First Informal K-30 AF Test Shots Are Encouraging

Class A · 06-30-2012, 08:55 AM

Although the test shots have been made rather informally, they seem to indicate that the low-light front focusing issue that plagued the K-5 seems to be solved with the K-30.

Nothing conclusive, but encouraging nevertheless.

JinDesu · 06-30-2012, 09:19 AM

I don't read German, but is that stated in the post, or are you inferring off the picture?

liukaitc · 06-30-2012, 09:37 AM

no idea what we can see from the test photo
both k-5 and k-30 test pic show accurate focus

Welfl · 06-30-2012, 09:45 AM

I just found the translation for that page. Click here.

Thanks much for the link, Class A.

I don't know why the original poster is referring to a Firmware 1.0 update. I can't find it anywhere else on the internet, and even one of the posters further down seems to be confused.

rawr · 06-30-2012, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Class A

low-light front focusing issue that plagued the K-5

Hmmm. You mean perhaps afflicted some K-5's with perhaps some lenses in the hands of some users.

Having recently shot about 700 images with my K-5 at an event in extremely low light (ie think a lot of shots at ISO 12800 at f1.8 @ 1/100 low-light, in tungsten, LED, flouro) with three very different lenses (Tammy 17-50, FA 50, Sigma 70-200 II), I saw little evidence of this front focusing in low-light plague.

StephenHampshire · 06-30-2012, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by rawr

Hmmm. You mean perhaps afflicted some K-5's with perhaps some lenses in the hands of some users.

Having recently shot about 700 images with my K-5 at an event in extremely low light (ie think a lot of shots at ISO 12800 at f1.8 @ 1/100 low-light, in tungsten, LED, flouro) with three very different lenses (Tammy 17-50, FA 50, Sigma 70-200 II), I saw little evidence of this front focusing in low-light plague.

It is there with some lenses, my Sigma 30mm f1.4 is pretty flakey in low light (6400 f1.8 1/30th) and dose front focus whereas other lenses such as 16-45, DA70 are generally OK. Also worse in gaslight (quite green) as opposed to tungsten replacement fluoro bulbs. Real tungsten is hard to find in Europe.

MrCynical · 06-30-2012, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Hmmm. You mean perhaps afflicted some K-5's with perhaps some lenses in the hands of some users.

Having recently shot about 700 images with my K-5 at an event in extremely low light (ie think a lot of shots at ISO 12800 at f1.8 @ 1/100 low-light, in tungsten, LED, flouro) with three very different lenses (Tammy 17-50, FA 50, Sigma 70-200 II), I saw little evidence of this front focusing in low-light plague.

"I don't have the problem, so it doesn't exist". The most unassailable of all forum logic.

rawr · 06-30-2012, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by MrCynical

The most unassailable of all forum logic.

Yeah, but the other side of the coin is that it's just as easy to say: 'I have this problem, therefore everyone must have this problem'. That is also very common forum logic.

howieb101 · 07-01-2012, 12:52 AM

Hi All. I have a K7 and it actually has better focus indoors. Obviously focus speed is slower but I find my FA 35mm F2 focusses very accurately indoors and have found my DA* 50-135mm F2.8 again seems to have better focus indoors. It could well be that contrast indoors is greater and that is helping the AF system. If I believed everything on the forum it would make me think my K7 focusses better than the K5.

I still intend to get a K5 soon as the pricing is so good now. I have held the K30 and just do not think I could handle the downgrade in build quality unless the AF is indeed truly better than the K5/K7.

Class A · 07-01-2012, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by JinDesu

I don't read German, but is that stated in the post, or are you inferring off the picture?

Both.

Originally posted by liukaitc

both k-5 and k-30 test pic show accurate focus

The (German) text reveals where he focused (at the word "Objektive"). With this being the target, the K-5 shows front focus.

The target is not terribly suited to make reliable experiments, but assuming that he used both K-5 and K-30 in the same way, plus given his other verbal statements about the changed AF behaviour of the K-30, it seems justified to assume that Pentax succeeded in addressing the remaining front-focus issues of the K-5.

Originally posted by Welfl

I don't know why the original poster is referring to a Firmware 1.0 update.

He is a dealer and got one of the very first production copies.

