[Jan67]

We do. Less than one in twenty buy DSLR's at $2000 or above...

Twenty of what ? Inhabitants of the Earth ? Still enough

[Semenelin]

Just got done reading some of the comments on the "review" site concerning the Canon 6D and it looks the same as this thread... people talking how Canon has gone off the deep end and that the new products are huge disappointments compared to what others released (and that they'll have to jump brands.)

I think it holds true that it is easier to be disappointed by what you don't have than satisfied with what you do.

so canon and pentax users are jumping to Nikon or the mirrorless group?

the urge to buy the whats new is very tempting to me. but since my job isn't connected to photography, i really dont need to upgrade. and i think some of us here are more or less in the same boat. do i want to buy one? yes. do i have to buy it now? nope. i'll buy either when I need 1 or pentax actually makes 1. if neither of the 2 conditions are met, i'll buy maybe a 3rd lens just so i have something "new" with me.

I agree with your last statement. and its rather sad.

[-JW-]

I don't really get all the responses, Pentax is doomed, they are falling behind the competition, the competition is steaming ahead of them?

I was quite negative in the first place as well, but then I gave it some thought and actually looked at what the competition is offering.

- They are falling behind the competition? What competition?
- On APS-C it is still one of the best camera's out there.
- Nikon didn't update their D7000 did they? Neither did they replace their dinosaur D300, which is over three years old.
- Canon didn't update their three year old 7D and it has barely dropped in price over the last 2 years. The 60D by Canon doesn't even compare to the K5 and is probably outperformed by the new K-30.
- The K5 by Pentax is only 2 years old, so it is much younger than the competition AND it has been updated AND it is priced lower.

The only real 'improvements' or 'developments' coming from the competition are on the Full Frame level. Pentax is not even competing here so how can they possibly fall behind before they even release a product in this category?
I would say it is highly unlikely, but theoretically they could release the 2 best full frame camera's (entry level and top level) in one or two years from now and crush the competition performance wise.

Looking at what is happening now at Nikon and Canon, those Full Frame camera's may seem interesting but users (especially from Canon) think it's shit for the money that they are asking. They are heavily tuned down camera's, stripped from features at even the most basic level. 1, I repeat, ONE cross type sensor in the Canon 6D for example and they are back to the (by many pentaxians dreaded) 1/180 flash sync. The Nikon D600 is priced very closely to the D800, if you are going to spend thousands on a full frame system, you would be nuts trying to save a couple hundreds by buying the D600. Now are these new camera's really that interesting? Would we have been happy if Pentax released something that matches this? No.

What we want from Pentax is a competitively priced full frame camera with features and performance that go beyond the competition. Pentax knows this and as long as they can not offer what we want at the right price, there is no point in manufacturing the thing. Look at the DA560 5.6, nice lens, prestige project, whatever. But nobobdy seriously interested in a tele from Pentax was hoping for this and very few people will buy it, even fewer will buy it and not feel ripped of. So let them wait for a bit longer if they want to come with a full frame camera and do it right. I doubt they will loose a lot of customers to the 6D or D600 once those people really start looking at the specs/price. Sure, some people will switch, but much more likely to the already existing higher placed models like they did before.

As for APS-C, I believe Pentax is still on top of things and they will keep up with competition. It is highly likely that there will be a high-end APS-C camera coming to be place above the K5-II. The K5 might be in business for another 2 years, but I don't believe it will be their top camera for all of that time. (the only thing that still gets me going mad is the video features and controls as this seems like a very simple thing to fix, partially through firmware).

To summarize, unless the competition ACTUALLY comes with products in the same category I don't all of a sudden see Pentax falling behind further and further. There is still the things like video and maybe AF that they are lacking somewhat in, but that is nothing new, it is not like this is getting worse. They claim the AF on the K5-II is actually improved, so lets wait and see.

[froeschle]

[...] But this LEICA event was fun. The following information might not be available elsewhere

-> Falk Lumo: Photokina 2012: The Leica event [...]

