K-7: Auto ISO in P mode is finally fixed

Edvinas · 07-04-2009, 05:40 PM

When I try new Pentax camera, I always check if Pentax fixed bugs, present in their previous cameras.

Of course I did that with K-7. Good news, they finally fixed that nasty Auto ISO bug in P mode (Auto ISO was not increased in P mode).

It is a bug fix, however I am 100% sure, Pentax won't release this bugfix for K10D/K20D. As they never released fix for Auto ISO stopping working with EV compensation on K100D and earlier cameras.

kittykat46 · 07-05-2009, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

............with K-7. Good news, they finally fixed that nasty Auto ISO bug in P mode (Auto ISO was not increased in P mode).

It is a bug fix, however I am 100% sure, Pentax won't release this bugfix for K10D/K20D. As they never released fix for Auto ISO stopping working with EV compensation on K100D and earlier cameras.

I'm sorry, but am I missing something ? As far as I know, the Auto ISO works fine on the K10D/K20D in P, Green, Av, Tv modes. It doesn't work on Sv and Manual modes, but that's to be expected.

I've always considered the Hyper-Program mode as only an extension of the Program mode, not a substitute for Aperture and Shutter priority (Av or Tv.)
You are allowing the camera to choose for you Aperture, Shutter and ISO sensitivity. As a further convenience, Pentax allows you to adjust either of Aperture or Shutter Speed to your taste. Its SO convenient a lot of users won't even need to use Tv or Av. But you have to be aware the ISO sensitivity remains at the original Program line.

I agree the Auto ISO not functioning with E/V on the K100D is a well known problem, and much discussed on this forum before.

Arpe · 07-05-2009, 03:19 AM

Nope it is buggy, in fact broken, on K20D. It doesn't auto-ISO when altering the Tv in Hyper-programme. IT works fine in Av mode. Pentax Japan are aware of this I know for sure, I'm surprised they choose to ignore obviously broken firmware.

Good to hear it's fixed on K-7. I always thought I'd use that a lot on K20D, but never do as it doesn't work properly.

Class A · 07-05-2009, 03:37 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

It is a bug fix, however I am 100% sure, Pentax won't release this bugfix for K10D/K20D. As they never released fix for Auto ISO stopping working with EV compensation on K100D and earlier cameras.

I think you are right. Rather sad that is.

No one will not upgrade to a better camera model just because their K100D doesn't have an ISO bug anymore. But providing the bug fix would help to build up customer trust.

ogl · 07-05-2009, 04:42 AM

autoISO works in P mode at my K200D too.

Zebooka · 07-05-2009, 06:06 AM

About other bugs...

1) Can you delete two photos from different folders at once? (unable on K10D, it just does not select photos in second folder)
2) "670 photos left". In *** JPEG on my K10D with large SD/SDHC (2Gb, 8Gb) sometimes it shows that only 670 photos left. It occurs if no photos are taken in current day folder, and after camera was hot-started (insert battery, ON, OFF, ON or insert, ON, MENU, MENU). It will show normal count after shot is taken and menu-menu double clicked (or switched to RAW and then back to JPEG in menu)

octavmandru · 07-05-2009, 06:49 AM

Auto ISO working perfectly in all modes is supposed to. K20D.
Don't blame the camera.

Edvinas · 07-05-2009, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by octavmandru

Auto ISO working perfectly in all modes is supposed to. K20D.
Don't blame the camera.

No, it does not. Set to P and adjust shutter speed. Increase it. First, camera will be opening lens aperture. When the widest lens aperture is reached, Auto ISO should kick in and increase sensitivity. However it doesn't and you're not allowed to increase shutter speed anymore.

kittykat46 · 07-05-2009, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Edvinas

No, it does not. Set to P and adjust shutter speed. Increase it. First, camera will be opening lens aperture. When the widest lens aperture is reached, Auto ISO should kick in and increase sensitivity. However it doesn't and you're not allowed to increase shutter speed anymore.

To me, the Hyper-Program mode is functioning as advertised.

I think what you are looking for is really called Shutter Priority, and its there on the other control knob position.

Edvinas · 07-05-2009, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by kittykat46

To me, the Hyper-Program mode is functioning as advertised.

So explain me please, how Hyper-Program should function?

Duck Dodgers · 07-05-2009, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by Edvinas

No, it does not. Set to P and adjust shutter speed. Increase it. First, camera will be opening lens aperture. When the widest lens aperture is reached, Auto ISO should kick in and increase sensitivity. However it doesn't and you're not allowed to increase shutter speed anymore.