Originally posted by rawr

Hmmm. You mean perhaps afflicted some K-5's with perhaps some lenses in the hands of some users.

The K-5's front focusing issues have been confirmed by many, many users. Falk Lumo (falconeye) has thoroughly investigated the issue and has presented very convincing arguments regarding the source of the problem. According to the latter, it appears that every unit would be affected, and that some users just notice more than others (possibly by exposing the camera to situations where it struggles more than in others).

Class A · 07-01-2012, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by howieb101

If I believed everything on the forum it would make me think my K7 focusses better than the K5.

It does, in low light. It is not perfect either, but it doesn't have the low-light AF bug the K-5 has.

In sufficient light, the K-5's AF is better than the K-7's.

Ray Pulley · 07-02-2012, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Class A

It does, in low light. It is not perfect either, but it doesn't have the low-light AF bug the K-5 has.

In sufficient light, the K-5's AF is better than the K-7's.

I sold my K7, but it was quite similar to the earlier Pentax bodies I owned (DS, K100, K10, K20) in that it moved to FF as the light level was reduced and the color temp was lowered. In my tests it behaved almost exactly like my two K20s.

My two K5s are much better in this regard.

One of the biggest differences between them was that the earlier bodies simply hunted and hunted and hunted and hunted and often gave up sooner. I think that one of the problems with the K5 is that some portion of the AF system is too sensitive and it locks when it should give up, even below thhe specified range. It is a little unpredictable as to when it turns on AF assist as well.

I'm just not seeing a consistent AF "bug" in either of my K5s since the firmware was updated. That is not to say that it is perfect or that others do not have trouble, but in light down to the official specs my K5s focus better than any Pentax I owned in the past.

I can only be encouraged when I read that the K 30 is better yet. Here's hoping that the k5 replacement will be an even greater improvement so we can finally stop reading about AF complaints.

Ray

audiobomber · 07-03-2012, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by Ray Pulley

I think that one of the problems with the K5 is that some portion of the AF system is too sensitive and it locks when it should give up, even below thhe specified range. It is a little unpredictable as to when it turns on AF assist as well.

That wasn't the problem mine had at all. It focussed fine in any kind of daylight, low or high intensity. In tungsten light it showed consistent and severe front-focus.

Originally posted by Ray Pulley

I'm just not seeing a consistent AF "bug" in either of my K5s since the firmware was updated. That is not to say that it is perfect or that others do not have trouble, but in light down to the official specs my K5s focus better than any Pentax I owned in the past.

I installed the firmware update that was supposed to fix the AF problem, but I found no change; perfect focus in daylight, serious FF in tungsten light. I posted results using my DA 40 on the K-5 and K-x, and FA 35 on the K20 (I wanted to check a couple of other things at the same time). If you care to pixel peep, you can view full resolution photos by clicking on the magnifying glass.
https://picasaweb.google.com/bonhommed/TungstenLightTest?authkey=Gv1sRgCLf74sWxotSUfA#

I know not everyone's K-5 has this problem, but I also know that not everyone claiming the issue are not just noobs or incompetent.

Ray Pulley · 07-03-2012, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

That wasn't the problem mine had at all. It focussed fine in any kind of daylight, low or high intensity. In tungsten light it showed consistent and severe front-focus.

So did my first 3 copies before the firmware update. The point being that the K5 seems to lock in very low light, even below the specified range of -1 ev when it should give up. When it does lock in this light, it is always FF in my experience.

I have extensively and carefully tested 5 bodies now and if you care to take the time, you can easily find the results with a search.

Quote:

I installed the firmware update that was supposed to fix the AF problem, but I found no change; perfect focus in daylight, serious FF in tungsten light. I posted results using my DA 40 on the K-5 and K-x, and FA 35 on the K20 (I wanted to check a couple of other things at the same time). If you care to pixel peep, you can view full resolution photos by clicking on the magnifying glass.
https://picasaweb.google.com/bonhommed/TungstenLightTest?authkey=Gv1sRgCLf74sWxotSUfA#

I know not everyone's K-5 has this problem, but I also know that not everyone claiming the issue are not just noobs or incompetent.

Who said anything about incompetence or noobs?

Have you sent the camera in for service?

