Poll: What do we want from Pentax? Full frame? K Mount? Autofocus? etc.

selar · 01-03-2012, 06:10 PM

For those that voted to discontinue the K mount, what do you plan to do with all your K-mount lenses?

GibbyTheMole · 01-03-2012, 06:24 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Clinton

If they spurn us, I can almost guarantee it will be their biggest problem in the future.

Yep. I think it would be total corporate suicide. I probably shouldn't read these speculative user threads because they only make me paranoid as everyone else seems to be. Surely, Ricoh (who is no stranger to camera making) wouldn't have paid 124 million dollars for the Pentax name just to do something of epic stupidity to kill it by alienating the bulk of their customer base. I think the likely scenario is that they're going to carry on the tradition and improve on existing lines, but it takes time to get the ball rolling in that direction.

There is absolutely NO reason to change the mount. Nothing would be gained in doing so. Here's what I think would make sense for the new Pentax:

1) Introduce a Canikon killer. An improvement on the K5 with easily interchangabe focusing screens, maybe a detachable prism, (with other finder options) FF sensor, and excellent high ISO performance.
2) A full line of pro glass in all focal lengths at competitive prices to lure professionals to Pentax
3) Introduce a successor to the K-r. A subtle refinement to what made the K-x & K-r great.
4) Introduce a lower priced version of the Q.

See what happens for awhile and gauge the trends & go from there. In my opinion, there really isn't that big of a reason for a middle camera (K7) at the moment. The K7, while a very nice camera is the least important niche to cater to at the moment until they feel out the market. But I could be wrong, YMMV and all that...

Cheers,
Bobbo :-)

pinholecam · 01-03-2012, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by drougge

Or maybe that much less expensive, because of the modern lenses they will also sell to this customer, who would not have bought any lenses at all without a camera that supports his old ones?

I don't have any data on how this tends to pan out, do you? (Except myself, I care about uncrippled mount quite a lot, and having it certainly wouldn't have stopped me from buying the DA*50-135 last year, or the FA31 and FA77 the year before that.)

Same question, is this just something you think? I believe (also without any data to back it up) that they gain at least as much as they lose. Showing you care about your existing customers is never a bad thing in itself.

Your think as good as mine here I'm afraid.
There are plenty of folks here that still hold on to *ist; K200; K10 as 'THEIR BEST' and you still think they'd support the next new camera or buy new lenses?
You can check out the K5 sub-forum to find many of them.
A lot more Canikony fanboys on many other forums would just buy the latest and "greatest" (and the companies make money) that comes out rather than debate over LPMM; Moire; AA filter; and whatnot that happens here.
An expanded user base with a new mount will see more of such newer generation 'fanboyish' ppl support Pentax monetarily, be it buying the body only or some buying of Pentax lenses together with some of their M-mount; EOS; etc

Anyway, I did not suggest NO K-mount support. A K-mount adapter would certainly be good and ease the pain as well as a logical step.
So how does a K-mount only new MILC camera benefit Pentax?
Ppl might as well choose NEX, V1, m4/3 or NX cameras since nothing else can be mounted on such a Pentax K-mount MILC.

Originally posted by maxfield_photo

It's interesting, I thought there would be a lot more interest in improved wireless flash support, because compared to Canon, and especially Nikon, the Pentax flash control system is anemic. I gave it two votes, and one to higher flash sync speed.

For those who have never messed around with it, Pentax supports channels as it is now, but not zones. Zones allow you to control multiple lights independently of one another. So you could control a key light, a background light, a fill light, and even a hair light all from the back of the camera. If the background has it's own zone for example, and you see it's too dark, you can bump it up from the camera position without affecting the key light. Channels are only useful for shooting events with other photographers when you don't want your flash to be accidentally triggered by another flash going off. There's no way to trigger multiple channels at once.