It does increase the sensitivity, but not in the way you describe. When you run out of aperture and cannot increase the shutter speed, if the scene darkens any from that point on, ISO increases, holding that shutter speed and aperture. (I just tried it using the light from my monitor; as I got to 1/160 at f/1.7, I moved the camera view away from the monitor, and ISO increased from 100 to 800, which is the Auto-ISO range I have set.)

Class A · 07-05-2009, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by kittykat46

To me, the Hyper-Program mode is functioning as advertised.

Here's Arpe's description of the bug:

Quote:

The auto-ISO would work fine when altering the aperture (ie. it would lower shutter to 1/FL then up the ISO), whereas when altering shutter speed, once the camera hit the max aperture it would not alter the ISO! As a result I never use that mode, though it was a feature that I bought the camera for.

Edvinas · 07-05-2009, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by Duck Dodgers

It does increase the sensitivity, but not in the way you describe. When you run out of aperture and cannot increase the shutter speed, if the scene darkens any from that point on, ISO increases, holding that shutter speed and aperture. (I just tried it using the light from my monitor; as I got to 1/160 at f/1.7, I moved the camera view away from the monitor, and ISO increased from 100 to 800, which is the Auto-ISO range I have set.)

You do that without adjusting shutter speed. I am talking about situation when you adjust shutter speed in P.

Do following.
Set camera to Auto ISO.
Put camera on tripod or any other stable place, so light coming to camera will be constant.
Set camera to Tv mode, shange shutter speed both ways and look how Auto ISO is behaving.
You will notice that Auto ISO algorithm is straightforward: when you increase shutter speed, ISO is increased as the last resort, when lens maximum aperture is reached and lens can't be opened more. When you decrerase shutter speed, ISO is lowered firs and when lowest allowed ISO value is achieved, camera starts to close aperture.

Then switch to P mode and start to adjust shutter speed and look how it behaves. According to manual and as advertised, in P mode when you turn front dial, camera seamlessly switches to Tv mode.
You will see that camera does not behave like it was behaving in Tv mode. It will lower ISO, but it won't increase it.

Most interesting situation you get in low light.

For example your lens is f/2.8 and in P mode camera meters 1/60, f/2.8, ISO400. With front e-dial decrease shutter speed to 1/30. aperture will stay at f/2.8, ISO will become 200. Then try to go back to initial shutter speed 1/60s. Camera won't allow this. And if you decrease shutter speed to 1/15s, settings will become f/2.8, 1/15s, ISO 100. Camera then won't allow you to select anything faster than 1/15s. Finally if you would press green button, camera will set 1/60s, f/2.8, ISO 400...

For me it's clearly a bug. And they fixed it in K-7. K-7 P mode acts exactly the way I expect it to act.

nostatic · 07-05-2009, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Edvinas

So explain me please, how Hyper-Program should function?

Well, when you hit the button the flux capacitor charges and sends 1.21 gigawatts to the hyper-drive, allowing you to change the shutter speed to 1/1,000,000 of a second until it melts down and explodes at twice the speed of light.

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

octavmandru · 07-05-2009, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by Edvinas

No, it does not. Set to P and adjust shutter speed. Increase it. First, camera will be opening lens aperture. When the widest lens aperture is reached, Auto ISO should kick in and increase sensitivity. However it doesn't and you're not allowed to increase shutter speed anymore.

It's working. Try to put the lens cap on, and you'll see. ISO boosts to max set.
What you don't see, and I can partially agree, is the fact that after you switch from HyP to Tv, the Iso is very "reluctant" to react. But the camera is programmed like that, so it will keep the lowest ISO. (cause you can set the ISO limits forehand).

Edit: I can see your point. Can't increase Shutter speed over a certain value.
But check the manual:
"You can only set the shutter speed to a value that will give a correct
exposure with the aperture range of the lens being used."

Same is for aperture...

So, it's like advertised.

07-04-2009, 05:40 PM	#1
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	K-7: Auto ISO in P mode is finally fixed When I try new Pentax camera, I always check if Pentax fixed bugs, present in their previous cameras. Of course I did that with K-7. Good news, they finally fixed that nasty Auto ISO bug in P mode (Auto ISO was not increased in P mode). It is a bug fix, however I am 100% sure, Pentax won't release this bugfix for K10D/K20D. As they never released fix for Auto ISO stopping working with EV compensation on K100D and earlier cameras.

