31ltd versus Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f1.2 Version 1

DanielT74 · 03-20-2012, 02:32 AM

Since I have sold my beloved 31ltd, before bidding her farewell, I thought I's quickly compare it to the lens that is taken her place - the Voigtlander 35mm f1.2 in M-mount (to sit on my Nex-5n).

The Voigt I have is the limited edition chrome version. It's significantly bigger and heavier than the 31ltd, the focus is much stiffer but nicely dampened. It's a big and impressive lens except on the NEX, you don't really want big. Of course on the NEX, 31ltd needs an adapter which makes it significantly bulkier but we don't have that problem with the K-5.

Pentax can focus down to 0.3m while the Voigtlander only to 0.7m except with Hawk's factory helicoid adapter when it goes down to about 0.3m.

So how do these two lenses which are similarly specified and command a very similar price compare?

Leica users have raved about the Voigt even comparing it to the 7k Summilux 35 FLE and it's certainly gathered a following. I expected this newer and better specced lens to trounce our little beauty, but see for yourselves.

This is of course a quick and dirty imprecise test and I will try to do a few more in the morning before sending the lens on to its lucky new owner.

PS It looks like the first Voigt picture is taken at a faster aperture than the Pentax which shows in the shallower depth of field and smoother bokeh and of course less sharpness on the petals. I will look into this when I try to redo the test in the morning but it reconfirmed my view that we do get excellent primes from Pentax.

Last edited by DanielT74; 03-20-2012 at 02:37 AM.

Deiberson · 03-20-2012, 02:56 AM

After looking at these results.....it would appear that your down-grading. Might want to cancel the sale.

Nuff · 03-20-2012, 02:57 AM

I used to own voigt and now I own 31mm ltd. I've found the voigt to be be very soft wide open, also less contrasty. Even when it was stopped down it was soft, so I sold it. Also Voigt was very prone to CA and PF, 31mm is as well, but you need more extreme situation and it isn't anywhere near as bad as voigt. I've to say, they do not compare and 31mm spanks it in every way I can think off.

I also used to own Leica 50mm f1.4, now that was a nice lens and I really liked it. Issue is, I couldn't justify owning such an expensive lens. So I've sold it for a fair bit of profit.

DanielT74 · 03-20-2012, 03:47 AM

I don't find my Voigt to be soft wide open. Of course it sharpens up (the contrast goes up) when stopped down, but it is still quite sharp at f1.2:

But yes, in some sense it appears that I am downgrading - can't pull out of the sale though!

JVi · 03-20-2012, 07:00 AM

The crop at 1.8 says it all to me. The 31 all the way.

lightbulb · 03-20-2012, 08:13 AM

I would keep the 31ltd. It is more expensive later on to buy again :P

lytrytyr · 03-20-2012, 09:51 AM

This test is unfair on the Nokton, which is a short-register rangefinder lens.
The sharply angled light rays coming out of it
do not match well with the perpendicular sensor wells on the NEX.
So the FA 31, a telecentric lens designed for SLRs,
has an advantage on the NEX sensor.

For a fair comparison, try both lenses on film.
Or for a fair digital comparison, with 12MB CMOS sensors,
try the FA 31 on a K-r or K-x
and the Nokton on the angled sensor
of the Ricoh GXR Leica M-mountor.

JohnBee · 03-20-2012, 11:25 AM

Holy macaroni!
The 31ltd has made a believer out of me.
Great job btw.

I wonder if we could expect the results could change under controlled settings?

Quicksand · 03-20-2012, 01:36 PM

I hate to pile on, but yeah, the evidence presented points me toward the 31 Ltd.

DanielT74 · 03-20-2012, 02:38 PM

Well, I was surprised too, and lytrytyr may have a point in saying that the NEX sensor is possibly not the best for evaluating the Nokton, but at close focus when the rear element is furthest from the sensor plane, I didn't think it would matter much. I have also shot the Nokton at infinity focus and it doesn't exhibit (I think) any of the banding artifacts like the wide-angle Zeiss lenses.

I shot some more test images this morning and they came out the same - 31ltd is sharper.

Mind you sharpness isn't everything and Nokton has lovely bokeh and other characteristics, plus the ability to go to f1.2 which is significant and it's useable there. So 31ltd's victory is qualified I'd say.

