How To Use "Catch In Focus" Feature

seachunk2 · 07-17-2010, 03:23 PM

Wanted to get familiar with the catch in focus feature on my K7.
I set the custom #35 to #2 setting. I focused into an area where I planned to have my dog walk into. I threw a treat into the area and of course Orzo happily went into the area to retrieve his treat. The camera didn't shoot the shot. I must be missing a step (or more or way off altogether).
How can I set up a simple test to get the feature to work?

**rparmar** · 07-17-2010, 03:43 PM

This works only if you hold down the shutter button. Sorry if you were aware of that, but you didn't mention it!

Since an AF lens in AF mode will auto-focus when you do that, it is only useful in manual focus mode. Also, I have found that some older lenses for some reason do not work with catch in focus.

JeffJS · 07-17-2010, 04:13 PM

Catch In Focus only works in AF-S mode and Center spot. The other two will allow the shutter to release regardless of focus, when using an MF lens. On the K20/K7 it works with K, M, or A type lenses without modification. With M42 lenses, apparently one must short contacts for it to work. With FA/DA type lenses, one must be able to disable the AF on the lens. CIF does not work on the K10d with the DA* lenses. Don't know about FA lenses with an AF disable though, never tried it.

Eruditass · 07-17-2010, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by JeffJS

Catch In Focus only works in AF-S mode and Center spot. The other two will allow the shutter to release regardless of focus, when using an MF lens. On the K20/K7 it works with K, M, or A type lenses without modification. With M42 lenses, apparently one must short contacts for it to work. With FA/DA type lenses, one must be able to disable the AF on the lens. CIF does not work on the K10d with the DA* lenses. Don't know about FA lenses with an AF disable though, never tried it.

It's a shame that CIF does not work on most modern lenses (many do not have AF/MF switch). To me, it's false advertising and a simple firmware fix would do the trick

JeffJS · 07-17-2010, 04:38 PM

Yes, It would be nice if AF could be turned off without going to MF. Since it's a mechanical user operated action though, I doubt that it could be done with Firmware (as it currently sits). The AF/MF switch on the camera engages and disengages the AF by retracting the screw drive on the camera. There's probably a switch inside the mechanism that tells the camera to shut off the screw drive when retracted (so the motor doesn't spin randomly). I'd love to be able to focus trap (CIF) my FA limited lenses.

I guess a way it Could be done is a CIF switch in the software. Allowing the user to turn it on or off when the camera is in MF. We still get focus confirmation when in MF and the camera could use that along with a CIF switch to allow it's use. I don't see that happening though, they don't give a way to turn off SDM for dual focus drive lenses and that's probably even simpler to do.

seachunk2 · 07-17-2010, 04:51 PM

Thanks for the replies. I had the K7 in MF and center focus. CIF didn't work with the 18-55 DA WR kit lens. I switched to a Soligor MF lens and that didn't work either. I then tried the same routine with the wireless remote control and still NG.
I don't have any other MF lenses (although an ebay purchase of a M 50mm 1.7 is on its way).
I just have the DA kit lenses that came with my K7 & Kx.
Does CIF work for any K7 owners with the DA's?

JeffJS · 07-17-2010, 05:08 PM

Catch In Focus:

1. Custom Menu 5 option 35 set to 2
2. Camera set for AF-S
3. Manual lens (M,K, A) on the camera or a lens that allows turning off the AF (DA* FA*).
4. Point camera towards object, press the shutter release completely, and turn the focus ring. When the camera detects focus, it will take the picture.

It ISN'T the fastest method on the planet and sometimes, pre-focusing on an area (your dog's treat) and being ready to fire the shutter in MF will get you better results. If you can get focus confirmation (In AF-S), CIF should work.

seachunk2 · 07-17-2010, 05:18 PM

Thanks JeffJS.
Ok, I should have an M lens by the end of next week and I'll try the CIF then.
I was just curious on how this feature works in case I ever really needed it.

RioRico · 07-17-2010, 07:54 PM

Almost any lens can be used with CIF. CIF depends on having a lens-mount contact shorted-out, among other things. Shorting contacts is completely safe. After enabling CIF and switching to AF.S, there are various ways to get CIF to work with various lenses.

