8 Element Takumar 50/1.4:

**Lowell Goudge** · 04-03-2011, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by ultraviolet

Is it possible that flat surface of the filter is doing that, in one occasion my FA50 with filter did that, but with out filter or a curved filter (Pentax ghostless) did not reproduce that.

Did you also have filter on the 8E ST50?

problem exists without filter also

If I had to bet, I would think it is reflections off the back of the aperture blades

stevewig · 04-03-2011, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by ultraviolet

... Did you also have filter on the 8E ST50?

No Filter - I believe that Lowell is using an SMC UV filter.

justtakingpics · 04-03-2011, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

OK

I just checked ny 8 element Tak 50.

First of all, I have verified this is the 8 element based not only on protruding rear element, but also the focus mark, serial number and weight of the lens. Let's all just assume here this is a true 8 element version.

I went out, to push the lens to the extremes. I have the origonal Takumar 50F1.4 lens hood for this lens, not just any hood.

If I shoot into the sun, lens stopped down, with the sun just beyond the corner of the lens, I get a good amount of flare stopped down, with a clear purple patch in the middle of the image

with the sun at almost angles, and stopped down all the way, It may be possible that there is some small purple in the middle of the image also, but no other flare.

With the sun behind you , or in the shade, there is no issue. It is probable this is internal reflection in the lens. and I will need to do more tests.

Just for the record, my lens has a SMC skylight filter on it.

edit note

the lens performe a whole lot better with the much longer hood of the 135F3.5 attached, and no apparent vignetting.

Still, however, I can see when shooting into the light even when no noticible flare, a little purple tinge or shading to shots, shen stopped right down.

Second edit note, First tests on my *istD, still there but less obvious on my K10D

I don't understand how you made sure you had the 8 element version. I just purchased the 50 1.4 and don't know if I have the "good" one or the yellow version. I can't see any yellow by just looking through it (I don't have the screw adapter yet.)

ultraviolet · 04-03-2011, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

problem exists without filter also If I had to bet, I would think it is reflections off the back of the aperture blades

Yes, I just checked that it happens with or with out a filter on a 8E ST50.

Originally posted by justtakingpics

I don't understand how you made sure you had the 8 element version. I just purchased the 50 1.4 and don't know if I have the "good" one or the yellow version. I can't see any yellow by just looking through it (I don't have the screw adapter yet.)

You will find lot of info about that in the following link:
1) https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/114298-how-rea...8-element.html

Last edited by ultraviolet; 04-18-2011 at 08:33 PM.

**Lowell Goudge** · 04-03-2011, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by justtakingpics

I don't understand how you made sure you had the 8 element version. I just purchased the 50 1.4 and don't know if I have the "good" one or the yellow version. I can't see any yellow by just looking through it (I don't have the screw adapter yet.)

The tell tale points are a protruding rear element (convex not flat), the weight of the lens and the position of the IR focus point. All these are well documented but weight I'd the most accurate

Laurentiu Cristofor · 04-04-2011, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by stevewig

Thanks for taking the time to reply Laurentiu, but you missed the fact that I was using a lens hood (in the original question).

I shall be trying again using a longer hood.

Oops. I missed that indeed.

I don't think I ever used my copy at f/8 yet, but I'll try it outdoors the next time I get a chance, to see if I get this effect.

**Lowell Goudge** · 04-04-2011, 05:04 AM

not to scare you but.. here is what the 8 element super tak can do with no hood, and strong side light outside the field of view

the second shot is a 50% resize (reduced) out of th emiddle 10% of a K10D frame using the exact same lens.

As you can see, the lens is very very sharp, but also very prone to flare.

I had not shot with it much in bright daylight before reading the post here, so I took it out to try. I use the 50mm most often at night, or indoors

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

View Picture EXIF

stevewig · 04-04-2011, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

not to scare you but.. here is what the 8 element super tak can do with no hood, and strong side light outside the field of view

the second shot is a 50% resize (reduced) out of th emiddle 10% of a K10D frame using the exact same lens.

As you can see, the lens is very very sharp, but also very prone to flare.

