Mamiya M645 vs. Bronica ETRS questions

Steve Beswick · 12-31-2009, 07:42 PM

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I posted this same question over at photo.net, so I'm sorry if you have seen it before.

A month ago I was convinced that the early Mamiya 645 hardware was the way forward for me, but now I'm not so sure. How does the the Bronica ETRS hardware compare quality wise? I do admit that I kind of like the shutter in the lens aspect. Which system is heavier when equally equiped?

pingflood · 12-31-2009, 08:43 PM

If you're dead set on leaf shutter, there are some lenses in the Mamiya line that have it: 70/2.8, 55/2.8, 80/2.8 and 150/3.8 are available. I think they work on all 645 bodies.

Personally, I think Mamiya has better glass than Bronica, but the ETRS system is definitely nothing to sneeze at in any way. Hard to go wrong with either. I am guessing you know that Bronica went out of business a while ago while Mamiya is still kicking, but don't think that makes much of a difference when buying older gear anyway.

Steve Beswick · 12-31-2009, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by pingflood

If you're dead set on leaf shutter, there are some lenses in the Mamiya line that have it: 70/2.8, 55/2.8, 80/2.8 and 150/3.8 are available. I think they work on all 645 bodies.

Personally, I think Mamiya has better glass than Bronica, but the ETRS system is definitely nothing to sneeze at in any way. Hard to go wrong with either. I am guessing you know that Bronica went out of business a while ago while Mamiya is still kicking, but don't think that makes much of a difference when buying older gear anyway.

Yeah I know Bronica is dead, but I'm not likley to buy any new MF gear for a looong time. Maybe a couple of generations into the 645D, but it's not likley. I'm 90% interested in MF for b&w film, and another 9.99% color film.

ponyt27 · 01-01-2010, 02:00 AM

Hey Steve.... I`ve owned the Mamiya 645 & Bronica ETRSi,both great cameras.... tho the Bronica has to be my favorite with the leaf-shutter versatility. 645 was a bit easier to shoot... also lighter,but I truly had better pics with the ETRSi... excellent metering,great with PD prism finder combo,just a very nice camera overall.
Sold off my ETRSi about 3 years ago to finance my digital cravings.... wish I`d kept it !!! You won`t go wrong with either unit... best of luck with your choice.

Wheatfield · 01-01-2010, 09:24 AM

The Bronica isn't very shock resistant....

stevebrot · 01-01-2010, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

The Bronica isn't very shock resistant....

That must be the "boot test" I have heard so much about

Steve

Ratmagiclady · 01-01-2010, 07:12 PM

Yikes! More like the 'drop test'! Sad sight though.

I would say the systems are on a par for overall quality, in terms of results. Probably the Bronicas are built tougher, (been a long while since I've held one, ) and a lot of the ones you find out there kind of show it.

...the Bronicas can be *much* heavier than the old M645, (without interchangeable backs, the Mamiyas can be very light indeed for something like this if you don't have one of the bigger metered finders on there.) but I wouldn't consider the difference a deal-killer, by the time you load them up with grips and prisms.

The lenses are lovely, certainly.

Both fine systems, to my mind, I would have bought either one when I got my Mamiya. It came down largely to which I found a deal on, first. The tradeoffs for me came out about even on balance, considering my plans at the time.

(Mamiya has a couple of lenses to my taste, Bronica has the leaf-shutters and a 'rotary finder' option that would have been pretty useful to me. )

Steve Beswick · 01-01-2010, 09:16 PM

What do you mean by 'rotary finder'?

pingflood · 01-01-2010, 09:24 PM

It's a finder that rotates.

Basically the "eyepiece" portion of it swivels so you can use it in landscape or portrait orientation -- the eyepiece being 90 degrees angled from the camera.

patrickhh · 01-02-2010, 12:54 PM

The mamiya system has a 80/1.9

MRRiley · 01-02-2010, 03:36 PM

I voted for the Bronica over 30 years ago. Besides the leaf shutters, one of the biggest advantages to the Bronicas over the Mamiyas are Bronica's totally interchangable backs that have built in dark slides. Want to change film types, simply switch backs. Don't think the Mamiya 645's did that (at least they didnt when I bought back in the 70's).

I still have my original ETR and it still works like the day it came out of the factory. In fact I got a Epson V500 scanner for Christmas just so I can start shooting B&W with it again. Yeehaw!

Mike

Ratmagiclady · 01-02-2010, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by patrickhh

The mamiya system has a 80/1.9

This would be one of those 'couple lenses' of particular use to me.

I do not yet have one... will get to it, sooner or later, if I don't change systems.

Fast lens fiend that I am, very useful. I got good digital faster than expected, though, so I'm sort of reconsidering my MF film's role in my world, here.