07-05-2009, 01:36 AM	#2
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	Originally posted by Edvinas ............with K-7. Good news, they finally fixed that nasty Auto ISO bug in P mode (Auto ISO was not increased in P mode). It is a bug fix, however I am 100% sure, Pentax won't release this bugfix for K10D/K20D. As they never released fix for Auto ISO stopping working with EV compensation on K100D and earlier cameras. I'm sorry, but am I missing something ? As far as I know, the Auto ISO works fine on the K10D/K20D in P, Green, Av, Tv modes. It doesn't work on Sv and Manual modes, but that's to be expected. I've always considered the Hyper-Program mode as only an extension of the Program mode, not a substitute for Aperture and Shutter priority (Av or Tv.) You are allowing the camera to choose for you Aperture, Shutter and ISO sensitivity. As a further convenience, Pentax allows you to adjust either of Aperture or Shutter Speed to your taste. Its SO convenient a lot of users won't even need to use Tv or Av. But you have to be aware the ISO sensitivity remains at the original Program line. I agree the Auto ISO not functioning with E/V on the K100D is a well known problem, and much discussed on this forum before. Last edited by kittykat46; 07-05-2009 at 02:20 AM.

07-05-2009, 07:26 PM	#15
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	Originally posted by Edvinas No, it does not. Set to P and adjust shutter speed. Increase it. First, camera will be opening lens aperture. When the widest lens aperture is reached, Auto ISO should kick in and increase sensitivity. However it doesn't and you're not allowed to increase shutter speed anymore. It's working. Try to put the lens cap on, and you'll see. ISO boosts to max set. What you don't see, and I can partially agree, is the fact that after you switch from HyP to Tv, the Iso is very "reluctant" to react. But the camera is programmed like that, so it will keep the lowest ISO. (cause you can set the ISO limits forehand). Edit: I can see your point. Can't increase Shutter speed over a certain value. But check the manual: "You can only set the shutter speed to a value that will give a correct exposure with the aperture range of the lens being used." Same is for aperture... So, it's like advertised. Last edited by octavmandru; 07-05-2009 at 07:38 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Auto ISO in manual mode	yusuf	Pentax DSLR Discussion	37	03-10-2012 05:44 PM
[Auto-ISO] so, is the K5 and Kr brave enough to use max iso?	Reportage	Pentax K-5 & K-5 II	13	10-24-2010 03:30 PM
k20d auto ISO in TAv mode	wiyum	Pentax DSLR Discussion	10	08-13-2008 05:18 PM
auto ISO in M mode? not option?	Akcelik	Pentax DSLR Discussion	4	03-07-2007 05:38 PM
K10D. Bug with Auto ISO in P mode?	Edvinas	Pentax DSLR Discussion	21	12-30-2006 05:47 PM

07-05-2009, 03:19 AM	#3
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Nope it is buggy, in fact broken, on K20D. It doesn't auto-ISO when altering the Tv in Hyper-programme. IT works fine in Av mode. Pentax Japan are aware of this I know for sure, I'm surprised they choose to ignore obviously broken firmware. Good to hear it's fixed on K-7. I always thought I'd use that a lot on K20D, but never do as it doesn't work properly.

07-05-2009, 03:37 AM	#4
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Edvinas It is a bug fix, however I am 100% sure, Pentax won't release this bugfix for K10D/K20D. As they never released fix for Auto ISO stopping working with EV compensation on K100D and earlier cameras. I think you are right. Rather sad that is. No one will not upgrade to a better camera model just because their K100D doesn't have an ISO bug anymore. But providing the bug fix would help to build up customer trust.

07-05-2009, 04:42 AM	#5
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	autoISO works in P mode at my K200D too.

07-05-2009, 06:06 AM	#6
Zebooka Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Russia, Siberia, Novosibirsk Posts: 323	About other bugs... 1) Can you delete two photos from different folders at once? (unable on K10D, it just does not select photos in second folder) 2) "670 photos left". In *** JPEG on my K10D with large SD/SDHC (2Gb, 8Gb) sometimes it shows that only 670 photos left. It occurs if no photos are taken in current day folder, and after camera was hot-started (insert battery, ON, OFF, ON or insert, ON, MENU, MENU). It will show normal count after shot is taken and menu-menu double clicked (or switched to RAW and then back to JPEG in menu)

07-05-2009, 06:49 AM	#7
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	Auto ISO working perfectly in all modes is supposed to. K20D. Don't blame the camera.