New Leica M Uses CMOSIS 24-MP CMOS Image Sensor

[...] The new custom-designed sensor chip, counting 6,000 x 4,000 pixels on a 6 x 6 µm² grid across the active area of 36 x 24 mm², is made by STMicroelectronics (STM) [...]

Sensor of Leica S

[...] Herzstück ist nach wie vor der von Kodak gefertigte CCD-Sensor mit einer Auflösung von 37,5 Megapixeln. [...]

LEICA S2 camera, powered by the new KAF-37500
KAF-37500
Truesense Imaging, Inc.

(See also https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/184499-pentax-working-...ml#post2030243 )

[Md82]

I'm quite happy when I learned that Pentax has released virtually nothing during Photonina. I had been being with Pentax for years, and bought a handful of SLR/DSLR bodies and a mountain of lenses, either new or second-hand. I was waiting for a full frame Pentax body to unleash the power of my lenses, but Pentax disappointed me all the way along. I'd been enough for using a 35mm lens as a standard prime (the difference between the equivalent focal length of a 35mm lens or a 28mm lens on a APS-C body and a REAL 50mm lens on a FF body always worried me) or using a 28-70mm lens as a weird 44-110mm lens. I've been enough for buying FA/F/A/M lenses and leave more than a half of the field unused.

Hence, I decided a month ago to kiss goodbye Pentax. I bought a FF DSLR and some lenses, of course not from Pentax. Yes, I'm very happy that Pentax is not doing anything again this year. This shows that my decision is correct.

[Rondec]

Not saying that I don't care because I do love my Pentax and the brand, but if they don't deliver what I (and you guys need), then too bad; there are other options out there; they can't satisfy everyone. If I love Mini Coopers, but need a pick-up truck, well too bad, I'll have to go with another car maker.
Sitting around and complaining and dreaming (even though I do admit, rumor threads are interesting to follow ) isn't going to make that new revolutionary camera appear, sadly...

I'm not criticizing their efforts, because they are trying to fix up issues such as the AF and SDM, which I really appreciate and am glad that they addressing and working things out before they take on something new.
This just isn't Pentaxe's strongest moment, after all. But don't forget, Pentax was the one who brought the wonderful K-5 to the table and the new K-30 is also pretty great. They've done it before, they can do it again.

Well, this particular section of the forum is where people go to perseverate about what Pentax is working on. We know they are working on something, but what exactly is beyond us. The K5 was released a couple of years ago and when you are looking at replacing it, you would think you could do a little more to improve it than just improve the auto focus some. Put a second SD Card slot in it. Make the buffer deeper. Add some of the improvements in video capability that are present on the K30.

Pentax didn't do any of this, which tells me that it is more of a stop gap measure, to hold people's interest while they work some more on whatever they are working on.

I love my K5s and shoot with them every day, but I do want to see Pentax bring out something new -- new glass, new flash, and new bodies above what they have now. It's just awfully hard to be patient sometimes.

[bossa]

Well, this particular section of the forum is where people go to perseverate about what Pentax is working on.

You left off 'ad nauseam'.
A quote from the net.. "This Latin phrase comes from a term in logic, the argumentum ad nauseam, in which debaters wear out the opposition by just repeating arguments until they get sick of the whole thing and give in." I can't think of anything that fits this description better than the FF prognostications on PF these past months. Unfortunately we weren't aiming the arguments directly at Pentax but each other.

[bxf]

I'm quite happy when I learned that Pentax has released virtually nothing during Photonina. I had been being with Pentax for years, and bought a handful of SLR/DSLR bodies and a mountain of lenses, either new or second-hand. I was waiting for a full frame Pentax body to unleash the power of my lenses, but Pentax disappointed me all the way along. I'd been enough for using a 35mm lens as a standard prime (the difference between the equivalent focal length of a 35mm lens or a 28mm lens on a APS-C body and a REAL 50mm lens on a FF body always worried me) or using a 28-70mm lens as a weird 44-110mm lens. I've been enough for buying FA/F/A/M lenses and leave more than a half of the field unused.