It seems to me that if some cameras work as advertised and some do not, then a camera that does not focus properly in the specified range of light levels can be fixed one way or another. I also have lenses that are better than others in focus accuracy and consistency. The DA 15 is a bit inconsistent in low light and the FA43 is very inconsistent. I suspect that the 15 has to do with field curvature and the size of objects at a distance while the 43 is probably suffering from CA issues.

Anyway, I hope you can get your K5 sorted out, but we are drifting off topic here.

Ray

audiobomber · 07-03-2012, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Ray Pulley

So did my first 3 copies before the firmware update. The point being that the K5 seems to lock in very low light, even below the specified range of -1 ev when it should give up. When it does lock in this light, it is always FF in my experience.

The significant issue for me is that the K-5 AF didn't perform as well as my other bodies in tungsten light, to the point where it was totally unacceptable.

Originally posted by Ray Pulley

Who said anything about incompetence or noobs?

This comment was not directed you, but that's how I interpreted zxaar's comments and I've seen it elsewhere, stated more bluntly.
"You mean perhaps afflicted some K-5's with perhaps some lenses in the hands of some users."

Originally posted by Ray Pulley

Have you sent the camera in for service?

It seems to me that if some cameras work as advertised and some do not, then a camera that does not focus properly in the specified range of light levels can be fixed one way or another.

Anyway, I hope you can get your K5 sorted out, but we are drifting off topic here.

From reading about others' experiences, I believe that K-5 bodies that were not fixed by the firmware upgrade may not be repairable. I returned the K-5 for a refund because I wasn't confident I would get a good one, but also because I didn't feel it offered enough over and above my K20 and K-x. I'm not in a hurry. I'm waiting to see what else is on the way.

Class A's original post said "Although the test shots have been made rather informally, they seem to indicate that the low-light front focusing issue that plagued the K-5 seems to be solved with the K-30."

I think we are squarely on topic with this discussion.

06-30-2012, 08:55 AM	#1
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	First Informal K-30 AF Test Shots Are Encouraging Although the test shots have been made rather informally, they seem to indicate that the low-light front focusing issue that plagued the K-5 seems to be solved with the K-30. Nothing conclusive, but encouraging nevertheless.

07-01-2012, 12:52 AM	#9
howieb101 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 594	My K7 doesn't front focus!! Hi All. I have a K7 and it actually has better focus indoors. Obviously focus speed is slower but I find my FA 35mm F2 focusses very accurately indoors and have found my DA* 50-135mm F2.8 again seems to have better focus indoors. It could well be that contrast indoors is greater and that is helping the AF system. If I believed everything on the forum it would make me think my K7 focusses better than the K5. I still intend to get a K5 soon as the pricing is so good now. I have held the K30 and just do not think I could handle the downgrade in build quality unless the AF is indeed truly better than the K5/K7.

07-01-2012, 01:11 AM	#10
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by JinDesu I don't read German, but is that stated in the post, or are you inferring off the picture? Both. Originally posted by liukaitc both k-5 and k-30 test pic show accurate focus The (German) text reveals where he focused (at the word "Objektive"). With this being the target, the K-5 shows front focus. The target is not terribly suited to make reliable experiments, but assuming that he used both K-5 and K-30 in the same way, plus given his other verbal statements about the changed AF behaviour of the K-30, it seems justified to assume that Pentax succeeded in addressing the remaining front-focus issues of the K-5. Originally posted by Welfl I don't know why the original poster is referring to a Firmware 1.0 update. He is a dealer and got one of the very first production copies. Originally posted by rawr Hmmm. You mean perhaps afflicted some K-5's with perhaps some lenses in the hands of some users. The K-5's front focusing issues have been confirmed by many, many users. Falk Lumo (falconeye) has thoroughly investigated the issue and has presented very convincing arguments regarding the source of the problem. According to the latter, it appears that every unit would be affected, and that some users just notice more than others (possibly by exposing the camera to situations where it struggles more than in others). Last edited by Class A; 07-03-2012 at 05:35 AM.

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06-30-2012, 09:19 AM	#2
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	I don't read German, but is that stated in the post, or are you inferring off the picture?

