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Forum: Pentax KP
02-13-2020, 05:33 AM
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In some ways it's superior to using ND filters:
1. Easy to nail the exposure. Basically the exposure of the first shot would be the exposure of the resulting multi-exposure.
2. No need for long-exposure noise reduction, because each exposure is short, and the noise in each frame will be averaged out by the other frames.
3. If something happens (the sun came out from behind the clouds, someone is about to walk into the frame, etc.) you can end the multi-exposure early and still have a properly exposed picture. With an ND, it will be underexposed if you end it short.
4. You can watch the picture develop on the screen! With an ND, all you see is a black rectangle until the shot is over. If something went wrong (like the tripod moved) you won't notice it until then.
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Forum: Pentax KP
02-11-2020, 07:20 PM
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Thanks for the confirmation. With your answer, I was originally going to go with the copy that had 50,000 shutter count, which was 40 bucks or so cheaper, in hopes that the previous owner simply used the ES-burst (or time-lapse) a lot. However, I noticed that the body had significantly more wear as well so I just went with the prettier one with an added bonus of a low shutter count.
At any rate, I did purchase a used KP and am waiting for it to arrive. Looking forward to hit 1 million in shutter count, then.
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Forum: Pentax KP
02-11-2020, 03:56 PM
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I just wanted to share my joy of purchasing the KP -- most likely the camera that I want the most that is out there, regardless of the price.
I purchased a K-70 last year because of the many features that are unique to Pentax, such as the astrotracer and up to 2000-shot in-camera multiple exposures. It was only after my first photo trip that I realized there was no way of using just the electronic shutter for the latter, and I noticed that I'd be spending most of the shutter's expected life within an year at the rate I was shooting away multiple exposures.
Many features of Pentax cameras make them a unique option in the market, but the 2,000 shot in-camera multiple exposure (averaging in particular) is really a one of kind. Olympus and Sigma have similar capabilities using their Live-ND and extended ISO 6, but they are both 2000 dollar cameras and only achieve 5 stops and 4 stops, respectively. With a 2,000 shot multiple exposure, you get up to 11 stops of ND-effect. Plus, if smoothing water surfaces or removing people from the streets is the main purpose of the ND-effect, I have found that the multiple exposure method is even more effective than an equivalent ND filter, because the total amount of time that passes in order to get the shot done is longer. In other words, you can achieve a pretty 10-stop-ish effect with, for instance, 256 or 512 shots instead of 1024.
Sony's older cameras allow you to do in-camera averaging via an app of up to 256 shots. This app, however, does not function with electronic shutter.
I have spent a couple of months doing research, and I have concluded that currently KP is the only camera that allows you to do in-camera averaging of more than 32 shots (Olympus Live-ND) using the electronic shutter.
So.. although I do lose quite a bit of money by selling the K-70 so soon after purchase, I am pretty confident that this purchase will keep me happy for a while.
Anyway, regarding the latter half of my tittle. Map Camera (a long-established used camera store in Japan) is currently selling several copies of good to near mint quality KP at 560-580 USD (free shipping) on ebay USA. Plus, I just got an invitation coupon for 10% off, up to 50 USD, which was perfect because of the price of the product. Check your inbox because you may have received one too. The combination got me a great condition KP for about 510 USD before tax.
Map Camera would give you a 1 year warranty for used products (!) if you were in Japan. Plus, Japanese customers rarely return products, so they are that much more serious about QC and QA compared to the average market. I'd say this pricing (especially with the coupon) is a superb deal.
Note that after a few days the discount pricing by map camera disappears, but they have so far restarted the discount pricing after a break of a day or two.
I can't wait to receive the camera....
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Forum: Pentax KP
02-11-2020, 01:31 PM
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Hi, thank you for checking. Just to reconfirm, when you took the 8 shots using burst mode, the shutter count increased 8?
I was just wondering about this because the shutter count is sometimes used to estimate the general wear of the internals, but I would assume people with a very high shutter count using KP may likely have been using ES (burst) for in-camera averaging and time-lapse, which don't actually wear down the mechanical shutter.
Thank you so much for your insight!
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Forum: Pentax KP
02-11-2020, 04:26 AM
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That would be my guess too, but could you confirm by actually shooting and checking the Exif data? I know this is a lot to ask, so please only help if you are also curious about this (or feeling exceptionally generous).
I'm not that curious about single shots because I know that the whole cycle is actuated once just like using the mechanical shutter. I am particularly curious about what happens during a burst shot using electronic shutter, in which -- I'm pretty sure -- the mirror and the shutter only move at the beginning and end of the entire burst -- not each shot.
