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12-07-2010, 03:55 PM   #1
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Why Post is cheating in my mind...

I have just started a step in beginning a rebirth in photography. I had a lot of personal issues occur and stopped shooting after hitting a deep depression. My creativity had taken a turn bad....I had felt unoriginal and wanted to break every camera.

So I ended my film run with a Pentax -KX and it was a good camera to stop with. My first Digital SLR was a Canon Rebel back in 2k3.

I have not shot since that day and come back looking at photos online, everyone cheats....no one tries to use natural lighting....

Sure post processing is a cool concept, you can make the image be what you wanted it to be, but where is the skill? Where is the hunger for perfection anymore?

I have become a bit shocked as to how bad it really has become, anyone can go into photoshop and cheat now, it will be a dagger in the heart for photography as a skill.

Any idiot can go and use a Point and shoot and take a picture now, and go into photoshop and edit it, I think those of you who still use film will appreciate what I'm trying to argue here.

I want to relearn everything and use manual mode on the next digital I buy, which will most likely be a Pentax. I want to be as original as I can be, which will be difficult and I will never import images into photoshop to cheat with, I will take thousands of photos and pick the best ones. Sure it's going to the past, but it was more fun then....seeing a perfectly exposed and focused image was a joy in a darkroom. Now anyone can do it...


Last edited by thereturn; 12-07-2010 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Added more
12-07-2010, 04:57 PM   #2
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Another rebirth

I must agree with you at this point in my " Digital Evolution ", there
was a point where I would do a lot of Post.

This changed when I started using the old lenses on my KX, always used
the kit lens on auto before ( Nikon, Olympus cams ).
Now I am starting to recognize the nuances of the different lenses, Color,
softness, backgrounds.
Each has it's own personality.
Sure can be mimicked using the computer but never have that same " feel " to
the image.
Stopped Post after I saw the first 3D look from a lens. Just an old preset 135mm
Accura that cost around $20.00 including the new T to PK mount.

If you want to relearn manual mode and have access to a multitude of Old Glass
you are right with the Pentax !
12-07-2010, 05:07 PM - 1 Like   #3
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I think that you may have a distorted view of history when it comes to photography. Except for those among us who never stepped into a dark room. Even the acknowledged supreme artist in landscape photography, Ansel Adams, did most of his artistry in the dark room. Which means he manipulated the way the original negative was rendered as a final print.

In most aspects, that doesn't differ that much from the use of digital software to obtain the artists idea of what he/she wanted the scene to look like to the viewer. Photographic artistry doesn't stop with pressing the shutter button. Rather, it ends when the photographer renders a photograph that he/she envisioned when they pressed the shutter button.
12-07-2010, 05:40 PM - 1 Like   #4
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HDR with tone mapping must make you mental.
There are two reasons for post processing.
One is the "fix it in Photoshop" mentality, which I agree is lazy thinking at the time the picture is taken.
The other is using post processing as an extension of taking the picture in order to refine what you want, or even to hit on a particular look that is desirable.
I have no issues with the second, and I expend a lot of effort in post processing, though very little is of the fix it variety.

When I shot primarily B&W film, I spent a lot of time in the darkroom dodging, burning, using split contrast printing methods...whatever it took to get what I wanted into the print.
No one gave me grief for it, in fact I had a photographer one time make the trip from Vancouver to my neck of the woods a couple of provinces over, by Greyhound, so that I could print his gallery show for him.

Post processing is what you make of it, and it won't change a hack photographer into a master, but it will allow a good photographer to create a better image.
And isn't that what photography is about?

12-07-2010, 05:40 PM   #5
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it is not cheating it is work flow... getting the perfect print from film is much easier with a great film to start with... getting a great image from digital is much eaiser with a great file to start with... now it is much easier to get an ok photo from a so-so file than it is to get an ok photo from a so-so film... instant feedback comes to mind... has digital made me lazy... no... it has allowed me to experiment far more than I did with film...
12-07-2010, 06:17 PM   #6
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Hope you don't use any of the Contrast, Sharpness, Saturation, etc. settings in your camera either, as they are just very basic forms of the adjustments you make in post. But wait, you can't shoot a digital photo without doing that, can you? No matter what you do, you are going to manipulate it.
12-07-2010, 06:20 PM   #7
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Then Maybe some photographers are trying to freeze a moment in time as close to reality as possible in that instant , while the Artist is using post afterwards to bring it to how he saw it ?

I don't think there is a wrong or cheating just a different method of capturing life.
It is great the way Digital has allowed the possibility for anyone to choose this.

12-07-2010, 06:24 PM   #8
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I use post in my work to bring out/enhance the little details I see in a photo.
Like cloud detail and light shadow effects and some sharpening or noise reduction. It is no more cheating than a woman wearing makeup.

That being said.....a little makeup can enhance the beautiful features already there but too much and you end up looking like Tammy Faye Baker...eek!
I might also add I have seen some pretty sweet photos come out of a point and shoot.
12-07-2010, 06:27 PM   #9
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photoshop simply replaces darkroom work. I still shoot film when I can get access to the darkroom at school I spend a lot of time there simply because I enjoy the process. at its basic raw editing in photoshop is no different. I still only shoot in M mode, and have only recently started letting my lenses go to autofocus when I felt as though it may help.

also as said before, no amount of photoshop experience can turn a hack into a master.

A simple thought is, dont let what others do effect how you feel about photography. to me its the most relaxing thing ever, and if I start letting what others do effect my work all the fun would disappear.
12-07-2010, 06:32 PM   #10
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There is no cheating in enhancing the look of your already well captured image on your dSLR. Wheatfield's on the money distinguishing the two major groups of PP editors. PP should never aim to 'fix' an image, but rather accentuate what's already there.

We've had severa discussions in the past regarding what does and doesn't constitute PP, but ultimately the end result speaks for itself. The best images have PP applied to them *judiciously*, not extensively.
12-07-2010, 06:32 PM   #11
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Topic done to death. Good luck with the "I'm an in-camera processor" view. Whatever makes you happy.
12-07-2010, 06:58 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
Topic done to death. Good luck with the "I'm an in-camera processor" view. Whatever makes you happy.
+1

dead

... but I guess it has to come up every other week.

12-07-2010, 07:12 PM   #13
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QuoteQuote:
Any idiot can go and use a Point and shoot and take a picture now, and go into photoshop and edit it,
Most of the idiots I know can't even use PS.

I shoot raw so there is no in camera fixing. And I adjust them in my software of choice only to enhance the details. So, using PS or any other software is not cheating. As others have said, it's a lot like doing the same thing in a darkroom.

Last edited by photolady95; 12-07-2010 at 07:23 PM.
12-07-2010, 07:35 PM   #14
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Photography is still about envisioning the image before you compose and knowing how to dance with the light. PP simply gives us expanded and enhanced control over the finished product beyond what we had with slides and B/W negs. Personally, I wouldn't want to go back to the "good ol' days."
I prefer driving a car to riding a horse as well.
Just for fun, I like to go for a horseback ride once in a while, but when I really want to get somewhere, I drive.
12-07-2010, 07:39 PM   #15
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STOP STOP Everyone STOP... I think we killed him good! Maybe before anyone else goes for blood we should let him respond!

It was his first post ever... !?!?!

Shame on us for not saying welcome... glad to see you... interesting point that we have all thought of... here is our 2 cents.... but the beating a dead horse gif... maybe a bit much!

I have a roll of Kodak Gold 800 I will post to you to say sorry! I have a box of 50 I don't know what to do with, it doesn't fit in my SD slot!
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