Advice needed

blurwi · 07-08-2013, 06:51 PM

First, I have to confess I am not sure where to post this question but it made sense since it is about the K5IIs to post here. I am currently shooting with a Canon 6D and I am wondering would I be either wise or stupid to change to the K5IIs. I am not in a position to have both but I am familiar some what with the quality of Pentax. I should add I photograph mainly Birds and the long 6D lenses would be out of my bank balance. I am thinking with the crop factor of the K5IIs I would reach a lot further with a standard lens. Hope this makes sense.

vanyagor · 07-08-2013, 07:15 PM

Of course the smaller the sensor the "easier" you can have longer zoom in a smaller and more affordable package. You could go further and get a superzoom (Like Panasonic FZ200) or a mirrorless with a smaller sensor (like Pentax Q). If you are set on a dSLR, why Pentax? If you already have Canon 6D you may use your current lenses on a APS-C Canon body, isn't it? It would save you the hustle of completely changing your system.

P.S.: Please see the post by Class A below for important correction regarding the actual reach comparison between sensors of different sizes: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/230953-advice-needed.html#post2445840

Adam · 07-08-2013, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by blurwi

First, I have to confess I am not sure where to post this question but it made sense since it is about the K5IIs to post here. I am currently shooting with a Canon 6D and I am wondering would I be either wise or stupid to change to the K5IIs. I am not in a position to have both but I am familiar some what with the quality of Pentax. I should add I photograph mainly Birds and the long 6D lenses would be out of my bank balance. I am thinking with the crop factor of the K5IIs I would reach a lot further with a standard lens. Hope this makes sense.

What's your lens budget? If you already have the 6D, the 70-200mm F4 + a TC might do the trick for birds. You could also look at one of the Sigma super zooms.

blurwi · 07-08-2013, 07:35 PM

Thanks for the quick reply. I suppose there are many ways to proceed, possibly some would make more sense than others. I realize I could get a APC Canon and use my lenses that certainly is true. I have this idea from watching and listening to people on Youtube etc that the build and quality of the K5II/s is excellent plus the in camera stabilization which means cheeper good quality lenses which possibly be more in my budget. Hence my posting here. So folks advise away.

**bkpix** · 07-08-2013, 09:21 PM

K-5 is a great camera -- I have two. Trouble is, Pentax hasn't got much to offer in the way of 400mm lenses. No 1.4x teleconverter, either.

That's why I've got a Canon 7D -- for birds and wildlife. Works great with a 100-400L, with a 300/4 + TC, or with a 400/5.6, all for about the same money.

**eaglem** · 07-08-2013, 11:27 PM

I have the Pentax K-5 II.s which I find excellent and quite a few Sigma lenses which in my opinion are of very good quality and give good results. You could probably get the Sigma 50mm to 500mm at a very reasonable price or cheaper still the 150mm to 500mm. For a fast lens the Sigma 70mm - 200mm F2.8 is the go.

LowVoltage · 07-08-2013, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by blurwi

Thanks for the quick reply. I suppose there are many ways to proceed, possibly some would make more sense than others. I realize I could get a APC Canon and use my lenses that certainly is true. I have this idea from watching and listening to people on Youtube etc that the build and quality of the K5II/s is excellent plus the in camera stabilization which means cheeper good quality lenses which possibly be more in my budget. Hence my posting here. So folks advise away.

I second what bkpix says. The Canon 7D, from what I've read, is often touted as a fantastic back-up body by professionals. By all accounts it's image quality is great, and my understanding is that the AF is a good deal better than the consumer-level bodies. Why not take advantage of the inherent extra reach afforded by the cropped APS sensor?

(Also, rumor has it the 7D is up for renewal - A 7D mk II, perhaps? This means you could wait for the new body or take advantage of getting a good price on the current model when retailers clear out the old stock...)

Class A · 07-09-2013, 01:24 AM - **1 Like**

The K-5 IIs has great build quality, excellent ergonomics and the image stabilisation is another big plus.

However, smaller sensors do not give more "reach". They often happen to have higher pixel-density, which helps with the reach, but their size as such is no advantage. Note that you could crop your 6D images to APS-C size and still have a lot of MP left. The K-5 IIs would just give you a 35% (linear) resolution advantage.

TenZ.NL · 07-09-2013, 01:29 AM

Originally posted by LowVoltage

I second what bkpix says. The Canon 7D, from what I've read, is often touted as a fantastic back-up body by professionals. By all accounts it's image quality is great, and my understanding is that the AF is a good deal better than the consumer-level bodies. Why not take advantage of the inherent extra reach afforded by the cropped APS sensor?