[Edited] Wait, are you saying that the shutter moves before and after each shot during a burst as well? That might have to do with a setting of some sort. In the following video, you can see that the KP is taking multiple shots without actuating anything mechanical in between the shots (sounds only at the beginning and end of the burst).
You Tube
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src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KHSKoJlUfdo?controls=1" allowfullscreen>
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Forum: Pentax KP
02-10-2020, 09:53 PM
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Hi, would someone help me find out what happens in the following cases?
1. When you take a single photo using electronic shutter on KP, does the shutter count go up 1?
2. When you take a continuous burst of 10 photos using the electronic shutter on KP, does the shutter count go up 1? Or 10?
The reason why I ask is because the mechanical shutter should actuate only once in each case; someone was explaining somewhere that the shutter count you see in the Exif data is the number of shots taken using the mechanical shutter, so I wanted to know what happens when using the electronic shutter.
This question is only relevant to KP because as far as I know, KP is the only pentax camera that keeps the mirror up and shutter open while shooting in burst mode with the electronic shutter.
Thank you!
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Forum: Pentax K-70 & KF
01-20-2020, 10:19 PM
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Thank you again for the detailed explanation. I think I'm onto something now. I was running a third party quirky battery (rather common symptom of jumping from half full to empty fairly quickly) on fumes, which led to running the system on insufficient voltage, and when I pulled the battery out without shutting down the system fully, boom... the reset kicked in to save me from being left with a bricked camera. I'll make it a habit to not deplete the batteries completely, and at least to confirm the completion of the shutdown process before pulling out the battery.
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Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II
01-20-2020, 10:30 AM
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I am currently in the phase of only wanting to use one focal length and in this state, it's more about which camera the best lens can be mounted on. I love my K-70 (and I have no doubt I will love the KP more) but the K-1 would let me use a more attractive option for the focal length (35mm equiv.) I want. So... if you have a similar situation, maybe you can pick the lens you want to use the most first and automatically have your answer. Just a thought.
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Forum: Pentax K-70 & KF
01-19-2020, 08:06 PM
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This all just guess work, but here's what I thought might be the cause, related to your advice. When using the faulty (hypothetical) third party battery, the voltage or something is slightly off and thus the onboard battery drains while the camera is in use. The setting etc., remains there as long as there is any juice left in the external battery, but when I swapped the batteries, I remember the external battery being completely depleted (the red battery icon was flashing before the camera shut off). In this case and only in this case, because of the faulty (hypothetical) low voltage (or something) third party battery, the onboard battery has zero juice left when pulling out the external battery to swap with a new one.
At any rate, I'm fine since then regardless of the battery I am using, so rather than try to figure out the cause, I'll stick to not depleting the third party battery completely for now.
Thank you all for all the advice!
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Forum: Pentax K-70 & KF
01-19-2020, 02:56 AM
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Hi, thanks for the comment. I'm sure that's a possibility, but I doubt that's the case here. I can take out the battery and put it back in with no issues; I can leave the battery out for much longer than I did when the incident occurred without any issues. Besides, it's a K-70. It's way too early for the on-board battery to die for a product from such a great company as Pentax.
Now I'm pretty sure that the battery that was in the body "right before" the incident was the third party one -- so, related to this, there might be a small chance that the third party battery is somehow faulty and drains the onboard battery -- hence, the reset when I pulled out that one.
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Forum: Pentax K-70 & KF
01-19-2020, 01:18 AM
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This might be it. Thanks, I will look out for this.
---------- Post added 01-19-20 at 02:20 AM ----------
If not the above, this could be it. If this is the case the symptom should repeat itself more and more frequently so I'd know then.
Thank you for the advice!
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Forum: Pentax K-70 & KF
01-18-2020, 05:01 PM
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One is a factory DL190 and the other is a DL190-compatible third party battery. I pulled out a factory one and inserted a compatible one, or vice versa.
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Forum: Pentax K-70 & KF
01-18-2020, 03:03 PM
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When I was shooting the pier at Ocean Beach San Diego, I swapped my batteries and everything got reset (all settings, date and time).
I think I powered off the camera before swapping the batteries, but I am not 100% sure. The other concern is that one of the batteries in the swapped pair was a third party cheap battery.
Do any of you know if there is a known issue of K-70 resetting when swapping batteries, for instance, while leaving the power on, or when using third party batteries, etc?
Or, is there anything else that you can think of? Thanks in advance!
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
01-10-2020, 05:50 PM
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You again. She doesn't seem so greedy as you seem to have successfully held on to your KP!