This tells me that most Pentax enthusiasts (assuming the initial results are representative) either shoot manual flash, one-light setups, or don't use flash much at all. As popular as "Strobist" lighting has become, it looks like it hasn't caught on here yet.

Agreed. I missed out this option when I choose "Max flash sync speed" instead.
Looking at the demographics and type of photography done here and even on my local Pentax forum, I think 'strobing' has not caught on and much a strong point for Pentax.
Perhaps those interested in it did consider the systems and options and moved to Nikon/Canon right from the start.

markku55 · 01-03-2012, 11:20 PM

I do not know what would be better if Pentax change the K-moun to something else?
Why could not Pentax make a mirrorless frame and then an adapter for K-mount like Sony do for A-mount/NEX?
It is really expensive to construct a complete range of new lenses, rather construct in first place an adapter and some most important lenses, I'm sure that the Sony way is the right.

**Digitalis** · 01-03-2012, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

3 votes for discontinuing K mount. It's time to move on. I'd like to see what they can do without the burden of backward compatibility.

And that would effectively kill off a large portion of pentaxes' cut of the market share. Changing the lens mount seriously cramped hasselblads' style, many pros went to Phasemiya or the Sinar Hy-6 - and the pentax 645D, and let us not forget what happened when Canon switched from FD to EF.

Those who forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them. And the current Digital SLR camera market there isn't much room for mistakes - it is too cutthroat, even Canon couldn't pull off that kind of a stunt without having even more people switch to Nikon.

Fogel70 · 01-04-2012, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Clinton

If they spurn us, the negative publicity will be their biggest problem in the future.

Why would they? K-mount will be Pentax biggest market the next 10 years, but if they don't evolve it will be the only thing they have. Pentax small sensor P&S will probaby have no real future as smartphones will replace most of that market.
P&S with bigget sensors (with fixed or interchangable lens) is probably a market that will grow considerable in the future and something Pentax want to be part of.

You don't think Pentax negative publicity enough already as being "a brand without furure", that get sold off every few years, and the only new thing Pentax can come up with are new colors, and a mirrorless system that no one wants.

**Digitalis** · 01-04-2012, 01:53 AM

Another thing would be pentax producing a camera without an AA filter... Leica has done well with the FF M9, I think it is time we got rid of the damn things - or at least provide the option for the user to remove it.

Alizarine · 01-04-2012, 02:22 AM

I'd like to see an AF digital version of the Pentax LX (or a class like that)

**Digitalis** · 01-04-2012, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by Alizarine

I'd like to see an AF digital version of the Pentax LX (or a class like that)

+1 especially if it had a 24Mp monochrome sensor, user removable AA filter, interchangeable viewfinders and a non-crippled KAF-mount.

Fogel70 · 01-04-2012, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

+1 especially if it had a 24Mp monochrome sensor, user removable AA filter, interchangeable viewfinders and a non-crippled KAF-mount.

This type of specifycation is probably more likely to come as a GXR-module with M-mount.

**Digitalis** · 01-04-2012, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by Fogel70

This type of specifycation is probably more likely to come as a GXR-module with M-mount.

don't you mean k mount?

Fogel70 · 01-04-2012, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

don't you mean k mount?

No, with K-mount there will not be enough users available for making this possible. With M-mount it is possible to adapt most RF and SLR mounts, so it will be available in a much larger market.

**Clinton** · 01-04-2012, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by Fogel70

Why would they? K-mount will be Pentax biggest market the next 10 years, but if they don't evolve it will be the only thing they have.

Why would they need to evolve away from the K mount? Things can be added to the K mount without much trouble. There's plenty of space on the mount for more pins.

Pest · 01-04-2012, 08:05 AM

I think a mirrorless or mirrored camera with a new mount/registration distance would be fine, so long as they produce an affordable adapter that preserves all of the functions currently found in my K mount camera.

Fogel70 · 01-04-2012, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Clinton

Why would they need to evolve away from the K mount? Things can be added to the K mount without much trouble. There's plenty of space on the mount for more pins.