PS I guess had I done the test before selling it, I may have kept it (though I do like f1.2 I must say).

Here's a Voigt @1.2 and a crop:

Ikarus · 03-20-2012, 04:52 PM

These comparisons are very hard to do right, and from what I see here, there is a problem with this test as well. In the 2.8 crops, the upper left and the lower right flower petal are actually sharper with the Nokton, which to me suggests that the focal plane in the Nokton shot was further back, possibly even behind the flower. Extrapolating from there, I'm suspecting the focal plane is not even within the 1.8 crop for the Nokton.

DanielT74 · 03-20-2012, 05:46 PM

Good point, but I redid the test with flat subject (fridge!) and got the same results - will post them up ASAP.

stevebrot · 03-20-2012, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by Deiberson

After looking at these results.....it would appear that your down-grading. Might want to cancel the sale.

... What he said...

Steve

zapp · 03-22-2012, 08:30 AM

Leica user's have raved about the 1.2/35 mm Voigtländer lens.... not really. It is a very nice lens at a very decent price level for an M lens, but 1) Leica users are no ravers and 2) the Lux 35 has its advantages...
You also want to chekc edges sharpness, ... and actually compare both on an M9 full frame - that would be a nice test.

DanielT74 · 03-22-2012, 02:19 PM

No offense to Leica users intended, zapp, I am one myself. But I don't own an M9 - if someone here (in Melbourne) does and would like to lend it to me, I'd be happy to test it some more.

A friend has lend me an old Olympus Pen 35/1.8 and I will have a look at how it performs in the coming days.

03-20-2012, 02:32 AM	#1
DanielT74 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,377	31ltd versus Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f1.2 Version 1 Since I have sold my beloved 31ltd, before bidding her farewell, I thought I's quickly compare it to the lens that is taken her place - the Voigtlander 35mm f1.2 in M-mount (to sit on my Nex-5n). The Voigt I have is the limited edition chrome version. It's significantly bigger and heavier than the 31ltd, the focus is much stiffer but nicely dampened. It's a big and impressive lens except on the NEX, you don't really want big. Of course on the NEX, 31ltd needs an adapter which makes it significantly bulkier but we don't have that problem with the K-5. Pentax can focus down to 0.3m while the Voigtlander only to 0.7m except with Hawk's factory helicoid adapter when it goes down to about 0.3m. So how do these two lenses which are similarly specified and command a very similar price compare? Leica users have raved about the Voigt even comparing it to the 7k Summilux 35 FLE and it's certainly gathered a following. I expected this newer and better specced lens to trounce our little beauty, but see for yourselves. This is of course a quick and dirty imprecise test and I will try to do a few more in the morning before sending the lens on to its lucky new owner. PS It looks like the first Voigt picture is taken at a faster aperture than the Pentax which shows in the shallower depth of field and smoother bokeh and of course less sharpness on the petals. I will look into this when I try to redo the test in the morning but it reconfirmed my view that we do get excellent primes from Pentax. Last edited by DanielT74; 03-20-2012 at 02:37 AM.

03-20-2012, 02:38 PM	#10
DanielT74 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,377 Original Poster	Well, I was surprised too, and lytrytyr may have a point in saying that the NEX sensor is possibly not the best for evaluating the Nokton, but at close focus when the rear element is furthest from the sensor plane, I didn't think it would matter much. I have also shot the Nokton at infinity focus and it doesn't exhibit (I think) any of the banding artifacts like the wide-angle Zeiss lenses. I shot some more test images this morning and they came out the same - 31ltd is sharper. Mind you sharpness isn't everything and Nokton has lovely bokeh and other characteristics, plus the ability to go to f1.2 which is significant and it's useable there. So 31ltd's victory is qualified I'd say. PS I guess had I done the test before selling it, I may have kept it (though I do like f1.2 I must say). Here's a Voigt @1.2 and a crop: Last edited by DanielT74; 03-20-2012 at 03:35 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
For Sale - Sold: Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f/1.2 ASPH II v.2 + 50mm f/1.1	aegisphan	Sold Items	6	03-01-2012 05:19 PM
Voigtlander Nokton 58 1.4 SLII	RJR	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	16	08-20-2011 02:44 PM
Where can I buy a (new) Voigtlander 58mm/1.4 Nokton in the UK?	Student	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	7	02-19-2011 01:09 PM
For Sale - Sold: Voigtlander Nokton 58mm F1.4 SL II (US)	kuau	Sold Items	3	08-09-2010 07:46 PM
Voigtlander Nokton 35mm 1.2	MJB DIGITAL	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	8	04-24-2008 08:27 PM

03-20-2012, 02:56 AM	#2
Deiberson Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 734	After looking at these results.....it would appear that your down-grading. Might want to cancel the sale.