1) Use a PK-mount MF lens with a shiny metal base. This shorts the contacts.

2) Use an M42 manual lens with an infinity-focus adapter. Before adding the adapter, put a piece of thin metal tape on the lens base so it shorts out the contact nearest the bottom (6-o'clock) position on the camera's lens mount.

3) Use an M39 or M42 lens with a flanged, non-infinity-focus adapter. Either use a shiny adapter, or file off the paint so it shorts that bottom contact. Do NOT use thin metal tape on a flanged adapter -- the adapter will jam onto the camera. Use the flanged adapter when you don't need infinity, as with portraits and close-ups.

4) Use a PK-mount AF lens with an M/A switch, set to M.

5) Use any PK-mount AF or MF lens; put a bit of metal foil in between the lens base and the bottom contact on the mount. Be careful when changing lenses; that foil can easily blow away in a breeze or otherwise go wandering.

hcc · 07-17-2010, 11:17 PM

I am not convinced that Catch in Focus (CIF) is most adapted to a dynamic shooting when the target comes toward you at relatively high speed. Instead, I would recommed to use MF Center focus and Hi continous shooting. Set the focus to a point mid-way between the target and you, and start to shoot earlier than later. You are lilely to get a couple of good shots depending upon the speed of the target.

Overall, the CIF is relatively slow and not always well-adapted to fast, dynamic shooting.

Hope that the comment will help...

RioRico · 07-18-2010, 06:34 AM

@hcc,
Your suggestion is good when using MF glass with fast dynamic subjects. But with slightly slower subjects, CIF and Continuous Shooting can happily be combined. Enable both CIF and CS; mount camera on tripod, with latching wired remote; aim and focus at a point you expect subject(s) to appear; latch the remote. Every time a subject reaches that point, the camera goes SNAP! and SNAP! again. This is a good technique for shooting birds, bike racers, burglars, etc. Stop-down the lens a bit for deeper DOF, and even faster subjects can be shot. NOTE: CIF might not work with a lens stopped beyond f/5.6-f/11, depending on focal length.

No, CIF isn't a high-speed option. But it can speed-up the accurate use of manual lenses. Without CIF my K20D shooting procedure is: frame, focus, wait for focus confirmation, shoot. But between getting confirmation and hitting the shutter, the subject or camera may have shifted. With CIF that delay is eliminated. I use CIF extensively for handheld closeups. And of my 75-odd Pentax-mountable lenses, only 5 are AF; the rest benefit from CIF.

**rparmar** · 07-18-2010, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by Eruditass

It's a shame that CIF does not work on most modern lenses (many do not have AF/MF switch). To me, it's false advertising and a simple firmware fix would do the trick

This has been on my suggestion list for a while.

But you can hardly call it "false advertising" unless Pentax was taking out full-page ads touting the feature!

RioRico · 07-19-2010, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by Eruditass

It's a shame that CIF does not work on most modern lenses (many do not have AF/MF switch).

As I mentioned, almost any lens can be used with CIF. With any PK-mount AF or MF lens, put a bit of metal foil in between the lens base and the bottom contact on the mount.

dlacouture · 07-19-2010, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by JeffJS

I guess a way it Could be done is a CIF switch in the software. Allowing the user to turn it on or off when the camera is in MF. We still get focus confirmation when in MF and the camera could use that along with a CIF switch to allow it's use. I don't see that happening though, they don't give a way to turn off SDM for dual focus drive lenses and that's probably even simpler to do.

Well, I'd love to see it added to the AF button, when in MF mode... It's useless in this mode anyway, so we won't lose anything...
Should be really easy to do, as in AF mode you can already set this button to start an AF cycle...

Eruditass · 07-19-2010, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by RioRico

As I mentioned, almost any lens can be used with CIF. With any PK-mount AF or MF lens, put a bit of metal foil in between the lens base and the bottom contact on the mount.