06-30-2012, 09:37 AM	#3
liukaitc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,008	no idea what we can see from the test photo both k-5 and k-30 test pic show accurate focus

06-30-2012, 09:45 AM	#4
Welfl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Nebraska Posts: 281	I just found the translation for that page. Click here. Thanks much for the link, Class A. I don't know why the original poster is referring to a Firmware 1.0 update. I can't find it anywhere else on the internet, and even one of the posters further down seems to be confused.

06-30-2012, 10:43 AM	#5
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Class A low-light front focusing issue that plagued the K-5 Hmmm. You mean perhaps afflicted some K-5's with perhaps some lenses in the hands of some users. Having recently shot about 700 images with my K-5 at an event in extremely low light (ie think a lot of shots at ISO 12800 at f1.8 @ 1/100 low-light, in tungsten, LED, flouro) with three very different lenses (Tammy 17-50, FA 50, Sigma 70-200 II), I saw little evidence of this front focusing in low-light plague.

06-30-2012, 11:01 AM	#6
StephenHampshire Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Winchester Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,523	Originally posted by rawr Hmmm. You mean perhaps afflicted some K-5's with perhaps some lenses in the hands of some users. Having recently shot about 700 images with my K-5 at an event in extremely low light (ie think a lot of shots at ISO 12800 at f1.8 @ 1/100 low-light, in tungsten, LED, flouro) with three very different lenses (Tammy 17-50, FA 50, Sigma 70-200 II), I saw little evidence of this front focusing in low-light plague. It is there with some lenses, my Sigma 30mm f1.4 is pretty flakey in low light (6400 f1.8 1/30th) and dose front focus whereas other lenses such as 16-45, DA70 are generally OK. Also worse in gaslight (quite green) as opposed to tungsten replacement fluoro bulbs. Real tungsten is hard to find in Europe.

06-30-2012, 04:18 PM	#7
MrCynical Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 132	Originally posted by rawr Hmmm. You mean perhaps afflicted some K-5's with perhaps some lenses in the hands of some users. Having recently shot about 700 images with my K-5 at an event in extremely low light (ie think a lot of shots at ISO 12800 at f1.8 @ 1/100 low-light, in tungsten, LED, flouro) with three very different lenses (Tammy 17-50, FA 50, Sigma 70-200 II), I saw little evidence of this front focusing in low-light plague. "I don't have the problem, so it doesn't exist". The most unassailable of all forum logic.

06-30-2012, 10:21 PM	#8
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by MrCynical The most unassailable of all forum logic. Yeah, but the other side of the coin is that it's just as easy to say: 'I have this problem, therefore everyone must have this problem'. That is also very common forum logic.

07-01-2012, 01:21 AM	#11
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by howieb101 If I believed everything on the forum it would make me think my K7 focusses better than the K5. It does, in low light. It is not perfect either, but it doesn't have the low-light AF bug the K-5 has. In sufficient light, the K-5's AF is better than the K-7's.

07-02-2012, 06:34 PM	#12
Ray Pulley Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fallon Nevada Photos: Albums Posts: 504	Originally posted by Class A It does, in low light. It is not perfect either, but it doesn't have the low-light AF bug the K-5 has. In sufficient light, the K-5's AF is better than the K-7's. I sold my K7, but it was quite similar to the earlier Pentax bodies I owned (DS, K100, K10, K20) in that it moved to FF as the light level was reduced and the color temp was lowered. In my tests it behaved almost exactly like my two K20s. My two K5s are much better in this regard. One of the biggest differences between them was that the earlier bodies simply hunted and hunted and hunted and hunted and often gave up sooner. I think that one of the problems with the K5 is that some portion of the AF system is too sensitive and it locks when it should give up, even below thhe specified range. It is a little unpredictable as to when it turns on AF assist as well. I'm just not seeing a consistent AF "bug" in either of my K5s since the firmware was updated. That is not to say that it is perfect or that others do not have trouble, but in light down to the official specs my K5s focus better than any Pentax I owned in the past. I can only be encouraged when I read that the K 30 is better yet. Here's hoping that the k5 replacement will be an even greater improvement so we can finally stop reading about AF complaints. Ray

