41 Megapixel Nokia 808 smartphone camera

gazonk · 03-08-2012, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

That's exactly the kind of price shift I expect for full frame sensors too. Maybe, one needs a new player in the game to achieve this.

Very encouraging! I'm beginning to think that 24mp is only the start of a megapixel race also for APS-C, I just hope they don't increase the pixel count so fast that noise starts to increase and DR to degrade even for downsampled images.

Now the surrounding hardware and the software has to keep up as well. And the great thing is that Nokia shows that it can be done! While the-company-whose-name-shall-remain-unsaid disappointed somewhat yesterday with the 19mp limit for the iOS iPhoto, only slightly more than Adobe's 16mp limit. That's just not good enough when even consumer-oriented cameras like the Samsung NX200 have 20 mp.

Quote:

What's also stunning though is the read out speed Toshiba achieved: 1 billion pixels/s read out speed isn't bad at all. At that speed, one could read out 720p video at 1000fps

That's really impressive!

Smeggypants · 03-08-2012, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

This thread discussing lately if Nokia can compete on the smartphone market isn't entertaining.

Can't we just confine the discussion to how revolutionary the 808 is as a camera?

E.g., compared to the 808, I know of only one other technology which could compete: an array of lenses like a 3x3 array. It would even outperform the 808 and be slimmer too. But such a device doesn't exist and Nokia may or may not have discussed it.

I agree Falc. I certainly didn't come here to wade through crap about Apple phones

stylinred · 03-08-2012, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

Flickr: Camera Finder

Poor Nokia, it's not even on the camera phone list.

yeah it is.... its just after Nikon... anyway enough of that

Originally posted by falconeye

This thread discussing lately if Nokia can compete on the smartphone market isn't entertaining.

Can't we just confine the discussion to how revolutionary the 808 is as a camera?

E.g., compared to the 808, I know of only one other technology which could compete: an array of lenses like a 3x3 array. It would even outperform the 808 and be slimmer too. But such a device doesn't exist and Nokia may or may not have discussed it.

well Dinning said they looked at folded lenses and other types of tech but they weren't able to get a good balance of quality across the board; he also said they had some devices that were almost ready for release but the way the market shifted to thin phones they ditched those devices

It'd be really interesting to know what they have in their labs now

Nokia 808 PureView Sim Free | Unlocked Mobiles <<< a website lists the 808 for pre-order and availability on April 23 for $612 But never heard of them and some people ive talked to had bad experiences

Smeggypants · 03-08-2012, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by stylinred

well Dinning said they looked at folded lenses and other types of tech but they weren't able to get a good balance of quality across the board; he also said they had some devices that were almost ready for release but the way the market shifted to thin phones they ditched those devices

My littleSony TX-5 uses a folded lightpath. the sensor is in the bottom of the cam. The 808 high MP solution is much better IMO

Quote:

It'd be really interesting to know what they have in their labs now

Well considering the 808 took 5 years, yes it would be very interesting indeed

elho_cid · 03-13-2012, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

Were the hell did I say more sales mean a better camera ? I am saying for 99.9999% of smartphone buyers the iPhone 8mp/1080p camera is good enough. Show me a link were people are saying they will dump their iPhone for a Nokia because the camera is better.
Flickr: Camera Finder

Poor Nokia, it's not even on the camera phone list.

I'd expect quite another attitude from a pentaxian. Best selling doesn't mean it is really the best for everyone. And Pentax is one great example of this. I consider myself a fan of Apple, I love the Macbook Air. But I hated that I had to google for an unofficial iSync installation package to make the OSX Lion sync contacts with my phone. Because I do not care about the iPhone and I prefer N8 from Nokia.

That is what happens if you let one company dominate the market - the result wil necessarily be sub-optimal. As the Symbian was before iPhone and Android woke Nokia up from dreaming.

And 2 are not enough for healhy competition (look at Canon/Nikon). We need Nokia to make phones as we need Pentax to make cameras. Another approach, another perspective, fresh air to the market.

jogiba · 03-13-2012, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by elho_cid

I'd expect quite another attitude from a pentaxian. Best selling doesn't mean it is really the best for everyone. And Pentax is one great example of this. I consider myself a fan of Apple, I love the Macbook Air. But I hated that I had to google for an unofficial iSync installation package to make the OSX Lion sync contacts with my phone. Because I do not care about the iPhone and I prefer N8 from Nokia.