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Forum: General Photography
12-20-2019, 10:56 PM
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Older cameras didn't have a mirror either. It was a smart way to let the photographer see what the film was seeing.
One could argue that the mirror was a fad (due to technical limitations).
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Forum: General Photography
10-19-2019, 05:17 AM
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Not an intrinsic benefit of mirrorless but I think having a mirrorless line that matters to the company really pushes the manufacturer to improve sensor-based AF. The change happened to Nikon as soon as they started working on Z6/7.
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Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II
10-15-2019, 06:10 AM
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I did a simple, low-precision, studio (I mean my home) test and although far from any real world scenario (no water or cloud movements), I found the color casting not an issue in the specific test I conducted. I was cheap and so far never went over about 150 shots, but next time I'm in front of moving water, I will have to bite the bullet.
More on the test here: Pentax...fix the Magenta Bug...please? - Page 3 - PentaxForums.com |
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Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II
10-15-2019, 05:08 AM
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Hi MJKoski, thank you for your input in the other threads. I wanted to experience this issue first hand so I took the plunge and spent a few thousand shutter actuations trying to get some useful data. I don't own a K-1, only a K-70, so the differences may be due to the different camera models.
I lit a white-ish wall with an LED light to create a surface with varying brightness and shot it using "Average" multiple exposure mode. I did a single shot, 2 exposures, 4, 8, 16, 32, 128, and 500 exposures. I wanted to see if the magenta casting is somewhat gradual or whether it only happens after a hitting a certain threshold. The results can be seen below.
The amount of magenta I see in the pictures slightly vary from picture to picture, but I did not see a consistent pattern of increasing magenta as the number of shots increases, nor a significant jump between the single exposure and the 500. I exaggerated the effect below, but my conclusion did not change.
A mistake, however, was made prior to this experiment. I first tried a single shot and compared it with a 128 shot multi-exposure, and there it was, the magenta casting. However, then, I realized that I had just shot the 128 shot multi-exposure using the "comparative brightness" mode. Here there is definitely an increase in magenta.
So, I must ask you, is there any chance that you were using the "comparative brightness" mode instead of averaging when you got the heavily magenta-casted shots? I only ask because I myself actually made that mistake when I conducted the experiment, as described above. In addition, the linear streaks and colorfully saturated highlights (clouds, reflections) in your sample shot is not that dissimilar from sample shots of Olympus's Live-Composite mode (e.g., https://www.creativeislandphoto.com/uploads/1/0/5/1/10515211/clouds-pb-small_orig.jpg), which is a similar type of exposure to comparative brightness multi-exposure. One more thing that gave me the idea of this possibility is that the picture of chunks of snow moving around in a body of water in your thread (Long exposure vs Average Interval Composite - PentaxForums.com) is described as an example of a 512 frame Averaging shot, but it seems to be a "comparative brightness" shot -- the chunks of snow at the time of each exposure should not be so opaque if they were averaged with 511 other exposures in which the chunk is no longer there.
For easier reference, I will embed the single shot Average, 500-exposure Average, single shot Bright, 128-exposure Bright samples below, all developed to exaggerate the effect and cropped. The last two images are further cropped in "single shot Average" vs "500-exposure Average", to demonstrate how Averaging does seem to give you advantages in shadow noise, even at extreme settings such as 500 shots. (In, K-70, at least).
single shot Average
500-exposure Average
single shot Bright
128-exposure Bright
single shot (above) vs 500 shot (below) averaging. Noise is smoothed out in the shot below.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
10-14-2019, 02:20 AM
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Thank you for the input. I've updated the OP.
So, would you say the ES mode on K1 / K1 II is good only for (1) shooting at higher shutter speeds than the mechanical shutter allows, and (2) reducing camera shake due to shutter actuation, and not at all useful for (a) shooting more quietly, nor (b) preserving the lifespan of the mechanical shutter?
Is there any other way that you see ES on K1 / K1 II useful?
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
10-14-2019, 12:27 AM
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Hi, I wanted to create one forum thread that includes all accurate information about Electronic Shutter Mode on Pentax DSLRS.
The spec sheets online only say 'Electronic Shutter: Yes" for K-1 (via FW upgrade), K-1 II, and KP, while they don't seem to share exactly the same capabilities. On the other hand, comments, etc. on places like DPreview and here seem to be muddled with too many speculations to be a reliable source for information. The manuals are not that helpful either -- they basically say the same thing across all three models, while the evidence I find online seems to suggest that KP works a bit differently from the other 2. (In the manuals, the only difference I can find is that ES is enabled with Continuous Shooting only in KP and not in K-1/K-1II)
Please, if you own any one of the following devices and are willing to actually test the operation and confirm, could you help me complete a list of Electronic Shutter related capabilities on Pentax DSLRs?