07-05-2009, 05:18 PM	#8
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458 Original Poster	Originally posted by octavmandru Auto ISO working perfectly in all modes is supposed to. K20D. Don't blame the camera. No, it does not. Set to P and adjust shutter speed. Increase it. First, camera will be opening lens aperture. When the widest lens aperture is reached, Auto ISO should kick in and increase sensitivity. However it doesn't and you're not allowed to increase shutter speed anymore.

07-05-2009, 06:22 PM	#9
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	Originally posted by Edvinas No, it does not. Set to P and adjust shutter speed. Increase it. First, camera will be opening lens aperture. When the widest lens aperture is reached, Auto ISO should kick in and increase sensitivity. However it doesn't and you're not allowed to increase shutter speed anymore. To me, the Hyper-Program mode is functioning as advertised. I think what you are looking for is really called Shutter Priority, and its there on the other control knob position.

07-05-2009, 06:37 PM	#10
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458 Original Poster	Originally posted by kittykat46 To me, the Hyper-Program mode is functioning as advertised. So explain me please, how Hyper-Program should function?

07-05-2009, 06:44 PM	#11
Duck Dodgers Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: in the 24½th Century! Photos: Gallery Posts: 439	Originally posted by Edvinas No, it does not. Set to P and adjust shutter speed. Increase it. First, camera will be opening lens aperture. When the widest lens aperture is reached, Auto ISO should kick in and increase sensitivity. However it doesn't and you're not allowed to increase shutter speed anymore. It does increase the sensitivity, but not in the way you describe. When you run out of aperture and cannot increase the shutter speed, if the scene darkens any from that point on, ISO increases, holding that shutter speed and aperture. (I just tried it using the light from my monitor; as I got to 1/160 at f/1.7, I moved the camera view away from the monitor, and ISO increased from 100 to 800, which is the Auto-ISO range I have set.)

07-05-2009, 06:47 PM	#12
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by kittykat46 To me, the Hyper-Program mode is functioning as advertised. Here's Arpe's description of the bug: Quote: The auto-ISO would work fine when altering the aperture (ie. it would lower shutter to 1/FL then up the ISO), whereas when altering shutter speed, once the camera hit the max aperture it would not alter the ISO! As a result I never use that mode, though it was a feature that I bought the camera for.

07-05-2009, 07:06 PM	#13
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458 Original Poster	Originally posted by Duck Dodgers It does increase the sensitivity, but not in the way you describe. When you run out of aperture and cannot increase the shutter speed, if the scene darkens any from that point on, ISO increases, holding that shutter speed and aperture. (I just tried it using the light from my monitor; as I got to 1/160 at f/1.7, I moved the camera view away from the monitor, and ISO increased from 100 to 800, which is the Auto-ISO range I have set.) You do that without adjusting shutter speed. I am talking about situation when you adjust shutter speed in P. Do following. Set camera to Auto ISO. Put camera on tripod or any other stable place, so light coming to camera will be constant. Set camera to Tv mode, shange shutter speed both ways and look how Auto ISO is behaving. You will notice that Auto ISO algorithm is straightforward: when you increase shutter speed, ISO is increased as the last resort, when lens maximum aperture is reached and lens can't be opened more. When you decrerase shutter speed, ISO is lowered firs and when lowest allowed ISO value is achieved, camera starts to close aperture. Then switch to P mode and start to adjust shutter speed and look how it behaves. According to manual and as advertised, in P mode when you turn front dial, camera seamlessly switches to Tv mode. You will see that camera does not behave like it was behaving in Tv mode. It will lower ISO, but it won't increase it. Most interesting situation you get in low light. For example your lens is f/2.8 and in P mode camera meters 1/60, f/2.8, ISO400. With front e-dial decrease shutter speed to 1/30. aperture will stay at f/2.8, ISO will become 200. Then try to go back to initial shutter speed 1/60s. Camera won't allow this. And if you decrease shutter speed to 1/15s, settings will become f/2.8, 1/15s, ISO 100. Camera then won't allow you to select anything faster than 1/15s. Finally if you would press green button, camera will set 1/60s, f/2.8, ISO 400... For me it's clearly a bug. And they fixed it in K-7. K-7 P mode acts exactly the way I expect it to act.

07-05-2009, 07:07 PM	#14
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	Originally posted by Edvinas So explain me please, how Hyper-Program should function? Well, when you hit the button the flux capacitor charges and sends 1.21 gigawatts to the hyper-drive, allowing you to change the shutter speed to 1/1,000,000 of a second until it melts down and explodes at twice the speed of light. It's not a bug, it's a feature.