That is what happens if you let one company dominate the market - the result wil necessarily be sub-optimal. As the Symbian was before iPhone and Android woke Nokia up from dreaming.

And 2 are not enough for healhy competition (look at Canon/Nikon). We need Nokia to make phones as we need Pentax to make cameras. Another approach, another perspective, fresh air to the market.

If you looked at my post from Feb 29th you will see I would like the Nokia 41mp phone if it were available at Verizon.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/176969...ml#post1848005

K9-K5 · 03-14-2012, 05:10 PM

Hi from Newbie!

More, unretouched photos from 808. Not like sweet officials?
Still good as 5,6 and 8Mpix, but if interpolating p&s to same pixels, not better nor worse?

set 1
set 2
set 3

froeschle · 03-21-2012, 08:02 AM

Nokia 808 PureView Hands On Preview
Availability: 2nd quarter of this year

Nokia - Amateur Photographer

Quote:

[...] Dinning said that initial user feedback suggests that photographers will use the device as a 'second camera'. [...]
The phone's software has yet to be finalised, according to Dinning. [...]

8 ways the Nokia 808 PureView changes the way we take digital photos

falconeye · 03-21-2012, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by froeschle

Availability: 2nd quarter of this year

Thanks for the update.

Yeah, a lot of fresh thinking from Nokia here.

E.g., I like the Hyperfocal focus setting shown in the interview.

BTW, I had contact with one of the phone's inventors and somebody from Nokia actually left a response on my blog. So, these guys are pretty open minded and seem to be much more accessible to users and ideas than their colleagues in Japan.

elho_cid · 03-23-2012, 09:39 AM

And this is also interesting piece of info:
The Nokia 808 PureView and Dynamic Range

falconeye · 03-23-2012, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by elho_cid

And this is also interesting piece of info:
The Nokia 808 PureView and Dynamic Range

Interesting but trivial.

Dynamic range is in first order approximation a direct function of 35mm-equivalent base ISO. And I already wrote about that in my blog article. So, a larger sensor has better dynamic range.

However, I looked at the samples provided by Nokia, in particular into the black regions. And what I didn't talk about is that I found quite some fixed pattern noise (horizontal banding) Nokia isn't mentioning. It may be fixed in production cameras or not. I didn't talk about because it is still great dynamic range for a camera this compact and probably not worse than a Canon 7D.

I rather showed a moderate dynamic range usage example (HDR like) in my blog article. So, really nothing new here. My processed image is here: -> http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HCsBrrQ/0/O/i-HCsBrrQ.jpg

But I wouldn't particularly highlight dynamic range beyond the trivial fact that the sensor is huge for a mobile phone.

elho_cid · 03-26-2012, 08:43 AM

Banding is bad. It is the single worst thing about the Nokia N8 image quality. I hoped transition from CCD to CMOS would fix that, as I saw coming from K10D to K-5.

falconeye · 03-26-2012, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by elho_cid

Banding is bad. It is the single worst thing about the Nokia N8 image quality. I hoped transition from CCD to CMOS would fix that, as I saw coming from K10D to K-5.

I don't know the N8. I had to push blacks really hard to see the banding. E.g., in the DR example I linked with above, it isn't visible even in original size. It reminds me a bit of the 7D which has some banding in deepest shadows (if pushed heavily) too.

I think the Sony with column-parallel ADCs are the only sensors which are free of the symptom. And the 808 has no Sony sensor, so it probably is as good as it gets w/o Sony's help.

Mistral75 · 04-03-2012, 02:21 PM

"Some new camera samples taken by the upcoming smartphone from Nokia have surfaced in China."

New Nokia 808 PureView camera samples surface - GSMArena Blog

http://st.gsmarena.com/pics//12/04/pureview-china-samples/camera/gsmarena_001.jpg

http://st.gsmarena.com/pics//12/04/pureview-china-samples/camera/gsmarena_002.jpg

Smeggypants · 04-07-2012, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

"Some new camera samples taken by the upcoming smartphone from Nokia have surfaced in China."

New Nokia 808 PureView camera samples surface - GSMArena Blog

http://st.gsmarena.com/pics//12/04/pureview-china-samples/camera/gsmarena_001.jpg

http://st.gsmarena.com/pics//12/04/pureview-china-samples/camera/gsmarena_002.jpg

There's a whole gallery of them. some great examples.

