Thoughts about the new Limited line

Giklab · 09-09-2013, 06:07 AM

Disclaimer: This post is being written from my perspective, which is that of a guy living in Slovenia, where prices of electronic devices are usually substantially higher than anywhere else.

I thought of writing this since many people seemed disappointed at the sight of the new Ltd. lens prices. Also, our Pentax distributer is doing a discount on the DA Limiteds (to clear stock probably), and that makes for a fun comparison.

Prices are quoted: Old, discounted and new, respectively, in Euros, rounded up or down slightly to ignore cents.

DA 15mm: 750 550 600

DA 21mm: 580 430 600

DA 35mm: 510 380 650

DA 40mm: 440 325 450

DA 70mm: 610 450 650

On one hand, the prices of most lenses are similar (with the glaring exception of the 15 and 35). On the other, one could get a sweet discount buying the old Limiteds.

Now, I'd like you guys to do two things. Post what you would do in this case. Buy now, or wait? And then convert the prices into the currency of your choice, and post the prices you can get the lenses for. This should be interesting.

**savoche** · 09-09-2013, 06:33 AM

I would buy the discounted ones. No doubt in my mind. Sure, the new lenses might be somewhat better, but that is an unknown still. The discounts are known, and they are now!

Wish we would see some discounts here up north as well! But then I'd just end up buying more than what I intended

**interested_observer** · 09-09-2013, 06:53 AM

I would take the discount and run. A bird in the hand is worth several in the bush.

How significantly better can the new lenses be, over and above the current ones? Some improvement, but probably not a lot. Take the discount and be happy, all the way to the bank.

Giklab · 09-09-2013, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by savoche

Wish we would see some discounts here up north as well!

I guess it comes down to the size (or rather lack of it

) of our country. It makes many 'relationships' to become informal (plus you can literally cross the whole country and find somebody who knows somebody who you know as well).

The shop that sells Pentax is a B&M store, has been running for close to a century now, and has competent and friendly staff, and does discounts like this every now and then for lots of different brands.

lesmore49 · 09-09-2013, 06:59 AM

Haven't tried the new Limiteds...but my 40mm and 70mm Limited lens are very sharp.

JinDesu · 09-09-2013, 07:02 AM

I'd buy the new HD silver 15mm. For the 40 and the 70, probably buy the older discounted versions, but we'll see after I get the HD silver 15mm.

Mr_Canuck · 09-09-2013, 09:35 AM

If the differences between the new HD lenses and the old crappy ones are in any way detectable to the human eye, it will be under the most extreme pixel peeping under 100% controlled environment. Then again, I have not clue because I have not tried them. But this is my prediction... that there are about 98 other factors that will influence the quality of your photograph long before the mysterious and Ricoh-esque HD coating will.

Here's what I'm almost totally sure of though: these new red-banded, non-Pentax-branded lenses are a first step in the re-branding of Pentax as Ricoh. It's about branding and marketing. Period. The HD is just an excuse to do so because image quality is going to be (see above) indistinguishable one from another. You read it here first.

RicohForums.com here we come. (Someday)

bdery · 09-09-2013, 09:57 AM

My opinion is this : even though the new versions are surely excellent, the Limiteds are already regarded as among the best lenses ever made. So you cannot go wrong even with the older versions, they are just as good today as they were yesterday.

At the discounted prices you list, if you can afford them AND if you were considering purchasing some of these lenses anyway, I would buy now.

for the record I own the 21 and 40, and I've rarely seen glass with such a high quality and personality.

lytrytyr · 09-09-2013, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Giklab

Post what you would do in this case. Buy now, or wait?

My guess is that the new coating process just takes some variability out of the equation.
So if your sellers have a good return policy, buy now.

GlennG · 09-09-2013, 10:21 AM

Buy the old discounted - they are great lenses. Though of course I do not know, I bet you would be hard pressed to be able to see much difference between the two.

Originally posted by Mr_Canuck

Here's what I'm almost totally sure of though: these new red-banded, non-Pentax-branded lenses are a first step in the re-branding of Pentax as Ricoh. It's about branding and marketing. Period.

I sincerely hope that you are wrong, but I fear that you are right! But why would Ricoh start using their name (great photocopiers) for cameras? Pentax is a much better camera name than Ricoh, IMHO.