They should not evolve away from K-mount, but to evolve as a company by offer more different products. K-mount cameras will still be one of them.
Putting all eggs in one basket can be a dangerous thing.

I don't see why any new users looking for mirrorless cameras should be burdened by 35+ years of backward compatibility of K-mount, when they might find some other type of camera that fit them better without it. It's just not possible to optimize K-mount for all types of cameras.
Why should anyone wanting a mirrorless camera like Sony Nex7 have to get a Sony A77?

If Pentax can't offer many different types of cameras users will look somewhere else for them.

View Poll Results: What do we want from Pentax?
Full Frame	140	58.58%
Full Frame	80	33.47%
Full Frame	58	24.27%
APS-H	17	7.11%
APS-H	3	1.26%
APS-H	1	0.42%
APS-C Only, no FF or APS-H	23	9.62%
APS-C Only, no FF or APS-H	12	5.02%
APS-C Only, no FF or APS-H	9	3.77%
Continuation of the K mount	186	77.82%
Continuation of the K mount	111	46.44%
Continuation of the K mount	73	30.54%
Discontiunation of the K mount for a shorter registration distance	10	4.18%
Discontiunation of the K mount for a shorter registration distance	5	2.09%
Discontiunation of the K mount for a shorter registration distance	2	0.84%
Electrical viewfinder and removal of the mirror	28	11.72%
Electrical viewfinder and removal of the mirror	7	2.93%
Electrical viewfinder and removal of the mirror	3	1.26%
Optical viewfinder, continued mirror	102	42.68%
Optical viewfinder, continued mirror	34	14.23%
Optical viewfinder, continued mirror	21	8.79%
Faster / Predictive Autofocus	154	64.44%
Faster / Predictive Autofocus	75	31.38%
Faster / Predictive Autofocus	38	15.90%
Smaller camera bodies and lenses	30	12.55%
Smaller camera bodies and lenses	4	1.67%
Smaller camera bodies and lenses	3	1.26%
Super telephoto options, 400mm and above	64	26.78%
Super telephoto options, 400mm and above	24	10.04%
Super telephoto options, 400mm and above	15	6.28%
Less expensive gear	47	19.67%
Less expensive gear	11	4.60%
Less expensive gear	10	4.18%
Leaf shutter	6	2.51%
Leaf shutter	0	0%
Leaf shutter	1	0.42%
Electronic shutter	13	5.44%
Electronic shutter	2	0.84%
Electronic shutter	2	0.84%
Improved video support and controls	53	22.18%
Improved video support and controls	13	5.44%
Improved video support and controls	8	3.35%
Improved flash sync speed	69	28.87%
Improved flash sync speed	12	5.02%
Improved flash sync speed	5	2.09%
Improved wireless flash support	38	15.90%
Improved wireless flash support	11	4.60%
Improved wireless flash support	6	2.51%
Uncrippled K mount for M and K series lenses	89	37.24%
Uncrippled K mount for M and K series lenses	27	11.30%
Uncrippled K mount for M and K series lenses	14	5.86%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 239. You may not vote on this poll

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01-03-2012, 06:10 PM	#46
selar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,042	For those that voted to discontinue the K mount, what do you plan to do with all your K-mount lenses?