(Also, rumor has it the 7D is up for renewal - A 7D mk II, perhaps? This means you could wait for the new body or take advantage of getting a good price on the current model when retailers clear out the old stock...)

+1 on that.
The 7D has also dual processors which makes it really fast. Also one can get a 400L F5.6 (no IS) or a 300L F4 with TC (Seen some great shots with that combo). For Pentax the choices are limited too the DA* 300 F4 (no TC available), the sigma superzooms (150-500 or 50-500, both relatively slow). Next there are 2 sigma primes: the 300mm F2.8 and the 500mm F4.5. Both will work with the dedicated TC`s but they are in a different priceleague, we`re talking resp. €3000 and €4500 here.

Here a discussion on the different big zooms and primes, incl samples: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/216903-help-me...all-sigma.html

**Schraubstock** · 07-09-2013, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by vanyagor

Of course the smaller the sensor the "easier" you can have longer zoom in a smaller and more affordable package. You could go further and get a superzoom (Like Panasonic FZ200) or a mirrorless with a smaller sensor (like Pentax Q). If you are set on a dSLR, why Pentax? If you already have Canon 6D you may use your current lenses on a APS-C Canon body, isn't it? It would save you the hustle of completely changing your system.

Hi

A lot of people still don't understand an APS-C sensor does not give you extra reach. Say you have 300mm lens it remains a 300mm lens no matter the camera you put it on, the sensor size of the camera does not change this. Take your bird shot on a full frame cam and then crop to 1.5, which is the crop factor of a APS-C camera, and you have the same result a 1.5 crop camera will give you. There are some minor differences as Class A above points out but I doubt this alone would justify the purchase of a new APS C cam.

Greetings

vanyagor · 07-09-2013, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by Schraubstock

Hi

A lot of people still don't understand an APS-C sensor does not give you extra reach. Say you have 300mm lens it remains a 300mm lens no matter the camera you put it on, the sensor size of the camera does not change this. Take your bird shot on a full frame cam and then crop to 1.5, which is the crop factor of a APS-C camera, and you have the same result a 1.5 crop camera will give you. There are some minor differences as Class A above points out but I doubt this alone would justify the purchase of a new APS C cam.

Greetings

You and Class A are of course right! I should have used quotation marks all over my post, rereading it I confirm it is flawed and actually unfixable so I leave it as is.

The effect of the (sometimes) higher pixel density can be quite significant though. Also there are some usage advantages when your subject actually feels your viewfinder which may be quite significant too.

ChrisJ · 07-09-2013, 03:49 AM

If it's 'reach' your after a lot of people are having great success with the Pentax Q, the Pentax Q to K adapter and a medium to long lens, the favorite is the 300mm f4, which, on a Q, is a 1650mm f4. See this thread

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-q/173602-reach-q-images.html

As actually framing the shot and finding the subject is difficult at these extremes many use a 'red dot' finder to aim and shoot

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-q/185934-new-pentax-red-dot-finder-q-da-300-img.html

With one of these you can turn off the rear screen which doubles battery life.

Even a humble, and cheap, 50mm f1.4 K mount lens becomes a 275mm f1.4 on a Q!

Chris

Class A · 07-09-2013, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by ChrisJ

Even a humble, and cheap, 50mm f1.4 K mount lens becomes a 275mm f1.4 on a Q!

If you are using an FF-equivalent focal length then you need to convert the f-ratio as well.

The lens on the Q is equivalent to a 275mm f/7.7 on FF.

audiobomber · 07-09-2013, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by Class A

If you are using an FF-equivalent focal length then you need to convert the f-ratio as well.

The lens on the Q is equivalent to a 275mm f/7.7 on FF.

Not to mention the image quality is nowhere near APS-C with a consumer grade 55-300mm.

To the OP, I love Pentax, but Canon has a lot more lens choices for birding.

GeneV · 07-10-2013, 05:19 AM

I'm going through this whole thought process as well, after a birding hike which proved that a 200mm lens on APS-C leaves much to be desired in terms of reach. My crops indicate that 500mm is more like it for smaller birds, unless you are hidden in a blind or taking a shot through into the back yard through your window, where the 55-300 will work. Time to get out the old mirror lens.

