K-5 Exposure Bracketing With 2 Second Timer

Zen4Life · 02-23-2012, 09:20 PM

Just got my K-5 and was playing with exposure bracketing. Say I am using a tripod and want to utilize the 2 second timer (because it locks up the mirror) and want to perform a 3 shot bracket. It actually pauses 2 seconds between frames???? There must be a way to avoid that pause between frames. Anyone know how?

Furthermore, when you do the 12 second timer it fires all 3 at the end of the 12 seconds, as one would expect!

Adam · 02-23-2012, 09:52 PM

I think they designed it that way to minimize the effect of mirror slap, though you're right, there's no reason the mirror needs to come down in-between shots.

civiletti · 02-23-2012, 10:50 PM

there would be less vibration if the mirror stayed up. I find that sequence quite annoying. It needs a software fix.

Gimbal · 02-24-2012, 12:16 AM

I don't agree. If I call for 2seconds mirror lock up, then I want all my shots to be without vibrations, not only the first one.

Stone G. · 02-24-2012, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Zen4Life

Just got my K-5 and was playing with exposure bracketing. Say I am using a tripod and want to utilize the 2 second timer (because it locks up the mirror) and want to perform a 3 shot bracket. It actually pauses 2 seconds between frames???? There must be a way to avoid that pause between frames. Anyone know how?

Furthermore, when you do the 12 second timer it fires all 3 at the end of the 12 seconds, as one would expect!

If you use the 2s delay you cannot avoid that pause between frames. What you could do is to use bracketing + IR remote. If you further set Custom Setting 9 to "one push bracketing" you can have up to 5 bracketed frames where the mirrot wil stay up and you don't have to touch the camera. Not quite what you might want (: no mirror lock for the first frame) but almost.......?

Zen4Life · 02-24-2012, 08:46 AM

Yes, a remote seems to be the best option.

Does anyone know if the mirror is moving in-between frames during these 2 second pauses? My understanding is for a single-shot using the 2 second delay the mirror locks up at the start but for bracketed shots, does the mirror stay up for all 3 or 5 shots?

Stone G. · 02-24-2012, 10:01 AM

You can hear - and see in the viewfinder - that the mirror moves between each frame. That is the way the 2s delay feature is designed and I am afraid there is nothing you can do aboui that.

sterretje · 02-24-2012, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

I don't agree. If I call for 2seconds mirror lock up, then I want all my shots to be without vibrations, not only the first one.

But why does the mirror go down in between shots? I haven't tried it, but that is how I understand the problem / question.

philbaum · 02-24-2012, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by sterretje

But why does the mirror go down in between shots? I haven't tried it, but that is how I understand the problem / question.

I can think of one reason to have the mirror go back down in between shots.

If you're doing long exposure shots, then the camera is going to go into Black Frame subtraction to reduce noise.
i've done one at 20 minutes to get star tracks, which means the Black frame sub. is also 20 minutes. That may result in a lot of power usage for the black frame business if you were not to allow the mirror to go back down.

sterretje · 02-24-2012, 08:13 PM

@philbaum

Difficult to imagine (for me!) that people actually use bracketing in combination with long exposure. And still, keeping the shutter closed should be sufficient.

The software also could have been a little more intelligent in that case. Normal use, mirror stays up, long exposure, mirror goes down. But OK, it does not seem to be like that

civiletti · 02-24-2012, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Gimbal

I don't agree. If I call for 2seconds mirror lock up, then I want all my shots to be without vibrations, not only the first one.

There would be less vibration if the mirror stayed up for all exposures, not more. There is also more chance of movement within the frame, eg, clouds, with 2 seconds between exposures.

philbaum · 02-24-2012, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by sterretje

@philbaum

Difficult to imagine (for me!) that people actually use bracketing in combination with long exposure. And still, keeping the shutter closed should be sufficient.

The software also could have been a little more intelligent in that case. Normal use, mirror stays up, long exposure, mirror goes down. But OK, it does not seem to be like that

Thats probably true. I used to do more hdr bracketing with exposures up to 30sec, but beyond that, its probably mostly the astrophotography guys, and i'm not sure what kind of techniques they have that might relate. Its odd that they did one thing on the 12 sec delay and another on the 2 sec.