Giklab · 09-09-2013, 10:35 AM

I'd just like to say - should have pointed out in the OP - I'm not necessarily planning to buy any of these. I just threw this out to the Forum to see what everybody thought of it. (For ex. the price ratio, …)

**savoche** · 09-09-2013, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by Mr_Canuck

Here's what I'm almost totally sure of though: these new red-banded, non-Pentax-branded lenses are a first step in the re-branding of Pentax as Ricoh.

Originally posted by GlennG

I sincerely hope that you are wrong, but I fear that you are right!

Heh, for me it's the other way around, sort of. I don't really care what the label says, but I don't believe there are any plans to re-brand Pentax to anything else.

Dr Orloff · 09-10-2013, 04:38 AM

At those prices the answer is simple, buy secondhand lenses.

**monochrome** · 09-10-2013, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by Mr_Canuck

Here's what I'm almost totally sure of though: these new red-banded, non-Pentax-branded lenses are a first step in the re-branding of Pentax as Ricoh. It's about branding and marketing. Period.

Please explain what makes you totally sure these lenses are non-Pentax branded. The way I read the beauty ring the 40 says HD Pentax-DA 40mm Limited.

Your certainty is contrary to every statement made by Ricoh since they bought Pentax from Hoya. I'm not saying you aren't correct, I just want to know what makes you totally sure.

Clavius · 09-10-2013, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

Please explain what makes you totally sure these lenses are non-Pentax branded. The way I read the beauty ring the 40 says HD Pentax-DA 40mm Limited.

Off course they don't just dump it in one day. Little steps at a time. First it was removed from the company name. Then from the internet, now from the products. It's no longer a brand, Pentax doesn't exist anymore, it's merely a product line now. And they want to make sure everybody knows that. Canon-EOS, Panasonic-lumix, Ricoh-Pentax. No longer an entity like under Hoya, but just a product line. It's what happened to Minolta when it was bought my Sony all over again. Remember what Sony said about that?

Originally posted by monochrome

Your certainty is contrary to every statement made by Ricoh since they bought Pentax from Hoya. I'm not saying you aren't correct, I just want to know what makes you totally sure.

In my country there is a saying: "Actions always confirm that the words were lies." I believe in you country there is a similar saying: "Actions speak louder then words." The latter is a little less crude.

09-09-2013, 06:07 AM	#1
Giklab Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,182	Thoughts about the new Limited line Disclaimer: This post is being written from my perspective, which is that of a guy living in Slovenia, where prices of electronic devices are usually substantially higher than anywhere else. I thought of writing this since many people seemed disappointed at the sight of the new Ltd. lens prices. Also, our Pentax distributer is doing a discount on the DA Limiteds (to clear stock probably), and that makes for a fun comparison. Prices are quoted: Old, discounted and new, respectively, in Euros, rounded up or down slightly to ignore cents. DA 15mm: 750 550 600 DA 21mm: 580 430 600 DA 35mm: 510 380 650 DA 40mm: 440 325 450 DA 70mm: 610 450 650 On one hand, the prices of most lenses are similar (with the glaring exception of the 15 and 35). On the other, one could get a sweet discount buying the old Limiteds. Now, I'd like you guys to do two things. Post what you would do in this case. Buy now, or wait? And then convert the prices into the currency of your choice, and post the prices you can get the lenses for. This should be interesting.

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09-09-2013, 06:33 AM	#2
savoche Master of the obvious Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Lowlands of Norway Posts: 18,311	I would buy the discounted ones. No doubt in my mind. Sure, the new lenses might be somewhat better, but that is an unknown still. The discounts are known, and they are now! Wish we would see some discounts here up north as well! But then I'd just end up buying more than what I intended

09-09-2013, 06:53 AM	#3
interested_observer Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Tumbleweed, Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,707	I would take the discount and run. A bird in the hand is worth several in the bush. How significantly better can the new lenses be, over and above the current ones? Some improvement, but probably not a lot. Take the discount and be happy, all the way to the bank.

09-09-2013, 06:56 AM	#4
Giklab Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,182 Original Poster	Originally posted by savoche Wish we would see some discounts here up north as well! I guess it comes down to the size (or rather lack of it ) of our country. It makes many 'relationships' to become informal (plus you can literally cross the whole country and find somebody who knows somebody who you know as well). The shop that sells Pentax is a B&M store, has been running for close to a century now, and has competent and friendly staff, and does discounts like this every now and then for lots of different brands.

09-09-2013, 06:59 AM	#5
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,342	Haven't tried the new Limiteds...but my 40mm and 70mm Limited lens are very sharp.