I had not shot with it much in bright daylight before reading the post here, so I took it out to try. I use the 50mm most often at night, or indoors

Lowell, did you notice during any of your testing whether the SMC filter reduced the flare at all? My guess would be that it had no effect.

**Lowell Goudge** · 04-04-2011, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by stevewig

Lowell, did you notice during any of your testing whether the SMC filter reduced the flare at all? My guess would be that it had no effect.

I tried with and without filter and also with and without a hoya circular polarizer. Filter did not change mush if anything

The rainbow is a behavior which appears when the sun is inside the full frame image circle but outside the DSLR image circle. I could easily see it, and all the other impacts of flare, i.e. loss of contrast and the aperture shape when present, through the viewfinder.

I have also noticed, when shooting at night my super taks are somewhat vunerable to internal reflections from bright lights, although this is also a filter issue. The SMC filters are the best out of pentax, hoya, canon, nikon, kenko and some cheaper brands tested, but do nothing here.

I find once the sun is at your back it all goes away, and using flash (about F11 and the K10D internal flash in manual mode) the images are pretty good as my cat's nose proves.

I have noticed similar loss of contrast on some other M42 lenses especially wider ones when shooting with the sun close to the angle of view. I suspect that these lenses would benefit from an optimum designed tulip lens hood.

I have not noticed this problem with longer lenses, but it is hard for me to make a general statement for my M42 lenses. I have them scattered all over the map from a manufacturer's point of view and even within pentax from an age point of view, with almost the entire range of ages represented.

24mmF2.5 Tameron Adaptall II
28mmF2.5 vivitar
35mmF2 S-M-C Tak
50mmF1.4 super tak (8 element)
55mmF2 SMC Tak
58mmF2 Helios 44
85mmF1.9 Super Tak
105mmF2.8 Vernon Edonar Preset
135mmF2.8 Tele-Lentar
135mmF3.5 S-M-C Tak
200mmF3.5 Tak preset

The only other one so far that I have seen loss of contrast with at all, but no where near his bad is the vivitar 28. Clearly I need to do more testing.

stevewig · 04-04-2011, 08:51 AM

Yes, It seems that even with zero sun outside (its raining) you can still get this flare. Look at the purple in the center (taken at f11)

stevewig · 04-04-2011, 08:59 AM

I also think that it is off the aperture blades because its always central and is only a problem at small apertures. Probably the flare from the above shot was caused by the window reflections because if I shoot away from the windows everything seems OK.

**Lowell Goudge** · 04-04-2011, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by stevewig

I also think that it is off the aperture blades because its always central and is only a problem at small apertures. Probably the flare from the above shot was caused by the window reflections because if I shoot away from the windows everything seems OK.

Funny, I can make the same shot with my copy.

It seems to be the nature of the beast. mine is not as visible an issue as your's so maybe it is an indication of wear, and shine of the blades.

It really seems to be only at extreme small apertures, for the slight purple tinge, but does impact lens use specifically on color.

One point to note is that many of these lenses were never shot with color film origonally.

fikkser · 04-06-2011, 02:06 AM

Looked through alot of pics taken with my 8 element takumar. Seems I got purple spots on some images, but they are alot bigger, like a big hexagon flare.

First there are orange hexagons in the edges, and in the middle I got a purple hexagon in one shot. Hard to see from other pictures, but it seems to be a faint pruple hexagon on another shot, but not as pronounced, can't really see the edges of it and it's quite spread with most saturation in the middle, looks a bit like the flare on the building posted above.

Look at the image, taken when I was comparing flare between a coated 7 element and the 8 element. No orange hexagons, Maybe a faint one beehind the purple. The orange ones is mostly seen when the sun is out side the frame.

stevewig · 04-06-2011, 05:11 AM

Yeah, looks like you got some genuine lens flare in this case plus this Purple Hex that seems to occur at f16, f11 and faintly at f8 anytime (or frequently) when your back is not to the sun (reflections from the aperture blades????).

fikkser · 04-06-2011, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by stevewig

Yeah, looks like you got some genuine lens flare in this case plus this Purple Hex that seems to occur at f16, f11 and faintly at f8 anytime (or frequently) when your back is not to the sun (reflections from the aperture blades????).