07-08-2013, 06:51 PM	#1
blurwi New Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2	Advice needed First, I have to confess I am not sure where to post this question but it made sense since it is about the K5IIs to post here. I am currently shooting with a Canon 6D and I am wondering would I be either wise or stupid to change to the K5IIs. I am not in a position to have both but I am familiar some what with the quality of Pentax. I should add I photograph mainly Birds and the long 6D lenses would be out of my bank balance. I am thinking with the crop factor of the K5IIs I would reach a lot further with a standard lens. Hope this makes sense.

07-08-2013, 07:15 PM	#2
vanyagor Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 177	Of course the smaller the sensor the "easier" you can have longer zoom in a smaller and more affordable package. You could go further and get a superzoom (Like Panasonic FZ200) or a mirrorless with a smaller sensor (like Pentax Q). If you are set on a dSLR, why Pentax? If you already have Canon 6D you may use your current lenses on a APS-C Canon body, isn't it? It would save you the hustle of completely changing your system. P.S.: Please see the post by Class A below for important correction regarding the actual reach comparison between sensors of different sizes: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/230953-advice-needed.html#post2445840 Last edited by vanyagor; 07-09-2013 at 02:20 AM.

07-08-2013, 07:31 PM	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	Originally posted by blurwi First, I have to confess I am not sure where to post this question but it made sense since it is about the K5IIs to post here. I am currently shooting with a Canon 6D and I am wondering would I be either wise or stupid to change to the K5IIs. I am not in a position to have both but I am familiar some what with the quality of Pentax. I should add I photograph mainly Birds and the long 6D lenses would be out of my bank balance. I am thinking with the crop factor of the K5IIs I would reach a lot further with a standard lens. Hope this makes sense. What's your lens budget? If you already have the 6D, the 70-200mm F4 + a TC might do the trick for birds. You could also look at one of the Sigma super zooms. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

07-08-2013, 07:35 PM	#4
blurwi New Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2 Original Poster	Advice needed Thanks for the quick reply. I suppose there are many ways to proceed, possibly some would make more sense than others. I realize I could get a APC Canon and use my lenses that certainly is true. I have this idea from watching and listening to people on Youtube etc that the build and quality of the K5II/s is excellent plus the in camera stabilization which means cheeper good quality lenses which possibly be more in my budget. Hence my posting here. So folks advise away.

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07-08-2013, 09:21 PM	#5
bkpix Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Creswell, Oregon Photos: Albums Posts: 568	K-5 is a great camera -- I have two. Trouble is, Pentax hasn't got much to offer in the way of 400mm lenses. No 1.4x teleconverter, either. That's why I've got a Canon 7D -- for birds and wildlife. Works great with a 100-400L, with a 300/4 + TC, or with a 400/5.6, all for about the same money.

07-08-2013, 11:27 PM	#6
eaglem Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 43,144	I have the Pentax K-5 II.s which I find excellent and quite a few Sigma lenses which in my opinion are of very good quality and give good results. You could probably get the Sigma 50mm to 500mm at a very reasonable price or cheaper still the 150mm to 500mm. For a fast lens the Sigma 70mm - 200mm F2.8 is the go.

07-08-2013, 11:31 PM	#7
LowVoltage Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mount Joy, PA Photos: Gallery Posts: 544	Originally posted by blurwi Thanks for the quick reply. I suppose there are many ways to proceed, possibly some would make more sense than others. I realize I could get a APC Canon and use my lenses that certainly is true. I have this idea from watching and listening to people on Youtube etc that the build and quality of the K5II/s is excellent plus the in camera stabilization which means cheeper good quality lenses which possibly be more in my budget. Hence my posting here. So folks advise away. I second what bkpix says. The Canon 7D, from what I've read, is often touted as a fantastic back-up body by professionals. By all accounts it's image quality is great, and my understanding is that the AF is a good deal better than the consumer-level bodies. Why not take advantage of the inherent extra reach afforded by the cropped APS sensor? (Also, rumor has it the 7D is up for renewal - A 7D mk II, perhaps? This means you could wait for the new body or take advantage of getting a good price on the current model when retailers clear out the old stock...)

07-09-2013, 01:24 AM - 1 Like	#8
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	The K-5 IIs has great build quality, excellent ergonomics and the image stabilisation is another big plus. However, smaller sensors do not give more "reach". They often happen to have higher pixel-density, which helps with the reach, but their size as such is no advantage. Note that you could crop your 6D images to APS-C size and still have a lot of MP left. The K-5 IIs would just give you a 35% (linear) resolution advantage.