01-03-2012, 06:24 PM - 2 Likes	#47
GibbyTheMole Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Iowa Photos: Albums Posts: 2,275	Originally posted by Clinton If they spurn us, I can almost guarantee it will be their biggest problem in the future. Yep. I think it would be total corporate suicide. I probably shouldn't read these speculative user threads because they only make me paranoid as everyone else seems to be. Surely, Ricoh (who is no stranger to camera making) wouldn't have paid 124 million dollars for the Pentax name just to do something of epic stupidity to kill it by alienating the bulk of their customer base. I think the likely scenario is that they're going to carry on the tradition and improve on existing lines, but it takes time to get the ball rolling in that direction. There is absolutely NO reason to change the mount. Nothing would be gained in doing so. Here's what I think would make sense for the new Pentax: 1) Introduce a Canikon killer. An improvement on the K5 with easily interchangabe focusing screens, maybe a detachable prism, (with other finder options) FF sensor, and excellent high ISO performance. 2) A full line of pro glass in all focal lengths at competitive prices to lure professionals to Pentax 3) Introduce a successor to the K-r. A subtle refinement to what made the K-x & K-r great. 4) Introduce a lower priced version of the Q. See what happens for awhile and gauge the trends & go from there. In my opinion, there really isn't that big of a reason for a middle camera (K7) at the moment. The K7, while a very nice camera is the least important niche to cater to at the moment until they feel out the market. But I could be wrong, YMMV and all that... Cheers, Bobbo :-)

01-03-2012, 07:47 PM	#48
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,709	Originally posted by drougge Or maybe that much less expensive, because of the modern lenses they will also sell to this customer, who would not have bought any lenses at all without a camera that supports his old ones? I don't have any data on how this tends to pan out, do you? (Except myself, I care about uncrippled mount quite a lot, and having it certainly wouldn't have stopped me from buying the DA50-135 last year, or the FA31 and FA77 the year before that.) Same question, is this just something you think? I believe (also without any data to back it up) that they gain at least as much as they lose. Showing you care about your existing customers is never a bad thing in itself. Your think as good as mine here I'm afraid. There are plenty of folks here that still hold on to ist; K200; K10 as 'THEIR BEST' and you still think they'd support the next new camera or buy new lenses? You can check out the K5 sub-forum to find many of them. A lot more Canikony fanboys on many other forums would just buy the latest and "greatest" (and the companies make money) that comes out rather than debate over LPMM; Moire; AA filter; and whatnot that happens here. An expanded user base with a new mount will see more of such newer generation 'fanboyish' ppl support Pentax monetarily, be it buying the body only or some buying of Pentax lenses together with some of their M-mount; EOS; etc Anyway, I did not suggest NO K-mount support. A K-mount adapter would certainly be good and ease the pain as well as a logical step. So how does a K-mount only new MILC camera benefit Pentax? Ppl might as well choose NEX, V1, m4/3 or NX cameras since nothing else can be mounted on such a Pentax K-mount MILC. Originally posted by maxfield_photo It's interesting, I thought there would be a lot more interest in improved wireless flash support, because compared to Canon, and especially Nikon, the Pentax flash control system is anemic. I gave it two votes, and one to higher flash sync speed. For those who have never messed around with it, Pentax supports channels as it is now, but not zones. Zones allow you to control multiple lights independently of one another. So you could control a key light, a background light, a fill light, and even a hair light all from the back of the camera. If the background has it's own zone for example, and you see it's too dark, you can bump it up from the camera position without affecting the key light. Channels are only useful for shooting events with other photographers when you don't want your flash to be accidentally triggered by another flash going off. There's no way to trigger multiple channels at once. This tells me that most Pentax enthusiasts (assuming the initial results are representative) either shoot manual flash, one-light setups, or don't use flash much at all. As popular as "Strobist" lighting has become, it looks like it hasn't caught on here yet. Agreed. I missed out this option when I choose "Max flash sync speed" instead. Looking at the demographics and type of photography done here and even on my local Pentax forum, I think 'strobing' has not caught on and much a strong point for Pentax. Perhaps those interested in it did consider the systems and options and moved to Nikon/Canon right from the start.

01-03-2012, 11:20 PM	#49
markku55 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Hanko, Finland Posts: 223	I do not know what would be better if Pentax change the K-moun to something else? Why could not Pentax make a mirrorless frame and then an adapter for K-mount like Sony do for A-mount/NEX? It is really expensive to construct a complete range of new lenses, rather construct in first place an adapter and some most important lenses, I'm sure that the Sony way is the right.