If it's reflections from the blades, it should be a problem with some other lenses too. I've never heard about it before.

04-04-2011, 08:51 AM	#25
stevewig Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 773 Original Poster	Yes, It seems that even with zero sun outside (its raining) you can still get this flare. Look at the purple in the center (taken at f11) Attached Images

04-06-2011, 02:06 AM	#28
fikkser Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Borlänge, Sweden Posts: 373	Looked through alot of pics taken with my 8 element takumar. Seems I got purple spots on some images, but they are alot bigger, like a big hexagon flare. First there are orange hexagons in the edges, and in the middle I got a purple hexagon in one shot. Hard to see from other pictures, but it seems to be a faint pruple hexagon on another shot, but not as pronounced, can't really see the edges of it and it's quite spread with most saturation in the middle, looks a bit like the flare on the building posted above. Look at the image, taken when I was comparing flare between a coated 7 element and the 8 element. No orange hexagons, Maybe a faint one beehind the purple. The orange ones is mostly seen when the sun is out side the frame. Attached Images Last edited by fikkser; 04-06-2011 at 02:39 AM.

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04-03-2011, 08:43 AM	#16
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by ultraviolet Is it possible that flat surface of the filter is doing that, in one occasion my FA50 with filter did that, but with out filter or a curved filter (Pentax ghostless) did not reproduce that. Did you also have filter on the 8E ST50? problem exists without filter also If I had to bet, I would think it is reflections off the back of the aperture blades

04-03-2011, 09:34 AM	#17
stevewig Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 773 Original Poster	Originally posted by ultraviolet ... Did you also have filter on the 8E ST50? No Filter - I believe that Lowell is using an SMC UV filter.

04-03-2011, 02:02 PM	#18
justtakingpics Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 288	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge OK I just checked ny 8 element Tak 50. First of all, I have verified this is the 8 element based not only on protruding rear element, but also the focus mark, serial number and weight of the lens. Let's all just assume here this is a true 8 element version. I went out, to push the lens to the extremes. I have the origonal Takumar 50F1.4 lens hood for this lens, not just any hood. If I shoot into the sun, lens stopped down, with the sun just beyond the corner of the lens, I get a good amount of flare stopped down, with a clear purple patch in the middle of the image with the sun at almost angles, and stopped down all the way, It may be possible that there is some small purple in the middle of the image also, but no other flare. With the sun behind you , or in the shade, there is no issue. It is probable this is internal reflection in the lens. and I will need to do more tests. Just for the record, my lens has a SMC skylight filter on it. edit note the lens performe a whole lot better with the much longer hood of the 135F3.5 attached, and no apparent vignetting. Still, however, I can see when shooting into the light even when no noticible flare, a little purple tinge or shading to shots, shen stopped right down. Second edit note, First tests on my *istD, still there but less obvious on my K10D I don't understand how you made sure you had the 8 element version. I just purchased the 50 1.4 and don't know if I have the "good" one or the yellow version. I can't see any yellow by just looking through it (I don't have the screw adapter yet.)

04-03-2011, 02:10 PM	#19
ultraviolet Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 687	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge problem exists without filter also If I had to bet, I would think it is reflections off the back of the aperture blades Yes, I just checked that it happens with or with out a filter on a 8E ST50. Originally posted by justtakingpics I don't understand how you made sure you had the 8 element version. I just purchased the 50 1.4 and don't know if I have the "good" one or the yellow version. I can't see any yellow by just looking through it (I don't have the screw adapter yet.) You will find lot of info about that in the following link: 1) https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/114298-how-rea...8-element.html Last edited by ultraviolet; 04-18-2011 at 08:33 PM.

04-03-2011, 05:06 PM	#20
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by justtakingpics I don't understand how you made sure you had the 8 element version. I just purchased the 50 1.4 and don't know if I have the "good" one or the yellow version. I can't see any yellow by just looking through it (I don't have the screw adapter yet.) The tell tale points are a protruding rear element (convex not flat), the weight of the lens and the position of the IR focus point. All these are well documented but weight I'd the most accurate

04-04-2011, 01:41 AM	#21
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by stevewig Thanks for taking the time to reply Laurentiu, but you missed the fact that I was using a lens hood (in the original question). I shall be trying again using a longer hood. Oops. I missed that indeed. I don't think I ever used my copy at f/8 yet, but I'll try it outdoors the next time I get a chance, to see if I get this effect.