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03-08-2012, 08:06 AM	#226
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by falconeye That's exactly the kind of price shift I expect for full frame sensors too. Maybe, one needs a new player in the game to achieve this. Very encouraging! I'm beginning to think that 24mp is only the start of a megapixel race also for APS-C, I just hope they don't increase the pixel count so fast that noise starts to increase and DR to degrade even for downsampled images. Now the surrounding hardware and the software has to keep up as well. And the great thing is that Nokia shows that it can be done! While the-company-whose-name-shall-remain-unsaid disappointed somewhat yesterday with the 19mp limit for the iOS iPhoto, only slightly more than Adobe's 16mp limit. That's just not good enough when even consumer-oriented cameras like the Samsung NX200 have 20 mp. Quote: What's also stunning though is the read out speed Toshiba achieved: 1 billion pixels/s read out speed isn't bad at all. At that speed, one could read out 720p video at 1000fps That's really impressive!

03-08-2012, 08:16 AM	#227
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Originally posted by falconeye This thread discussing lately if Nokia can compete on the smartphone market isn't entertaining. Can't we just confine the discussion to how revolutionary the 808 is as a camera? E.g., compared to the 808, I know of only one other technology which could compete: an array of lenses like a 3x3 array. It would even outperform the 808 and be slimmer too. But such a device doesn't exist and Nokia may or may not have discussed it. I agree Falc. I certainly didn't come here to wade through crap about Apple phones

03-08-2012, 02:01 PM	#228
stylinred New Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 19	Originally posted by jogiba Flickr: Camera Finder Poor Nokia, it's not even on the camera phone list. yeah it is.... its just after Nikon... anyway enough of that Originally posted by falconeye This thread discussing lately if Nokia can compete on the smartphone market isn't entertaining. Can't we just confine the discussion to how revolutionary the 808 is as a camera? E.g., compared to the 808, I know of only one other technology which could compete: an array of lenses like a 3x3 array. It would even outperform the 808 and be slimmer too. But such a device doesn't exist and Nokia may or may not have discussed it. well Dinning said they looked at folded lenses and other types of tech but they weren't able to get a good balance of quality across the board; he also said they had some devices that were almost ready for release but the way the market shifted to thin phones they ditched those devices It'd be really interesting to know what they have in their labs now Nokia 808 PureView Sim Free \| Unlocked Mobiles <<< a website lists the 808 for pre-order and availability on April 23 for $612 But never heard of them and some people ive talked to had bad experiences

03-08-2012, 06:05 PM	#229
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Originally posted by stylinred well Dinning said they looked at folded lenses and other types of tech but they weren't able to get a good balance of quality across the board; he also said they had some devices that were almost ready for release but the way the market shifted to thin phones they ditched those devices My littleSony TX-5 uses a folded lightpath. the sensor is in the bottom of the cam. The 808 high MP solution is much better IMO Quote: It'd be really interesting to know what they have in their labs now Well considering the 808 took 5 years, yes it would be very interesting indeed

03-13-2012, 04:24 AM	#230
elho_cid Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Prague Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by jogiba Were the hell did I say more sales mean a better camera ? I am saying for 99.9999% of smartphone buyers the iPhone 8mp/1080p camera is good enough. Show me a link were people are saying they will dump their iPhone for a Nokia because the camera is better. Flickr: Camera Finder Poor Nokia, it's not even on the camera phone list. I'd expect quite another attitude from a pentaxian. Best selling doesn't mean it is really the best for everyone. And Pentax is one great example of this. I consider myself a fan of Apple, I love the Macbook Air. But I hated that I had to google for an unofficial iSync installation package to make the OSX Lion sync contacts with my phone. Because I do not care about the iPhone and I prefer N8 from Nokia. That is what happens if you let one company dominate the market - the result wil necessarily be sub-optimal. As the Symbian was before iPhone and Android woke Nokia up from dreaming. And 2 are not enough for healhy competition (look at Canon/Nikon). We need Nokia to make phones as we need Pentax to make cameras. Another approach, another perspective, fresh air to the market.

