EXCLUSIVE: Ricoh to Beef Up Digital Camera Biz

RonHendriks1966 · 09-18-2011, 02:43 AM

Well I hope there will be something new and big. Mirrorless with adapting current K-mount lenses with an adapter would work great.

Problem with all those big sensor mirrorless camera's is heating of the sensor and draining of battery. Both make them useless for professional work.

How big is that sensor?

Clavius · 09-18-2011, 02:43 AM

I absolutely adore my K5 and K20D. Consider me a fanboy. But MILC is going to be Pentax' way, then I'll be forced to switch to a system that's more pro.

thibs · 09-18-2011, 02:50 AM

Big news indeed. Not really surprising IMO

I just hope Ricoh won't stop or slow down SLRs. They can do all at the same time. Ricoh has the money to do so.

Asahiflex · 09-18-2011, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

I absolutely adore my K5 and K20D. Consider me a fanboy. But MILC is going to be Pentax' way, then I'll be forced to switch to a system that's more pro.

MILC != Non-professional. A mirror and pentaprism viewfinder is just one of many ways of framing and focusing. Who would be against a new viewfinder system that's as good as the old one, but without the mirror and pentaprism assembly? The fewer mechanical parts in a camera, the better. What's not there can not break down

Another positive: in a MILC the diaphragm can be closed at all times. No need for stopping it down when the photo is taken (because it's already stopped down). Another mechanical part to omit!

Raffwal · 09-18-2011, 03:33 AM

I don't know where the development ends up going, but I think it is a good sign that Ricoh seems to consider cameras a proper business and not just a bastard child. Admittedly under Hoya Pentax made several good products, but I feel they lacked long time plans and perspective. Just wanted to polish the company enough to make it attractive enough to sell.

Noam · 09-18-2011, 03:53 AM

Here's an idea for a K-mount MILC, that is not totally alien to Ricoh's design philosophy (cf. GRX): use the same K-mount, but make the mount part movable between two positions:
1) far position as in the current K-mount, for current lens compatibility, and
2) close position for a new line of smaller/better lenses designed for this reduced distance, as well as collapsing the camera for compact transport and storage even with a traditional lens on it.

This could be the ultimate solution for keeping compatibility with the huge optical Pentax heritage (esp. keeping the appeal of Limiteds) while enjoying the benefits of mirrorless design.
Since it is just a short rigid movement along one dimension, I believe that it could be feasible while keeping low cost, weight, size and possibly even weather resistance.

Hmmm...

Nass · 09-18-2011, 04:00 AM

Let's take bets on which mount it'll take. K or Q.

russell2pi · 09-18-2011, 04:05 AM - **1 Like**

I was sold on mirrorless for some time but thankfully lack of funds blocked me from acting upon it. (Still yet to find an option with IBIS, quality EVF and good lens selection.)

What drew me to mirrorless was the fact that size and styling were similar to the film SLRs to which I am accustomed (Olympus OM series). Really, there is no reason why DSLRs could not follow the same form factor, AND offer a 35-mm sensor rather than a small APS-C or a tiny 4/3 sensor. It really makes zero sense why the mirrorless / EVF design needs to be profferred as the sole solution to DSLR fugly factor. There is no reason why a DLSR could not be built to the same vintage style and size as we have grown accustomed to, while still offering the advatanges of an optical viewfinder, phase AF and superior sensor size. All it would take is the courage to eschew the the rounded edges, pentaprism snout and hand grip.

I suppose it's more profitable instead to let the X-100s etc become the norm and then come out with the latest new innovation, the "reflex digital camera"!

In fact, further to this, I really can't understand why these fancy new cameras still can't offer the size and brightness of viewfinder image I can get from a used film SLR available for pocket change.

rawr · 09-18-2011, 04:34 AM

I hope Pentax approach their serious mirrorless plans very carefully.

I've had a NEX-5 for about 6 months now and I still have very mixed feelings about it. It is unusable for birding. It is unusable in bright light, even with a loupe. The menu system and associated camera controls are a big usability fail. The non-standard hotshoe is just a dumb idea. Etc. The nicest things about it are the ability to use the tiltable rear display as a waist-level finder, and the generally good IQ.

Doing mirrorless isn't a panacea for anything. It is possible to do mirrorless poorly, so if Pentax go down this path I hope they study what everyone else is doing very carefully, and learn what works and what doesn't.

Raffwal · 09-18-2011, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by Nass

Let's take bets on which mount it'll take. K or Q.

Was there ever any hard data about how big a sensor the Q mount can handle? In my view anything below APS-C is not interesting.