07-09-2013, 01:29 AM	#9
TenZ.NL Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Below sealevel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,100	Originally posted by LowVoltage I second what bkpix says. The Canon 7D, from what I've read, is often touted as a fantastic back-up body by professionals. By all accounts it's image quality is great, and my understanding is that the AF is a good deal better than the consumer-level bodies. Why not take advantage of the inherent extra reach afforded by the cropped APS sensor? (Also, rumor has it the 7D is up for renewal - A 7D mk II, perhaps? This means you could wait for the new body or take advantage of getting a good price on the current model when retailers clear out the old stock...) +1 on that. The 7D has also dual processors which makes it really fast. Also one can get a 400L F5.6 (no IS) or a 300L F4 with TC (Seen some great shots with that combo). For Pentax the choices are limited too the DA* 300 F4 (no TC available), the sigma superzooms (150-500 or 50-500, both relatively slow). Next there are 2 sigma primes: the 300mm F2.8 and the 500mm F4.5. Both will work with the dedicated TC`s but they are in a different priceleague, we`re talking resp. €3000 and €4500 here. Here a discussion on the different big zooms and primes, incl samples: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/216903-help-me...all-sigma.html

07-09-2013, 01:55 AM	#10
Schraubstock Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,386	Originally posted by vanyagor Of course the smaller the sensor the "easier" you can have longer zoom in a smaller and more affordable package. You could go further and get a superzoom (Like Panasonic FZ200) or a mirrorless with a smaller sensor (like Pentax Q). If you are set on a dSLR, why Pentax? If you already have Canon 6D you may use your current lenses on a APS-C Canon body, isn't it? It would save you the hustle of completely changing your system. Hi A lot of people still don't understand an APS-C sensor does not give you extra reach. Say you have 300mm lens it remains a 300mm lens no matter the camera you put it on, the sensor size of the camera does not change this. Take your bird shot on a full frame cam and then crop to 1.5, which is the crop factor of a APS-C camera, and you have the same result a 1.5 crop camera will give you. There are some minor differences as Class A above points out but I doubt this alone would justify the purchase of a new APS C cam. Greetings

07-09-2013, 02:18 AM	#11
vanyagor Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 177	Originally posted by Schraubstock Hi A lot of people still don't understand an APS-C sensor does not give you extra reach. Say you have 300mm lens it remains a 300mm lens no matter the camera you put it on, the sensor size of the camera does not change this. Take your bird shot on a full frame cam and then crop to 1.5, which is the crop factor of a APS-C camera, and you have the same result a 1.5 crop camera will give you. There are some minor differences as Class A above points out but I doubt this alone would justify the purchase of a new APS C cam. Greetings You and Class A are of course right! I should have used quotation marks all over my post, rereading it I confirm it is flawed and actually unfixable so I leave it as is. The effect of the (sometimes) higher pixel density can be quite significant though. Also there are some usage advantages when your subject actually feels your viewfinder which may be quite significant too.

07-09-2013, 03:49 AM	#12
ChrisJ Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Eckington, Derbyshire UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 316	If it's 'reach' your after a lot of people are having great success with the Pentax Q, the Pentax Q to K adapter and a medium to long lens, the favorite is the 300mm f4, which, on a Q, is a 1650mm f4. See this thread https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-q/173602-reach-q-images.html As actually framing the shot and finding the subject is difficult at these extremes many use a 'red dot' finder to aim and shoot https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-q/185934-new-pentax-red-dot-finder-q-da-300-img.html With one of these you can turn off the rear screen which doubles battery life. Even a humble, and cheap, 50mm f1.4 K mount lens becomes a 275mm f1.4 on a Q! Chris

07-09-2013, 04:18 AM	#13
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by ChrisJ Even a humble, and cheap, 50mm f1.4 K mount lens becomes a 275mm f1.4 on a Q! If you are using an FF-equivalent focal length then you need to convert the f-ratio as well. The lens on the Q is equivalent to a 275mm f/7.7 on FF.

07-09-2013, 04:30 AM	#14
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by Class A If you are using an FF-equivalent focal length then you need to convert the f-ratio as well. The lens on the Q is equivalent to a 275mm f/7.7 on FF. Not to mention the image quality is nowhere near APS-C with a consumer grade 55-300mm. To the OP, I love Pentax, but Canon has a lot more lens choices for birding.

07-10-2013, 05:19 AM	#15
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	I'm going through this whole thought process as well, after a birding hike which proved that a 200mm lens on APS-C leaves much to be desired in terms of reach. My crops indicate that 500mm is more like it for smaller birds, unless you are hidden in a blind or taking a shot through into the back yard through your window, where the 55-300 will work. Time to get out the old mirror lens.