I know this, I've documented it quite vehemently in my firmware wishlist thread. There is no reason this could not be fixed in a firmware update (trivial with MF, an extra option somewhere for AF)

07-17-2010, 03:23 PM	#1
seachunk2 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New York Photos: Gallery Posts: 198	How To Use "Catch In Focus" Feature Wanted to get familiar with the catch in focus feature on my K7. I set the custom #35 to #2 setting. I focused into an area where I planned to have my dog walk into. I threw a treat into the area and of course Orzo happily went into the area to retrieve his treat. The camera didn't shoot the shot. I must be missing a step (or more or way off altogether). How can I set up a simple test to get the feature to work?

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07-17-2010, 03:43 PM	#2
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	This works only if you hold down the shutter button. Sorry if you were aware of that, but you didn't mention it! Since an AF lens in AF mode will auto-focus when you do that, it is only useful in manual focus mode. Also, I have found that some older lenses for some reason do not work with catch in focus.

07-17-2010, 04:13 PM	#3
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Catch In Focus only works in AF-S mode and Center spot. The other two will allow the shutter to release regardless of focus, when using an MF lens. On the K20/K7 it works with K, M, or A type lenses without modification. With M42 lenses, apparently one must short contacts for it to work. With FA/DA type lenses, one must be able to disable the AF on the lens. CIF does not work on the K10d with the DA* lenses. Don't know about FA lenses with an AF disable though, never tried it.

07-17-2010, 04:24 PM	#4
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	Originally posted by JeffJS Catch In Focus only works in AF-S mode and Center spot. The other two will allow the shutter to release regardless of focus, when using an MF lens. On the K20/K7 it works with K, M, or A type lenses without modification. With M42 lenses, apparently one must short contacts for it to work. With FA/DA type lenses, one must be able to disable the AF on the lens. CIF does not work on the K10d with the DA* lenses. Don't know about FA lenses with an AF disable though, never tried it. It's a shame that CIF does not work on most modern lenses (many do not have AF/MF switch). To me, it's false advertising and a simple firmware fix would do the trick

07-17-2010, 04:38 PM	#5
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Yes, It would be nice if AF could be turned off without going to MF. Since it's a mechanical user operated action though, I doubt that it could be done with Firmware (as it currently sits). The AF/MF switch on the camera engages and disengages the AF by retracting the screw drive on the camera. There's probably a switch inside the mechanism that tells the camera to shut off the screw drive when retracted (so the motor doesn't spin randomly). I'd love to be able to focus trap (CIF) my FA limited lenses. I guess a way it Could be done is a CIF switch in the software. Allowing the user to turn it on or off when the camera is in MF. We still get focus confirmation when in MF and the camera could use that along with a CIF switch to allow it's use. I don't see that happening though, they don't give a way to turn off SDM for dual focus drive lenses and that's probably even simpler to do.

07-17-2010, 04:51 PM	#6
seachunk2 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New York Photos: Gallery Posts: 198 Original Poster	Thanks for the replies. I had the K7 in MF and center focus. CIF didn't work with the 18-55 DA WR kit lens. I switched to a Soligor MF lens and that didn't work either. I then tried the same routine with the wireless remote control and still NG. I don't have any other MF lenses (although an ebay purchase of a M 50mm 1.7 is on its way). I just have the DA kit lenses that came with my K7 & Kx. Does CIF work for any K7 owners with the DA's?

07-17-2010, 05:08 PM	#7
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Catch In Focus: 1. Custom Menu 5 option 35 set to 2 2. Camera set for AF-S 3. Manual lens (M,K, A) on the camera or a lens that allows turning off the AF (DA* FA*). 4. Point camera towards object, press the shutter release completely, and turn the focus ring. When the camera detects focus, it will take the picture. It ISN'T the fastest method on the planet and sometimes, pre-focusing on an area (your dog's treat) and being ready to fire the shutter in MF will get you better results. If you can get focus confirmation (In AF-S), CIF should work.

07-17-2010, 05:18 PM	#8
seachunk2 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New York Photos: Gallery Posts: 198 Original Poster	Thanks JeffJS. Ok, I should have an M lens by the end of next week and I'll try the CIF then. I was just curious on how this feature works in case I ever really needed it.