07-03-2012, 04:45 AM	#13
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by Ray Pulley I think that one of the problems with the K5 is that some portion of the AF system is too sensitive and it locks when it should give up, even below thhe specified range. It is a little unpredictable as to when it turns on AF assist as well. That wasn't the problem mine had at all. It focussed fine in any kind of daylight, low or high intensity. In tungsten light it showed consistent and severe front-focus. Originally posted by Ray Pulley I'm just not seeing a consistent AF "bug" in either of my K5s since the firmware was updated. That is not to say that it is perfect or that others do not have trouble, but in light down to the official specs my K5s focus better than any Pentax I owned in the past. I installed the firmware update that was supposed to fix the AF problem, but I found no change; perfect focus in daylight, serious FF in tungsten light. I posted results using my DA 40 on the K-5 and K-x, and FA 35 on the K20 (I wanted to check a couple of other things at the same time). If you care to pixel peep, you can view full resolution photos by clicking on the magnifying glass. https://picasaweb.google.com/bonhommed/TungstenLightTest?authkey=Gv1sRgCLf74sWxotSUfA# I know not everyone's K-5 has this problem, but I also know that not everyone claiming the issue are not just noobs or incompetent.

07-03-2012, 06:25 AM	#14
Ray Pulley Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fallon Nevada Photos: Albums Posts: 504	Originally posted by audiobomber That wasn't the problem mine had at all. It focussed fine in any kind of daylight, low or high intensity. In tungsten light it showed consistent and severe front-focus. So did my first 3 copies before the firmware update. The point being that the K5 seems to lock in very low light, even below the specified range of -1 ev when it should give up. When it does lock in this light, it is always FF in my experience. I have extensively and carefully tested 5 bodies now and if you care to take the time, you can easily find the results with a search. Quote: I installed the firmware update that was supposed to fix the AF problem, but I found no change; perfect focus in daylight, serious FF in tungsten light. I posted results using my DA 40 on the K-5 and K-x, and FA 35 on the K20 (I wanted to check a couple of other things at the same time). If you care to pixel peep, you can view full resolution photos by clicking on the magnifying glass. https://picasaweb.google.com/bonhommed/TungstenLightTest?authkey=Gv1sRgCLf74sWxotSUfA# I know not everyone's K-5 has this problem, but I also know that not everyone claiming the issue are not just noobs or incompetent. Who said anything about incompetence or noobs? Have you sent the camera in for service? It seems to me that if some cameras work as advertised and some do not, then a camera that does not focus properly in the specified range of light levels can be fixed one way or another. I also have lenses that are better than others in focus accuracy and consistency. The DA 15 is a bit inconsistent in low light and the FA43 is very inconsistent. I suspect that the 15 has to do with field curvature and the size of objects at a distance while the 43 is probably suffering from CA issues. Anyway, I hope you can get your K5 sorted out, but we are drifting off topic here. Ray

07-03-2012, 10:18 AM	#15
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by Ray Pulley So did my first 3 copies before the firmware update. The point being that the K5 seems to lock in very low light, even below the specified range of -1 ev when it should give up. When it does lock in this light, it is always FF in my experience. The significant issue for me is that the K-5 AF didn't perform as well as my other bodies in tungsten light, to the point where it was totally unacceptable. Originally posted by Ray Pulley Who said anything about incompetence or noobs? This comment was not directed you, but that's how I interpreted zxaar's comments and I've seen it elsewhere, stated more bluntly. "You mean perhaps afflicted some K-5's with perhaps some lenses in the hands of some users." Originally posted by Ray Pulley Have you sent the camera in for service? It seems to me that if some cameras work as advertised and some do not, then a camera that does not focus properly in the specified range of light levels can be fixed one way or another. Anyway, I hope you can get your K5 sorted out, but we are drifting off topic here. From reading about others' experiences, I believe that K-5 bodies that were not fixed by the firmware upgrade may not be repairable. I returned the K-5 for a refund because I wasn't confident I would get a good one, but also because I didn't feel it offered enough over and above my K20 and K-x. I'm not in a hurry. I'm waiting to see what else is on the way. Class A's original post said "Although the test shots have been made rather informally, they seem to indicate that the low-light front focusing issue that plagued the K-5 seems to be solved with the K-30." I think we are squarely on topic with this discussion.