04-04-2011, 07:16 AM	#23
stevewig Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 773 Original Poster	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge not to scare you but.. here is what the 8 element super tak can do with no hood, and strong side light outside the field of view the second shot is a 50% resize (reduced) out of th emiddle 10% of a K10D frame using the exact same lens. As you can see, the lens is very very sharp, but also very prone to flare. I had not shot with it much in bright daylight before reading the post here, so I took it out to try. I use the 50mm most often at night, or indoors Lowell, did you notice during any of your testing whether the SMC filter reduced the flare at all? My guess would be that it had no effect.

04-04-2011, 08:24 AM	#24
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by stevewig Lowell, did you notice during any of your testing whether the SMC filter reduced the flare at all? My guess would be that it had no effect. I tried with and without filter and also with and without a hoya circular polarizer. Filter did not change mush if anything The rainbow is a behavior which appears when the sun is inside the full frame image circle but outside the DSLR image circle. I could easily see it, and all the other impacts of flare, i.e. loss of contrast and the aperture shape when present, through the viewfinder. I have also noticed, when shooting at night my super taks are somewhat vunerable to internal reflections from bright lights, although this is also a filter issue. The SMC filters are the best out of pentax, hoya, canon, nikon, kenko and some cheaper brands tested, but do nothing here. I find once the sun is at your back it all goes away, and using flash (about F11 and the K10D internal flash in manual mode) the images are pretty good as my cat's nose proves. I have noticed similar loss of contrast on some other M42 lenses especially wider ones when shooting with the sun close to the angle of view. I suspect that these lenses would benefit from an optimum designed tulip lens hood. I have not noticed this problem with longer lenses, but it is hard for me to make a general statement for my M42 lenses. I have them scattered all over the map from a manufacturer's point of view and even within pentax from an age point of view, with almost the entire range of ages represented. 24mmF2.5 Tameron Adaptall II 28mmF2.5 vivitar 35mmF2 S-M-C Tak 50mmF1.4 super tak (8 element) 55mmF2 SMC Tak 58mmF2 Helios 44 85mmF1.9 Super Tak 105mmF2.8 Vernon Edonar Preset 135mmF2.8 Tele-Lentar 135mmF3.5 S-M-C Tak 200mmF3.5 Tak preset The only other one so far that I have seen loss of contrast with at all, but no where near his bad is the vivitar 28. Clearly I need to do more testing.

04-04-2011, 08:59 AM	#26
stevewig Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 773 Original Poster	I also think that it is off the aperture blades because its always central and is only a problem at small apertures. Probably the flare from the above shot was caused by the window reflections because if I shoot away from the windows everything seems OK.

04-04-2011, 10:32 AM	#27
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by stevewig I also think that it is off the aperture blades because its always central and is only a problem at small apertures. Probably the flare from the above shot was caused by the window reflections because if I shoot away from the windows everything seems OK. Funny, I can make the same shot with my copy. It seems to be the nature of the beast. mine is not as visible an issue as your's so maybe it is an indication of wear, and shine of the blades. It really seems to be only at extreme small apertures, for the slight purple tinge, but does impact lens use specifically on color. One point to note is that many of these lenses were never shot with color film origonally.

04-06-2011, 05:11 AM	#29
stevewig Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 773 Original Poster	Yeah, looks like you got some genuine lens flare in this case plus this Purple Hex that seems to occur at f16, f11 and faintly at f8 anytime (or frequently) when your back is not to the sun (reflections from the aperture blades????).

04-06-2011, 12:20 PM	#30
fikkser Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Borlänge, Sweden Posts: 373	Originally posted by stevewig Yeah, looks like you got some genuine lens flare in this case plus this Purple Hex that seems to occur at f16, f11 and faintly at f8 anytime (or frequently) when your back is not to the sun (reflections from the aperture blades????). If it's reflections from the blades, it should be a problem with some other lenses too. I've never heard about it before.