07-17-2010, 07:54 PM	#9
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Almost any lens can be used with CIF. CIF depends on having a lens-mount contact shorted-out, among other things. Shorting contacts is completely safe. After enabling CIF and switching to AF.S, there are various ways to get CIF to work with various lenses. 1) Use a PK-mount MF lens with a shiny metal base. This shorts the contacts. 2) Use an M42 manual lens with an infinity-focus adapter. Before adding the adapter, put a piece of thin metal tape on the lens base so it shorts out the contact nearest the bottom (6-o'clock) position on the camera's lens mount. 3) Use an M39 or M42 lens with a flanged, non-infinity-focus adapter. Either use a shiny adapter, or file off the paint so it shorts that bottom contact. Do NOT use thin metal tape on a flanged adapter -- the adapter will jam onto the camera. Use the flanged adapter when you don't need infinity, as with portraits and close-ups. 4) Use a PK-mount AF lens with an M/A switch, set to M. 5) Use any PK-mount AF or MF lens; put a bit of metal foil in between the lens base and the bottom contact on the mount. Be careful when changing lenses; that foil can easily blow away in a breeze or otherwise go wandering.

07-17-2010, 11:17 PM	#10
hcc Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,001	I am not convinced that Catch in Focus (CIF) is most adapted to a dynamic shooting when the target comes toward you at relatively high speed. Instead, I would recommed to use MF Center focus and Hi continous shooting. Set the focus to a point mid-way between the target and you, and start to shoot earlier than later. You are lilely to get a couple of good shots depending upon the speed of the target. Overall, the CIF is relatively slow and not always well-adapted to fast, dynamic shooting. Hope that the comment will help...

07-18-2010, 06:34 AM	#11
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	@hcc, Your suggestion is good when using MF glass with fast dynamic subjects. But with slightly slower subjects, CIF and Continuous Shooting can happily be combined. Enable both CIF and CS; mount camera on tripod, with latching wired remote; aim and focus at a point you expect subject(s) to appear; latch the remote. Every time a subject reaches that point, the camera goes SNAP! and SNAP! again. This is a good technique for shooting birds, bike racers, burglars, etc. Stop-down the lens a bit for deeper DOF, and even faster subjects can be shot. NOTE: CIF might not work with a lens stopped beyond f/5.6-f/11, depending on focal length. No, CIF isn't a high-speed option. But it can speed-up the accurate use of manual lenses. Without CIF my K20D shooting procedure is: frame, focus, wait for focus confirmation, shoot. But between getting confirmation and hitting the shutter, the subject or camera may have shifted. With CIF that delay is eliminated. I use CIF extensively for handheld closeups. And of my 75-odd Pentax-mountable lenses, only 5 are AF; the rest benefit from CIF.

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07-18-2010, 08:21 AM	#12
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by Eruditass It's a shame that CIF does not work on most modern lenses (many do not have AF/MF switch). To me, it's false advertising and a simple firmware fix would do the trick This has been on my suggestion list for a while. But you can hardly call it "false advertising" unless Pentax was taking out full-page ads touting the feature!

07-19-2010, 01:59 AM	#13
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by Eruditass It's a shame that CIF does not work on most modern lenses (many do not have AF/MF switch). As I mentioned, almost any lens can be used with CIF. With any PK-mount AF or MF lens, put a bit of metal foil in between the lens base and the bottom contact on the mount.

07-19-2010, 05:07 AM	#14
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Originally posted by JeffJS I guess a way it Could be done is a CIF switch in the software. Allowing the user to turn it on or off when the camera is in MF. We still get focus confirmation when in MF and the camera could use that along with a CIF switch to allow it's use. I don't see that happening though, they don't give a way to turn off SDM for dual focus drive lenses and that's probably even simpler to do. Well, I'd love to see it added to the AF button, when in MF mode... It's useless in this mode anyway, so we won't lose anything... Should be really easy to do, as in AF mode you can already set this button to start an AF cycle...

07-19-2010, 10:23 AM	#15
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	Originally posted by RioRico As I mentioned, almost any lens can be used with CIF. With any PK-mount AF or MF lens, put a bit of metal foil in between the lens base and the bottom contact on the mount. I know this, I've documented it quite vehemently in my firmware wishlist thread. There is no reason this could not be fixed in a firmware update (trivial with MF, an extra option somewhere for AF)