Also, look at the 110, anyone who goes Mamiya 645 and likes people. This is much like shooting my old Canon 85 in 35mm, only you get more FOV. Is a thing of beauty.

Clicker · 01-02-2010, 10:00 PM

They both great brands, i myself have a mamiya 6 and know many who had/have both Bronica and Mamiya 645s and have never heard anything negative from either groups. You can scour Ebay for systems. Pentax's 645 i didn't like it's film back, great lenses but film changes were a pain in the halibut

Ratmagiclady · 01-03-2010, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Clicker

They both great brands, i myself have a mamiya 6 and know many who had/have both Bronica and Mamiya 645s and have never heard anything negative from either groups. You can scour Ebay for systems. Pentax's 645 i didn't like it's film back, great lenses but film changes were a pain in the halibut

Hee, yeah, there's advantage and disadvantage to the interchangeable backs, if you asked me. Capacity to switch films easily is really nice, but you have to carry all that stuff around to take advantage of it.

(Love those Mamiya 6 type cameras, too. I used to want a Plaubel Makina 6x7.

)

With Mamiya, I guess you can pretty easily have it both ways, though: the older models like the M645, 1000s, and J, have the non-interchangeable backs, and the Supers and Pros and TL's have the whole enchilada. (Bronica once made something similar to the M645, but that's an entirely different system. Real class, though. Took Nikon-made glass.

)

Steve Beswick · 01-06-2010, 01:34 AM

A quick update in case anybody is wondering:

Tonight I decided I could spend a lifetime trying to find solid gold bars for the price of lead, or I could just go for it and be happy with what I get. I chose the latter, and chose to go with Mamiya.

From KEH:
1 80mm f2.8 BGN grade lens, $43
2 645J bodies from the as-is stuff (a cool $15 pair of bookends if nothing else)
1 EX grade 45 degree focus screen, $9
1 BGN grade 120 insert, $11
1 1000s style rapid wind crank, only $5!

I also have a 150mm f3.5 Mamiya lens I picked up in december for $30 shipped and a $12 strap with the correct ends.

And (drumroll please) from ebay,
The worlds scariest 1000s!

I would have bought something a little nicer, but I like feeling that my camera is scratchable. I was a bit concerned at first looking at the pictures, but the seller has 100% feedback, so I decided to take a chance.

Any comments?

12-31-2009, 07:42 PM	#1
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	Mamiya M645 vs. Bronica ETRS questions Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here. I posted this same question over at photo.net, so I'm sorry if you have seen it before. A month ago I was convinced that the early Mamiya 645 hardware was the way forward for me, but now I'm not so sure. How does the the Bronica ETRS hardware compare quality wise? I do admit that I kind of like the shutter in the lens aspect. Which system is heavier when equally equiped?

01-01-2010, 09:24 AM	#5
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	The Bronica isn't very shock resistant.... Last edited by Wheatfield; 01-01-2010 at 09:29 AM.

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12-31-2009, 08:43 PM	#2
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	If you're dead set on leaf shutter, there are some lenses in the Mamiya line that have it: 70/2.8, 55/2.8, 80/2.8 and 150/3.8 are available. I think they work on all 645 bodies. Personally, I think Mamiya has better glass than Bronica, but the ETRS system is definitely nothing to sneeze at in any way. Hard to go wrong with either. I am guessing you know that Bronica went out of business a while ago while Mamiya is still kicking, but don't think that makes much of a difference when buying older gear anyway.

12-31-2009, 08:57 PM	#3
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736 Original Poster	Originally posted by pingflood If you're dead set on leaf shutter, there are some lenses in the Mamiya line that have it: 70/2.8, 55/2.8, 80/2.8 and 150/3.8 are available. I think they work on all 645 bodies. Personally, I think Mamiya has better glass than Bronica, but the ETRS system is definitely nothing to sneeze at in any way. Hard to go wrong with either. I am guessing you know that Bronica went out of business a while ago while Mamiya is still kicking, but don't think that makes much of a difference when buying older gear anyway. Yeah I know Bronica is dead, but I'm not likley to buy any new MF gear for a looong time. Maybe a couple of generations into the 645D, but it's not likley. I'm 90% interested in MF for b&w film, and another 9.99% color film.

01-01-2010, 02:00 AM	#4
ponyt27 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Medicine Hat,Alberta Posts: 68	Hey Steve.... I`ve owned the Mamiya 645 & Bronica ETRSi,both great cameras.... tho the Bronica has to be my favorite with the leaf-shutter versatility. 645 was a bit easier to shoot... also lighter,but I truly had better pics with the ETRSi... excellent metering,great with PD prism finder combo,just a very nice camera overall. Sold off my ETRSi about 3 years ago to finance my digital cravings.... wish I`d kept it !!! You won`t go wrong with either unit... best of luck with your choice.