03-13-2012, 06:15 AM	#231
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by elho_cid I'd expect quite another attitude from a pentaxian. Best selling doesn't mean it is really the best for everyone. And Pentax is one great example of this. I consider myself a fan of Apple, I love the Macbook Air. But I hated that I had to google for an unofficial iSync installation package to make the OSX Lion sync contacts with my phone. Because I do not care about the iPhone and I prefer N8 from Nokia. That is what happens if you let one company dominate the market - the result wil necessarily be sub-optimal. As the Symbian was before iPhone and Android woke Nokia up from dreaming. And 2 are not enough for healhy competition (look at Canon/Nikon). We need Nokia to make phones as we need Pentax to make cameras. Another approach, another perspective, fresh air to the market. If you looked at my post from Feb 29th you will see I would like the Nokia 41mp phone if it were available at Verizon. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/176969...ml#post1848005

03-14-2012, 05:10 PM	#232
K9-K5 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 33	Hi from Newbie! More, unretouched photos from 808. Not like sweet officials? Still good as 5,6 and 8Mpix, but if interpolating p&s to same pixels, not better nor worse? set 1 set 2 set 3

03-21-2012, 08:02 AM	#233
froeschle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 552	Nokia 808 PureView Hands On Preview Availability: 2nd quarter of this year Nokia - Amateur Photographer Quote: [...] Dinning said that initial user feedback suggests that photographers will use the device as a 'second camera'. [...] The phone's software has yet to be finalised, according to Dinning. [...] 8 ways the Nokia 808 PureView changes the way we take digital photos

03-21-2012, 08:26 AM	#234
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871 Original Poster	Originally posted by froeschle Availability: 2nd quarter of this year Thanks for the update. Yeah, a lot of fresh thinking from Nokia here. E.g., I like the Hyperfocal focus setting shown in the interview. BTW, I had contact with one of the phone's inventors and somebody from Nokia actually left a response on my blog. So, these guys are pretty open minded and seem to be much more accessible to users and ideas than their colleagues in Japan.

03-23-2012, 09:39 AM	#235
elho_cid Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Prague Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	And this is also interesting piece of info: The Nokia 808 PureView and Dynamic Range

03-23-2012, 03:59 PM	#236
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871 Original Poster	Originally posted by elho_cid And this is also interesting piece of info: The Nokia 808 PureView and Dynamic Range Interesting but trivial. Dynamic range is in first order approximation a direct function of 35mm-equivalent base ISO. And I already wrote about that in my blog article. So, a larger sensor has better dynamic range. However, I looked at the samples provided by Nokia, in particular into the black regions. And what I didn't talk about is that I found quite some fixed pattern noise (horizontal banding) Nokia isn't mentioning. It may be fixed in production cameras or not. I didn't talk about because it is still great dynamic range for a camera this compact and probably not worse than a Canon 7D. I rather showed a moderate dynamic range usage example (HDR like) in my blog article. So, really nothing new here. My processed image is here: -> http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HCsBrrQ/0/O/i-HCsBrrQ.jpg But I wouldn't particularly highlight dynamic range beyond the trivial fact that the sensor is huge for a mobile phone.

03-26-2012, 08:43 AM	#237
elho_cid Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Prague Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Banding is bad. It is the single worst thing about the Nokia N8 image quality. I hoped transition from CCD to CMOS would fix that, as I saw coming from K10D to K-5.

03-26-2012, 10:49 AM	#238
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871 Original Poster	Originally posted by elho_cid Banding is bad. It is the single worst thing about the Nokia N8 image quality. I hoped transition from CCD to CMOS would fix that, as I saw coming from K10D to K-5. I don't know the N8. I had to push blacks really hard to see the banding. E.g., in the DR example I linked with above, it isn't visible even in original size. It reminds me a bit of the 7D which has some banding in deepest shadows (if pushed heavily) too. I think the Sony with column-parallel ADCs are the only sensors which are free of the symptom. And the 808 has no Sony sensor, so it probably is as good as it gets w/o Sony's help.

04-03-2012, 02:21 PM	#239
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	"Some new camera samples taken by the upcoming smartphone from Nokia have surfaced in China." New Nokia 808 PureView camera samples surface - GSMArena Blog http://st.gsmarena.com/pics//12/04/pureview-china-samples/camera/gsmarena_001.jpg http://st.gsmarena.com/pics//12/04/pureview-china-samples/camera/gsmarena_002.jpg

04-07-2012, 10:01 PM	#240
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Originally posted by Mistral75 "Some new camera samples taken by the upcoming smartphone from Nokia have surfaced in China." New Nokia 808 PureView camera samples surface - GSMArena Blog http://st.gsmarena.com/pics//12/04/pureview-china-samples/camera/gsmarena_001.jpg http://st.gsmarena.com/pics//12/04/pureview-china-samples/camera/gsmarena_002.jpg There's a whole gallery of them. some great examples.