09-09-2013, 07:02 AM	#6
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	I'd buy the new HD silver 15mm. For the 40 and the 70, probably buy the older discounted versions, but we'll see after I get the HD silver 15mm.

09-09-2013, 09:35 AM	#7
Mr_Canuck Guest	If the differences between the new HD lenses and the old crappy ones are in any way detectable to the human eye, it will be under the most extreme pixel peeping under 100% controlled environment. Then again, I have not clue because I have not tried them. But this is my prediction... that there are about 98 other factors that will influence the quality of your photograph long before the mysterious and Ricoh-esque HD coating will. Here's what I'm almost totally sure of though: these new red-banded, non-Pentax-branded lenses are a first step in the re-branding of Pentax as Ricoh. It's about branding and marketing. Period. The HD is just an excuse to do so because image quality is going to be (see above) indistinguishable one from another. You read it here first. RicohForums.com here we come. (Someday)

09-09-2013, 09:57 AM	#8
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	My opinion is this : even though the new versions are surely excellent, the Limiteds are already regarded as among the best lenses ever made. So you cannot go wrong even with the older versions, they are just as good today as they were yesterday. At the discounted prices you list, if you can afford them AND if you were considering purchasing some of these lenses anyway, I would buy now. for the record I own the 21 and 40, and I've rarely seen glass with such a high quality and personality.

09-09-2013, 10:06 AM	#9
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by Giklab Post what you would do in this case. Buy now, or wait? My guess is that the new coating process just takes some variability out of the equation. So if your sellers have a good return policy, buy now.

09-09-2013, 10:21 AM	#10
GlennG Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 824	Buy the old discounted - they are great lenses. Though of course I do not know, I bet you would be hard pressed to be able to see much difference between the two. Originally posted by Mr_Canuck Here's what I'm almost totally sure of though: these new red-banded, non-Pentax-branded lenses are a first step in the re-branding of Pentax as Ricoh. It's about branding and marketing. Period. I sincerely hope that you are wrong, but I fear that you are right! But why would Ricoh start using their name (great photocopiers) for cameras? Pentax is a much better camera name than Ricoh, IMHO.

09-09-2013, 10:35 AM	#11
Giklab Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,182 Original Poster	I'd just like to say - should have pointed out in the OP - I'm not necessarily planning to buy any of these. I just threw this out to the Forum to see what everybody thought of it. (For ex. the price ratio, …)

09-09-2013, 10:44 AM	#12
savoche Master of the obvious Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Lowlands of Norway Posts: 18,311	Originally posted by Mr_Canuck Here's what I'm almost totally sure of though: these new red-banded, non-Pentax-branded lenses are a first step in the re-branding of Pentax as Ricoh. Originally posted by GlennG I sincerely hope that you are wrong, but I fear that you are right! Heh, for me it's the other way around, sort of. I don't really care what the label says, but I don't believe there are any plans to re-brand Pentax to anything else.

09-10-2013, 04:38 AM	#13
Dr Orloff Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Brighton, England Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 512	At those prices the answer is simple, buy secondhand lenses.

09-10-2013, 05:41 AM	#14
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Mr_Canuck Here's what I'm almost totally sure of though: these new red-banded, non-Pentax-branded lenses are a first step in the re-branding of Pentax as Ricoh. It's about branding and marketing. Period. Please explain what makes you totally sure these lenses are non-Pentax branded. The way I read the beauty ring the 40 says HD Pentax-DA 40mm Limited. Your certainty is contrary to every statement made by Ricoh since they bought Pentax from Hoya. I'm not saying you aren't correct, I just want to know what makes you totally sure.

09-10-2013, 05:53 AM	#15
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by monochrome Please explain what makes you totally sure these lenses are non-Pentax branded. The way I read the beauty ring the 40 says HD Pentax-DA 40mm Limited. Off course they don't just dump it in one day. Little steps at a time. First it was removed from the company name. Then from the internet, now from the products. It's no longer a brand, Pentax doesn't exist anymore, it's merely a product line now. And they want to make sure everybody knows that. Canon-EOS, Panasonic-lumix, Ricoh-Pentax. No longer an entity like under Hoya, but just a product line. It's what happened to Minolta when it was bought my Sony all over again. Remember what Sony said about that? Originally posted by monochrome Your certainty is contrary to every statement made by Ricoh since they bought Pentax from Hoya. I'm not saying you aren't correct, I just want to know what makes you totally sure. In my country there is a saying: "Actions always confirm that the words were lies." I believe in you country there is a similar saying: "Actions speak louder then words." The latter is a little less crude.