01-01-2010, 12:30 PM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Wheatfield The Bronica isn't very shock resistant.... That must be the "boot test" I have heard so much about Steve

01-01-2010, 07:12 PM	#7
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Yikes! More like the 'drop test'! Sad sight though. I would say the systems are on a par for overall quality, in terms of results. Probably the Bronicas are built tougher, (been a long while since I've held one, ) and a lot of the ones you find out there kind of show it. ...the Bronicas can be much heavier than the old M645, (without interchangeable backs, the Mamiyas can be very light indeed for something like this if you don't have one of the bigger metered finders on there.) but I wouldn't consider the difference a deal-killer, by the time you load them up with grips and prisms. The lenses are lovely, certainly. Both fine systems, to my mind, I would have bought either one when I got my Mamiya. It came down largely to which I found a deal on, first. The tradeoffs for me came out about even on balance, considering my plans at the time. (Mamiya has a couple of lenses to my taste, Bronica has the leaf-shutters and a 'rotary finder' option that would have been pretty useful to me. )

01-01-2010, 09:16 PM	#8
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736 Original Poster	What do you mean by 'rotary finder'?

01-01-2010, 09:24 PM	#9
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	It's a finder that rotates. Basically the "eyepiece" portion of it swivels so you can use it in landscape or portrait orientation -- the eyepiece being 90 degrees angled from the camera.

01-02-2010, 12:54 PM	#10
patrickhh Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Hamburg Posts: 70	The mamiya system has a 80/1.9

01-02-2010, 03:36 PM	#11
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	I voted for the Bronica over 30 years ago. Besides the leaf shutters, one of the biggest advantages to the Bronicas over the Mamiyas are Bronica's totally interchangable backs that have built in dark slides. Want to change film types, simply switch backs. Don't think the Mamiya 645's did that (at least they didnt when I bought back in the 70's). I still have my original ETR and it still works like the day it came out of the factory. In fact I got a Epson V500 scanner for Christmas just so I can start shooting B&W with it again. Yeehaw! Mike

01-02-2010, 06:35 PM	#12
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by patrickhh The mamiya system has a 80/1.9 This would be one of those 'couple lenses' of particular use to me. I do not yet have one... will get to it, sooner or later, if I don't change systems. Fast lens fiend that I am, very useful. I got good digital faster than expected, though, so I'm sort of reconsidering my MF film's role in my world, here. Also, look at the 110, anyone who goes Mamiya 645 and likes people. This is much like shooting my old Canon 85 in 35mm, only you get more FOV. Is a thing of beauty.

01-02-2010, 10:00 PM	#13
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	They both great brands, i myself have a mamiya 6 and know many who had/have both Bronica and Mamiya 645s and have never heard anything negative from either groups. You can scour Ebay for systems. Pentax's 645 i didn't like it's film back, great lenses but film changes were a pain in the halibut

01-03-2010, 11:22 AM	#14
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Clicker They both great brands, i myself have a mamiya 6 and know many who had/have both Bronica and Mamiya 645s and have never heard anything negative from either groups. You can scour Ebay for systems. Pentax's 645 i didn't like it's film back, great lenses but film changes were a pain in the halibut Hee, yeah, there's advantage and disadvantage to the interchangeable backs, if you asked me. Capacity to switch films easily is really nice, but you have to carry all that stuff around to take advantage of it. (Love those Mamiya 6 type cameras, too. I used to want a Plaubel Makina 6x7. ) With Mamiya, I guess you can pretty easily have it both ways, though: the older models like the M645, 1000s, and J, have the non-interchangeable backs, and the Supers and Pros and TL's have the whole enchilada. (Bronica once made something similar to the M645, but that's an entirely different system. Real class, though. Took Nikon-made glass. )

01-06-2010, 01:34 AM	#15
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736 Original Poster	A quick update in case anybody is wondering: Tonight I decided I could spend a lifetime trying to find solid gold bars for the price of lead, or I could just go for it and be happy with what I get. I chose the latter, and chose to go with Mamiya. From KEH: 1 80mm f2.8 BGN grade lens, $43 2 645J bodies from the as-is stuff (a cool $15 pair of bookends if nothing else) 1 EX grade 45 degree focus screen, $9 1 BGN grade 120 insert, $11 1 1000s style rapid wind crank, only $5! I also have a 150mm f3.5 Mamiya lens I picked up in december for $30 shipped and a $12 strap with the correct ends. And (drumroll please) from ebay, The worlds scariest 1000s! I would have bought something a little nicer, but I like feeling that my camera is scratchable. I was a bit concerned at first looking at the pictures, but the seller has 100% feedback, so I decided to take a chance. Any comments?