From what I have read and watched so far, it seems that KP is the only one that can actually complete a full exposure without actuating the mechanical shutter as well (except in Pixel Shift Resolution). And, I've only confirmed this in one situation: when KP is taking a burst of shots in Continuous Shooting mode, there is no sound of the mechanical shutter actuating between the individual exposures. (see: PENTAX KP ??????????????? - YouTube)
Here is a list of questions. Please advise if you have a definite answer for any of these. Also feel free to add other questions if you like.
1) Can each of these cameras complete a full exposure in single shooting mode from the LV standby screen without ever moving the mechanical shutter?
KP: Yes
K-1 (post FW upgrade): No
K-1 II: No
2) Can each of these cameras complete multiple exposures (in continuous shooting mode) from the LV standby screen without ever moving the mechanical shutter?
KP: Yes
K-1 (post FW upgrade): No
K-1 II: No
3) Can each of these cameras complete multiple exposures (in multiple-exposure / continuous shooting mode) from the LV standby screen without ever moving the mechanical shutter?
KP: Yes
K-1 (post FW upgrade): No
K-1 II: No
4) Can each of these cameras complete a single, full exposure (in multiple-exposure / single/remote/timer) from the LV standby screen without ever moving the mechanical shutter?
KP:
K-1 (post FW upgrade): No
K-1 II: No
5) Can each of these cameras complete all shots of a bracketing sequence from the LV standby screen without ever moving the mechanical shutter?
KP: Yes
K-1 (post FW upgrade): No
K-1 II: No
6) Time required for scanning the entire sensor in ES mode (rolling shutter):
KP:
K-1 (post FW upgrade): 210 ms
K-1 II:
So far, it seems that the ES modes in the mentioned cameras can be summarized as:
KP: for silent shooting (except for the mirror/mechanical actuation when entering/exiting LV), for shutter-shake reduction, for preserving mechanical-shutter life
K1 (post FW upgrade): for shutter-shake reduction
K1 II: for shutter-shake reduction
Thank you for the input: biz-engineer, parinya-ekparinya, clackers; and for raising interesting questions: Ole
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Forum: Pentax K-70 & KF
10-13-2019, 02:49 AM
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Fully electronic shutter mode. 1 minute time-lapse at 24fps = 1440 shots = 1/70th of the often rumored mechanical shutter life of 100K; I don't think this needs to be reserved as a "pro" feature since time-lapse and multiple exposure are clearly sales-points of K-70 class bodies as well. Third wheel, best AF speeds, longer battery life and professional accessories can be reserved.
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Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II
10-12-2019, 08:58 PM
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I love how you recreated the buffer filling up and the interval becoming longer after the third shot...lol
I wonder what the point of actuating the mechanical shutter in this scenario is... Perhaps this is because K-1 only added ES with a firmware update and the mechanical shutter actuation was one thing they couldn't change with just the firmware. I guess my only option is KP for now, or to wait for the new model.
Thank you for all the info!
---------- Post added 10-12-19 at 09:02 PM ----------
I know... Pentax by far has the most number of useful features, and it's great that they don't really strip away too many of them even with the entry level models. Too bad the market was a lot more interested in LV/video autofocus and 4K -- the only two things Pentax is behind at.
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Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II
10-12-2019, 04:52 AM
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The KP stays completely silent between the shots of a burst (for reference:
You Tube
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src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zb5ty_koeNM?controls=1" allowfullscreen>
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). I had assumed that this would be the same for K-1 in ES mode. (If you haven't until now) Could you try shooting a burst of 5-10 pictures with K-1 to see if the mechanical shutter actuates between the shots? (Not just before the first shot and after the last shot)
By the way, the sound you hear in the video at the beginning and the end of each burst is not the mechanical shutter - it's the aperture closing down. Is there any chance that that's what you're hearing with your K-1 also?
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Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II
10-12-2019, 04:16 AM
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Using the "Average" mode of multiple exposure, you can get an 11-stop ND filter effect with 2000 shots. It's not exactly the same because there are gaps between exposures, but one advantage is that you can stop the multiple exposure if something in the scene changes, and you'll still have a properly exposed shot.
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Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II
10-12-2019, 02:36 AM
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Wow... good to know. So the ES mode in K-1 is basically only for the higher shutter speeds? That's a shame. The KP seems to have a fully electronic mode, so I assumed the higher level K-1 featured the same. I'm sure you would have mentioned it if it were the case, but even during a burst in ES mode, the mechanical shutter actuates every single time, right? Then the K-1 won't work for me.
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