Gimbal · 02-25-2012, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by civiletti

There would be less vibration if the mirror stayed up for all exposures, not more. There is also more chance of movement within the frame, eg, clouds, with 2 seconds between exposures.

Yes, but shutter induces vibrations as well so waiting 2 seconds is still a good idea. But if you don't want to wait, don't use the function.

rerun · 02-29-2012, 03:01 AM

If it ain't working, don't fix it - ignore it! Yeah.. that's the spirit.

Let's get serious again. *Every* image "suffers" from the vibrations of the shutter accelerating. As we all know, this is not really an issue. So how much could the deceleration of the shutter of an image - which even happens *before* the shutter acceleration for the current image - have influence? None, right.

So I thought if a reason for the 2 second delay betweeen the exposures might be some Nikonian style of loading the shutter through mirror mechanics? But the K5 does not have this type of shutter and as Zen4Life already pointed out the 12 s timer takes the bracketed exposures directly after another.

So I personally would guess for (another) firmware flaw.

Stone G. · 02-29-2012, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by rerun

If it ain't working, don't fix it - ignore it! Yeah.. that's the spirit.

-----
So I personally would guess for (another) firmware flaw.

I wouldn't call a functionality a firmware flaw, when it was designed on purpose to be the way it is.

You may discuss that it's unfair that I as an astrophotographer have got it may way

while you haven't. There are many - MANY - excellent options (including the different 12s and 2s options) provided with the K-5, but you can't have them all in one body.

And remember that mirror lock-up is mostly beneficial for (very) long focal lengths and moderately long exposure times such as lunar and planetary photography. Here even minute vibrations (mirror) and turbulent air flow (repeated shutter actuations) can be detrimental. As soon as you have shorter focal lenghts and faster exposure times or any focal lenght and very long exposure times --- then, what's your need for mirror lock-up?

02-23-2012, 09:20 PM	#1
Zen4Life Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 63	K-5 Exposure Bracketing With 2 Second Timer Just got my K-5 and was playing with exposure bracketing. Say I am using a tripod and want to utilize the 2 second timer (because it locks up the mirror) and want to perform a 3 shot bracket. It actually pauses 2 seconds between frames???? There must be a way to avoid that pause between frames. Anyone know how? Furthermore, when you do the 12 second timer it fires all 3 at the end of the 12 seconds, as one would expect!

02-23-2012, 09:52 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,594	I think they designed it that way to minimize the effect of mirror slap, though you're right, there's no reason the mirror needs to come down in-between shots. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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02-23-2012, 10:50 PM	#3
civiletti Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Photos: Albums Posts: 1,435	there would be less vibration if the mirror stayed up. I find that sequence quite annoying. It needs a software fix.

02-24-2012, 12:16 AM	#4
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	I don't agree. If I call for 2seconds mirror lock up, then I want all my shots to be without vibrations, not only the first one.

02-24-2012, 05:01 AM	#5
Stone G. Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Zealand, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,516	Originally posted by Zen4Life Just got my K-5 and was playing with exposure bracketing. Say I am using a tripod and want to utilize the 2 second timer (because it locks up the mirror) and want to perform a 3 shot bracket. It actually pauses 2 seconds between frames???? There must be a way to avoid that pause between frames. Anyone know how? Furthermore, when you do the 12 second timer it fires all 3 at the end of the 12 seconds, as one would expect! If you use the 2s delay you cannot avoid that pause between frames. What you could do is to use bracketing + IR remote. If you further set Custom Setting 9 to "one push bracketing" you can have up to 5 bracketed frames where the mirrot wil stay up and you don't have to touch the camera. Not quite what you might want (: no mirror lock for the first frame) but almost.......?

02-24-2012, 08:46 AM	#6
Zen4Life Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 63 Original Poster	Yes, a remote seems to be the best option. Does anyone know if the mirror is moving in-between frames during these 2 second pauses? My understanding is for a single-shot using the 2 second delay the mirror locks up at the start but for bracketed shots, does the mirror stay up for all 3 or 5 shots?

