I think the primary culprit is the focusing.

I used cheap plastic tripods for many months because i couldn't make up my mind about a quality tripod. Unless one has those spindly little tripods, the more full size plastic tripods don't do such a bad job if you use the 2 sec or 10 sec shutter opening. I have a quality tripod now, and i would be hard pressed to tell the difference in the shots between the quality tripod shots and the plastic tripods (oh oh, incoming ...) Don't get me wrong, i love my new tripod and find it faster to set up and have more assurance its not going to dump my camera on the ground, but i took some fine images with the plastic ones too :-)

Actually the sharpest image i ever got in the last 2 years was using my new tripod on a concrete sidewalk. Its important that the feet be on something solid :-)

As to lenses, i've used my FA-50mm the most often, tried my M135 a coupla times.

You've got a great start!

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Last edited by philbaum; 07-06-2009 at 11:43 AM.

[mithrandir]

I note that the water was not completely calm. This could have contributed to minute movement of the anchored/docked boats and some blurring over time.

[nanok]

i think the boats were moving, and that's your main issue. trying higher iso (which i otherwise would never do for night photography) might have helped, to some extent. another idea would be to go wide _and_ find some foreground which is not moving (like one of those things they tie the boats to, the english word escapes me at the moment), this might make the fact that the boats are moving irrelevant, as long as you have somethign sharp, it might even make it interesting . maybe even do that, stop down a bit and have a longer shutter time, so you get them obviously blured, instead of just "i think they're blured".

oh, one more thing: af lenses almost always are built to be able to go beyond infinity, if you focused on infinity like we used to do with manual focus lenses (untill the mechanical stop), you were beyond infinity, and nothing was really in focus (edit: i notice now phil also mentioned it)

other things, about tripod and such, have already been mentioned. keep at it, you hve a nice subject there
hope this helps

[KungPOW]

Stopping down will give the lights and highlights a nice sharp "star" look. Somewhere near f11.

[jstevewhite]

It looks to me as though, in the second image, you were actually focussed closer than the front boats - the lights on the horizon look more OOF than the front mast, and the water reflection in the middle lower left looks very sharp at this enlargement...

[brecklundin]

WONDERFUL shots...the lighting is just niiiice.

I agree with the others who mentioned the boats are moving. Even if the water were glass smooth, the boats would still be moving due to subtle micro-currents and tidal forces. So even if you did miss the focus I bet the boats would still be less than tack sharp. I think the first shot bears that out...that water is glassed and yet even with the focus, the boats are pretty uniformly 'fuzzy'. It's the ocean and the ocean is always in motion below the surface.

But, we all see every minute imperfection in our shots and agonize over them...yet the rest of us enjoy the shot for what it is...I really like the results. And you might be able to recover some edges using some of the sharpening techniques like USM, High-Pass filters and a couple other filters in Photoshop or other editing software. Might take a bunch of layers and a lot of fiddling with the transparency as well as masking but I think those shots are worth the effort, if for no other reason than the practice. Looks like FUN...hope ya give it a try.

BTW, glad I woke up and decided to take a peek at the board...thanks!!

[interested_observer]

I like the suggestions, all I have to do now is to see when I need to go over to San Diego again for business....

Yes, there was a bit of movement that I saw especially from one frame to the next when I was reviewing the shots.

Yes, I probably set the focus beyond infinity - and I should have back off for the hyperfocal length, However I just could not remember just how close it was. I'll know for next time.

Also, I'll use the 12-24 lens since it is much sharper.

I have tried some sharpening, but to no avail. However, a USM and a high pass filter might show some promise.

Stopping down with the mirror locked up should also help some...

I was shooting some fireworks on the forth and essentially broke my cheap plastic / aluminum tripod (ebay 4 years ago for 11 cents and $10 shipping) - the only deal I ever got. So I just ordered another one. A Benro 3lbs, comes with a ball head and release plate. So we will see how it works out. It should fit into my luggage.

I thought that I would toss in some other shots I took earlier in the evening. I actually took off the 12-24 as it was too wide and went to the 16-45, and I just kept the lens for the harbor shots.

These are at the Hotel Del Coronado - the gift shop if I remember right.

[TER-OR]

I am going to try to get some pictures of fireflies in the backyard. I haven't tried taking pictures in the dark with this camera (K-10D) yet. It should be interesting. I will select a dark spot of bushes where they hang out and see if I can't get some in action. I'll have to do some working to get focus correct, I presume.

It's been a good year so far for fireflies, so I'd like to give this a good try.

[Marc Sabatella]

Focusing on fireflies? Good luck with that! That seems like a worst case scenario for an AF system, particularly one that is not very fast in low light. I'd manually somewhere in the general vicinity of where you expect them to show up, then wait. Realistically, you're unlikely get a sharp picture of the firely itself - even is focus were perfect, the bright light would probably drown out any detail. Might be better off focusing on the background so at least *something* is in focus, and let the fireflies themselves be fuzzy bright specs. Perhaps even long exposure on tripod so they are actually bright *streaks* rather than just specs?

Anyhow, I'll be curious to see what you come up with. Unfortunately, we don't get fireflies where I live in Colorado.