Hence, I decided a month ago to kiss goodbye Pentax. I bought a FF DSLR and some lenses, of course not from Pentax. Yes, I'm very happy that Pentax is not doing anything again this year. This shows that my decision is correct.

You don't say which Pentax you had used, or what FF you bought, but we must presume that your pictures are visibly better now, are they?

[boriscleto]

You don't say which Pentax you had used, or what FF you bought, but we must presume that your pictures are visibly better now, are they?

Check out the signup date. This person signed up for PF just to say they had switched brands. I'm thinking they are probably a paid troll.

[Clavius]

- They are falling behind the competition? What competition?
- On APS-C it is still one of the best camera's out there.
- Nikon didn't update their D7000 did they? Neither did they replace their dinosaur D300, which is over three years old.
- Canon didn't update their three year old 7D and it has barely dropped in price over the last 2 years. The 60D by Canon doesn't even compare to the K5 and is probably outperformed by the new K-30.
- The K5 by Pentax is only 2 years old, so it is much younger than the competition AND it has been updated AND it is priced lower.

The competition isn't updating their APSC cameras, because APSC DSLRs have no future. The competition is growing and moving on. Pentax may be correct in their thinking that there maybe be a niche for them as the only remaining APSC DSLR brand in the future... But that's one heck of a gamble!

Yes, Pentax may be the best in APSC DSLRs... so what? What good is it if your car is the fastest 900cc 3 cylinder car ever, if you bring it to a race with 6 liter 12 cylinder racecards?

[Rondec]

The competition isn't updating their APSC cameras, because APSC DSLRs have no future. The competition is growing and moving on. Pentax may be correct in their thinking that there maybe be a niche for them as the only remaining APSC DSLR brand in the future... But that's one heck of a gamble!

Yes, Pentax may be the best in APSC DSLRs... so what? What good is it if your car is the fastest 900cc 3 cylinder car ever, if you bring it to a race with 6 liter 12 cylinder racecards?

I think APS-C will be with us for a long time. I doubt highly that Nikon and Canon will abandon their upper end APS-C cameras. I would expect Nikon to release either an update to the D7000 or to the venerable D300s. Canon still seems to be using the same 18 megapixel sensor that came out with the 7D, so not sure how much of an upgrade they can do there, but I would think they would release such a camera as well.

The issue is more that the development cycle for APS-C has seemed to move from an 18 month cycle to more like a 2 year cycle. It has to do a lot with the rate of development of new, improved sensors. This is the biggest driver of new camera sales and if Sony doesn't have better APS-C sensors available than the current 16/24 megapixel sensors then, there is less of a push to come out with a new camera as well.

[-JW-]

The competition will update their APS-C camera's as well in some time. You really think canon and Nikon are going to cancel their entire APS-C line and replace it with full frame from now on? Come on, entry level DSLRs still make up for most of their revenue in DSLRs from what I know.

[Raffwal]

Everyone is venting and showing their frustraation with the lack of Gorilla size punch Pentax is offering. We have to remember that Pentax is more like Fiat than Ferrari or BMW.

I think you nailed it. We choose a bargain brand for one reason or another and then expect it to be a front runner.

[Kunzite]

The competition isn't updating their APSC cameras, because APSC DSLRs have no future.

And you know APSC DSLRs have no future, because the competition isn't updating their APSC cameras

By the way, where is the $1500 (MSRP) FF DSLR?

[Clavius]

I think APS-C will be with us for a long time. I doubt highly that Nikon and Canon will abandon their upper end APS-C cameras. I would expect Nikon to release either an update to the D7000 or to the venerable D300s. Canon still seems to be using the same 18 megapixel sensor that came out with the 7D, so not sure how much of an upgrade they can do there, but I would think they would release such a camera as well.

The issue is more that the development cycle for APS-C has seemed to move from an 18 month cycle to more like a 2 year cycle. It has to do a lot with the rate of development of new, improved sensors. This is the biggest driver of new camera sales and if Sony doesn't have better APS-C sensors available than the current 16/24 megapixel sensors then, there is less of a push to come out with a new camera as well.

Yes, so the sensor manufacturers also focus more and more on FF then...?