DaveBlack · 09-18-2011, 05:08 AM

Ricoh's view on Pentax and future camera systems are very interesting. It is giid to see that they want to make Pentax their premium brand and compete with Nikon and Canon. This could mean a lot of things, but it is different than Pentax under Hoya who wanted Pentax to do the niche way of doing things. MILC is going to be a fact of life someday. I just don't know when that day will be that I would want one for my primeary camera.

There there is the other leak about a new camera that will be announce in a month or so. No details about it. It could be anything from the usual cycle of replacement for the K-r or K-5 to a camera above the K-5 to a new APC-S MILR camera that early this year Pentax was supposed to be releasing late this year.

Anyhow, it will be interesting times coming for Pentax.

Dave

jogiba · 09-18-2011, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by rawr

I hope Pentax approach their serious mirrorless plans very carefully.

I've had a NEX-5 for about 6 months now and I still have very mixed feelings about it. It is unusable for birding. It is unusable in bright light, even with a loupe. The menu system and associated camera controls are a big usability fail. The non-standard hotshoe is just a dumb idea. Etc. The nicest things about it are the ability to use the tiltable rear display as a waist-level finder, and the generally good IQ.

Doing mirrorless isn't a panacea for anything. It is possible to do mirrorless poorly, so if Pentax go down this path I hope they study what everyone else is doing very carefully, and learn what works and what doesn't.

The new 5N with optional XGA OLED Tru-Finder is better than DSLRs in the same price class IMHO.

thibs · 09-18-2011, 06:42 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by jogiba

The new 5N with optional XGA OLED Tru-Finder is better than DSLRs in the same price class IMHO.

What, a viewfinder constantly late by half a second, better than an OVF?

(yeah, a bit provocative way of saying so I admit)

jogiba · 09-18-2011, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by thibs

What, a viewfinder constantly late by half a second, better than an OVF?

(yeah, a bit provocative way of saying so I admit)

Look into any DSLR viewfinder in video mode and tell me what you see.

Clavius · 09-18-2011, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by thibs

What, a viewfinder constantly late by half a second, better than an OVF?

(yeah, a bit provocative way of saying so I admit)

+1!

I've tried both MILC and EVF. Both aren't the real image. They lag behind reality. And the resolution is always less then the real image through an OVF, no matter how many pixels they every get.

MILCS and EVF's are just marketing, just like liveview. Who really uses THAT?

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09-18-2011, 02:43 AM	#16
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Well I hope there will be something new and big. Mirrorless with adapting current K-mount lenses with an adapter would work great. Problem with all those big sensor mirrorless camera's is heating of the sensor and draining of battery. Both make them useless for professional work. How big is that sensor?

09-18-2011, 02:43 AM	#17
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	I absolutely adore my K5 and K20D. Consider me a fanboy. But MILC is going to be Pentax' way, then I'll be forced to switch to a system that's more pro.

09-18-2011, 02:50 AM	#18
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Big news indeed. Not really surprising IMO I just hope Ricoh won't stop or slow down SLRs. They can do all at the same time. Ricoh has the money to do so.

09-18-2011, 02:53 AM	#19
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Originally posted by Clavius I absolutely adore my K5 and K20D. Consider me a fanboy. But MILC is going to be Pentax' way, then I'll be forced to switch to a system that's more pro. MILC != Non-professional. A mirror and pentaprism viewfinder is just one of many ways of framing and focusing. Who would be against a new viewfinder system that's as good as the old one, but without the mirror and pentaprism assembly? The fewer mechanical parts in a camera, the better. What's not there can not break down Another positive: in a MILC the diaphragm can be closed at all times. No need for stopping it down when the photo is taken (because it's already stopped down). Another mechanical part to omit!

09-18-2011, 03:33 AM	#20
Raffwal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The North Posts: 879	I don't know where the development ends up going, but I think it is a good sign that Ricoh seems to consider cameras a proper business and not just a bastard child. Admittedly under Hoya Pentax made several good products, but I feel they lacked long time plans and perspective. Just wanted to polish the company enough to make it attractive enough to sell.

09-18-2011, 03:53 AM	#21
Noam Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Haifa, Israel Photos: Gallery Posts: 74	Here's an idea for a K-mount MILC, that is not totally alien to Ricoh's design philosophy (cf. GRX): use the same K-mount, but make the mount part movable between two positions: 1) far position as in the current K-mount, for current lens compatibility, and 2) close position for a new line of smaller/better lenses designed for this reduced distance, as well as collapsing the camera for compact transport and storage even with a traditional lens on it. This could be the ultimate solution for keeping compatibility with the huge optical Pentax heritage (esp. keeping the appeal of Limiteds) while enjoying the benefits of mirrorless design. Since it is just a short rigid movement along one dimension, I believe that it could be feasible while keeping low cost, weight, size and possibly even weather resistance. Hmmm...