02-24-2012, 10:01 AM	#7
Stone G. Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Zealand, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,516	You can hear - and see in the viewfinder - that the mirror moves between each frame. That is the way the 2s delay feature is designed and I am afraid there is nothing you can do aboui that.

02-24-2012, 10:27 AM	#8
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	Originally posted by Gimbal I don't agree. If I call for 2seconds mirror lock up, then I want all my shots to be without vibrations, not only the first one. But why does the mirror go down in between shots? I haven't tried it, but that is how I understand the problem / question.

02-24-2012, 01:42 PM	#9
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by sterretje But why does the mirror go down in between shots? I haven't tried it, but that is how I understand the problem / question. I can think of one reason to have the mirror go back down in between shots. If you're doing long exposure shots, then the camera is going to go into Black Frame subtraction to reduce noise. i've done one at 20 minutes to get star tracks, which means the Black frame sub. is also 20 minutes. That may result in a lot of power usage for the black frame business if you were not to allow the mirror to go back down.

02-24-2012, 08:13 PM	#10
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	@philbaum Difficult to imagine (for me!) that people actually use bracketing in combination with long exposure. And still, keeping the shutter closed should be sufficient. The software also could have been a little more intelligent in that case. Normal use, mirror stays up, long exposure, mirror goes down. But OK, it does not seem to be like that

02-24-2012, 08:22 PM	#11
civiletti Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Photos: Albums Posts: 1,435	Originally posted by Gimbal I don't agree. If I call for 2seconds mirror lock up, then I want all my shots to be without vibrations, not only the first one. There would be less vibration if the mirror stayed up for all exposures, not more. There is also more chance of movement within the frame, eg, clouds, with 2 seconds between exposures.

02-24-2012, 11:46 PM	#12
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by sterretje @philbaum Difficult to imagine (for me!) that people actually use bracketing in combination with long exposure. And still, keeping the shutter closed should be sufficient. The software also could have been a little more intelligent in that case. Normal use, mirror stays up, long exposure, mirror goes down. But OK, it does not seem to be like that Thats probably true. I used to do more hdr bracketing with exposures up to 30sec, but beyond that, its probably mostly the astrophotography guys, and i'm not sure what kind of techniques they have that might relate. Its odd that they did one thing on the 12 sec delay and another on the 2 sec.

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02-25-2012, 02:06 AM	#13
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by civiletti There would be less vibration if the mirror stayed up for all exposures, not more. There is also more chance of movement within the frame, eg, clouds, with 2 seconds between exposures. Yes, but shutter induces vibrations as well so waiting 2 seconds is still a good idea. But if you don't want to wait, don't use the function.

02-29-2012, 03:01 AM	#14
rerun Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 12	If it ain't working, don't fix it - ignore it! Yeah.. that's the spirit. Let's get serious again. Every image "suffers" from the vibrations of the shutter accelerating. As we all know, this is not really an issue. So how much could the deceleration of the shutter of an image - which even happens before the shutter acceleration for the current image - have influence? None, right. So I thought if a reason for the 2 second delay betweeen the exposures might be some Nikonian style of loading the shutter through mirror mechanics? But the K5 does not have this type of shutter and as Zen4Life already pointed out the 12 s timer takes the bracketed exposures directly after another. So I personally would guess for (another) firmware flaw.

02-29-2012, 12:47 PM	#15
Stone G. Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Zealand, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,516	Originally posted by rerun If it ain't working, don't fix it - ignore it! Yeah.. that's the spirit. ----- So I personally would guess for (another) firmware flaw. I wouldn't call a functionality a firmware *flaw,* when it was designed on purpose to be the way it is. You may discuss that it's unfair that I as an astrophotographer have got it may way while you haven't. There are many - MANY - excellent options (including the different 12s and 2s options) provided with the K-5, but you can't have them all in one body. And remember that mirror lock-up is mostly beneficial for (very) long focal lengths and moderately long exposure times such as lunar and planetary photography. Here even minute vibrations (mirror) and turbulent air flow (repeated shutter actuations) can be detrimental. As soon as you have shorter focal lenghts and faster exposure times or any focal lenght and very long exposure times --- then, what's your need for mirror lock-up?