03-20-2012, 02:57 AM	#3
Nuff Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Sydney Posts: 671	I used to own voigt and now I own 31mm ltd. I've found the voigt to be be very soft wide open, also less contrasty. Even when it was stopped down it was soft, so I sold it. Also Voigt was very prone to CA and PF, 31mm is as well, but you need more extreme situation and it isn't anywhere near as bad as voigt. I've to say, they do not compare and 31mm spanks it in every way I can think off. I also used to own Leica 50mm f1.4, now that was a nice lens and I really liked it. Issue is, I couldn't justify owning such an expensive lens. So I've sold it for a fair bit of profit.

03-20-2012, 03:47 AM	#4
DanielT74 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,377 Original Poster	I don't find my Voigt to be soft wide open. Of course it sharpens up (the contrast goes up) when stopped down, but it is still quite sharp at f1.2: But yes, in some sense it appears that I am downgrading - can't pull out of the sale though!

03-20-2012, 07:00 AM	#5
JVi Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ontario Posts: 115	The crop at 1.8 says it all to me. The 31 all the way.

03-20-2012, 08:13 AM	#6
lightbulb Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 691	I would keep the 31ltd. It is more expensive later on to buy again :P

03-20-2012, 09:51 AM	#7
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	This test is unfair on the Nokton, which is a short-register rangefinder lens. The sharply angled light rays coming out of it do not match well with the perpendicular sensor wells on the NEX. So the FA 31, a telecentric lens designed for SLRs, has an advantage on the NEX sensor. For a fair comparison, try both lenses on film. Or for a fair digital comparison, with 12MB CMOS sensors, try the FA 31 on a K-r or K-x and the Nokton on the angled sensor of the Ricoh GXR Leica M-mountor.

03-20-2012, 11:25 AM	#8
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Holy macaroni! The 31ltd has made a believer out of me. Great job btw. I wonder if we could expect the results could change under controlled settings?

03-20-2012, 01:36 PM	#9
Quicksand Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area) Posts: 1,519	I hate to pile on, but yeah, the evidence presented points me toward the 31 Ltd.

03-20-2012, 04:52 PM	#11
Ikarus Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: California Photos: Albums Posts: 484	These comparisons are very hard to do right, and from what I see here, there is a problem with this test as well. In the 2.8 crops, the upper left and the lower right flower petal are actually sharper with the Nokton, which to me suggests that the focal plane in the Nokton shot was further back, possibly even behind the flower. Extrapolating from there, I'm suspecting the focal plane is not even within the 1.8 crop for the Nokton.

03-20-2012, 05:46 PM	#12
DanielT74 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,377 Original Poster	Good point, but I redid the test with flat subject (fridge!) and got the same results - will post them up ASAP.

03-20-2012, 07:57 PM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Deiberson After looking at these results.....it would appear that your down-grading. Might want to cancel the sale. ... What he said... Steve

03-22-2012, 08:30 AM	#14
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	Leica user's have raved about the 1.2/35 mm Voigtländer lens.... not really. It is a very nice lens at a very decent price level for an M lens, but 1) Leica users are no ravers and 2) the Lux 35 has its advantages... You also want to chekc edges sharpness, ... and actually compare both on an M9 full frame - that would be a nice test.

03-22-2012, 02:19 PM	#15
DanielT74 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,377 Original Poster	No offense to Leica users intended, zapp, I am one myself. But I don't own an M9 - if someone here (in Melbourne) does and would like to lend it to me, I'd be happy to test it some more. A friend has lend me an old Olympus Pen 35/1.8 and I will have a look at how it performs in the coming days.