09-18-2011, 04:00 AM	#22
Nass Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The British Isles Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,402	Let's take bets on which mount it'll take. K or Q.

09-18-2011, 04:05 AM - 1 Like	#23
russell2pi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Victoria, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 252	I was sold on mirrorless for some time but thankfully lack of funds blocked me from acting upon it. (Still yet to find an option with IBIS, quality EVF and good lens selection.) What drew me to mirrorless was the fact that size and styling were similar to the film SLRs to which I am accustomed (Olympus OM series). Really, there is no reason why DSLRs could not follow the same form factor, AND offer a 35-mm sensor rather than a small APS-C or a tiny 4/3 sensor. It really makes zero sense why the mirrorless / EVF design needs to be profferred as the sole solution to DSLR fugly factor. There is no reason why a DLSR could not be built to the same vintage style and size as we have grown accustomed to, while still offering the advatanges of an optical viewfinder, phase AF and superior sensor size. All it would take is the courage to eschew the the rounded edges, pentaprism snout and hand grip. I suppose it's more profitable instead to let the X-100s etc become the norm and then come out with the latest new innovation, the "reflex digital camera"! In fact, further to this, I really can't understand why these fancy new cameras still can't offer the size and brightness of viewfinder image I can get from a used film SLR available for pocket change.

09-18-2011, 04:34 AM	#24
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	I hope Pentax approach their serious mirrorless plans very carefully. I've had a NEX-5 for about 6 months now and I still have very mixed feelings about it. It is unusable for birding. It is unusable in bright light, even with a loupe. The menu system and associated camera controls are a big usability fail. The non-standard hotshoe is just a dumb idea. Etc. The nicest things about it are the ability to use the tiltable rear display as a waist-level finder, and the generally good IQ. Doing mirrorless isn't a panacea for anything. It is possible to do mirrorless poorly, so if Pentax go down this path I hope they study what everyone else is doing very carefully, and learn what works and what doesn't.

09-18-2011, 04:44 AM	#25
Raffwal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The North Posts: 879	Originally posted by Nass Let's take bets on which mount it'll take. K or Q. Was there ever any hard data about how big a sensor the Q mount can handle? In my view anything below APS-C is not interesting.

09-18-2011, 05:08 AM	#26
DaveBlack Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 441	Ricoh's view on Pentax and future camera systems are very interesting. It is giid to see that they want to make Pentax their premium brand and compete with Nikon and Canon. This could mean a lot of things, but it is different than Pentax under Hoya who wanted Pentax to do the niche way of doing things. MILC is going to be a fact of life someday. I just don't know when that day will be that I would want one for my primeary camera. There there is the other leak about a new camera that will be announce in a month or so. No details about it. It could be anything from the usual cycle of replacement for the K-r or K-5 to a camera above the K-5 to a new APC-S MILR camera that early this year Pentax was supposed to be releasing late this year. Anyhow, it will be interesting times coming for Pentax. Dave

09-18-2011, 06:05 AM	#27
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by rawr I hope Pentax approach their serious mirrorless plans very carefully. I've had a NEX-5 for about 6 months now and I still have very mixed feelings about it. It is unusable for birding. It is unusable in bright light, even with a loupe. The menu system and associated camera controls are a big usability fail. The non-standard hotshoe is just a dumb idea. Etc. The nicest things about it are the ability to use the tiltable rear display as a waist-level finder, and the generally good IQ. Doing mirrorless isn't a panacea for anything. It is possible to do mirrorless poorly, so if Pentax go down this path I hope they study what everyone else is doing very carefully, and learn what works and what doesn't. The new 5N with optional XGA OLED Tru-Finder is better than DSLRs in the same price class IMHO.

09-18-2011, 06:42 AM - 1 Like	#28
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by jogiba The new 5N with optional XGA OLED Tru-Finder is better than DSLRs in the same price class IMHO. What, a viewfinder constantly late by half a second, better than an OVF? (yeah, a bit provocative way of saying so I admit)

09-18-2011, 06:46 AM	#29
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by thibs What, a viewfinder constantly late by half a second, better than an OVF? (yeah, a bit provocative way of saying so I admit) Look into any DSLR viewfinder in video mode and tell me what you see.

09-18-2011, 06:47 AM	#30
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by thibs What, a viewfinder constantly late by half a second, better than an OVF? (yeah, a bit provocative way of saying so I admit) +1! I've tried both MILC and EVF. Both aren't the real image. They lag behind reality. And the resolution is always less then the real image through an OVF, no matter how many pixels they every get. MILCS and EVF's are just marketing, just like liveview. Who really uses THAT?