01-03-2012, 11:28 PM	#50
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor 3 votes for discontinuing K mount. It's time to move on. I'd like to see what they can do without the burden of backward compatibility. And that would effectively kill off a large portion of pentaxes' cut of the market share. Changing the lens mount seriously cramped hasselblads' style, many pros went to Phasemiya or the Sinar Hy-6 - and the pentax 645D, and let us not forget what happened when Canon switched from FD to EF. Those who forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them. And the current Digital SLR camera market there isn't much room for mistakes - it is too cutthroat, even Canon couldn't pull off that kind of a stunt without having even more people switch to Nikon.

01-04-2012, 01:14 AM	#51
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by Clinton If they spurn us, the negative publicity will be their biggest problem in the future. Why would they? K-mount will be Pentax biggest market the next 10 years, but if they don't evolve it will be the only thing they have. Pentax small sensor P&S will probaby have no real future as smartphones will replace most of that market. P&S with bigget sensors (with fixed or interchangable lens) is probably a market that will grow considerable in the future and something Pentax want to be part of. You don't think Pentax negative publicity enough already as being "a brand without furure", that get sold off every few years, and the only new thing Pentax can come up with are new colors, and a mirrorless system that no one wants.

01-04-2012, 01:53 AM	#52
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Another thing would be pentax producing a camera without an AA filter... Leica has done well with the FF M9, I think it is time we got rid of the damn things - or at least provide the option for the user to remove it.

01-04-2012, 02:22 AM	#53
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	I'd like to see an AF digital version of the Pentax LX (or a class like that)

01-04-2012, 04:15 AM	#54
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Alizarine I'd like to see an AF digital version of the Pentax LX (or a class like that) +1 especially if it had a 24Mp monochrome sensor, user removable AA filter, interchangeable viewfinders and a non-crippled KAF-mount.

01-04-2012, 05:14 AM	#55
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by Digitalis +1 especially if it had a 24Mp monochrome sensor, user removable AA filter, interchangeable viewfinders and a non-crippled KAF-mount. This type of specifycation is probably more likely to come as a GXR-module with M-mount.

01-04-2012, 06:24 AM	#56
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by Fogel70 This type of specifycation is probably more likely to come as a GXR-module with M-mount. don't you mean k mount?

01-04-2012, 07:07 AM	#57
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by Digitalis don't you mean k mount? No, with K-mount there will not be enough users available for making this possible. With M-mount it is possible to adapt most RF and SLR mounts, so it will be available in a much larger market.

01-04-2012, 07:08 AM	#58
Clinton Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,912 Original Poster	Originally posted by Fogel70 Why would they? K-mount will be Pentax biggest market the next 10 years, but if they don't evolve it will be the only thing they have. Why would they need to evolve away from the K mount? Things can be added to the K mount without much trouble. There's plenty of space on the mount for more pins.

01-04-2012, 08:05 AM	#59
Pest Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: London, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 33	I think a mirrorless or mirrored camera with a new mount/registration distance would be fine, so long as they produce an affordable adapter that preserves all of the functions currently found in my K mount camera.

01-04-2012, 10:02 AM	#60
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by Clinton Why would they need to evolve away from the K mount? Things can be added to the K mount without much trouble. There's plenty of space on the mount for more pins. They should not evolve away from K-mount, but to evolve as a company by offer more different products. K-mount cameras will still be one of them. Putting all eggs in one basket can be a dangerous thing. I don't see why any new users looking for mirrorless cameras should be burdened by 35+ years of backward compatibility of K-mount, when they might find some other type of camera that fit them better without it. It's just not possible to optimize K-mount for all types of cameras. Why should anyone wanting a mirrorless camera like Sony Nex7 have to get a Sony A77? If Pentax can't offer many different types of cameras users will look somewhere else for them.