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Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 10-31-2023, 05:36 AM  
October Images
Posted By Pentax Syntax
Replies: 2
Views: 717
Nice images! That 15-30 is a versatile tool and it renders well. I like the incorporated starbursts in some of the shots. Really impressive for a zoom. I love mine!
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 08-01-2023, 05:43 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By rpjallan
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
I have done a lot of night time photography. It's another complete ballgame. Even going back to film days, sometimes I would take a whole 36 exp film just on one subject which got quite expensive.

Everything is learnable. I belonged to a camera club for many years. We would often have "beginners" turn up who didn't have a clue but the ones who were willing to put in the effort & learn often got quite good. Some even getting acceptances & awards in international competitions after a period of time.

With post processing I think you need to develop some sort of system. But the steps must be in a logical order. Try not to overuse auto settings. And try not to repeat steps if possible. Processing systems will change over time as software develops & changes. You have access to tools now that just didn't exist 5 or so years ago. There is so much different software available now but most of it has free trials available. There are also loads of tutorials available online also. You just have to have a look around to see what may work for you & give it a go. I have introduced a few new things into my workflow just in the last month that I have recently seen people doing tutorials on. You don't need to do every technique on every image but you might just see something & think 'I know the exact image that would suit that technique'. I have a photo I took in a park in Auckland, New Zealand 4 or 5 years ago & was never happy with how I processed it multiple times. But just a few weeks ago I saw a guy processing an image in Lightroom & thought that would suit this image. So I gave it a go with a few tweaks here & there & I am finally pretty happy with it.

You never know everything. Photography is a big endless learning curve.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-31-2023, 07:32 PM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By rpjallan
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
Well, I shot with film (B&W, colour print but mostly slide) for 30 years before getting my 1st Digital SLR & that was only 20 years ago when the *istD was released. They are different beasts really. Shooting slide film, you have to get everything right in the camera because there's no alternative. I also used to do a lot of printing, both B&W & colour, so that is not dissimilar to processing RAW images. A lot of work goes in to getting a print correct if you want to get the best out of it. I have seen professional printers at work. It's amazing as you really only have a limited time to do stuff. Processing RAW files is really a doddle compared to getting a good print of a difficult scene the traditional way. I often enjoy processing & printing digital files just as much as taking the images.

I do agree that some people do really over edit their images but that wasn't unknown back in the film days either...
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-31-2023, 08:29 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By IsaacReaves
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
once a zone shooter ... always a zone shooter :lol: No doubt that ETTR is the "correct" way to get an accurate exposure on digital, every time. I just seldom like the result straight from the camera. I prefer to expose for the shadows to attempt to get the macro level contrast where I want it feelings wise, then snap. And I often tweak JPGs SOOC without bothering to process the RAWS. When I expose with the camera in its best and most accurate recorder mode, it just feels as if I'm ceding all creative license purely to post processing, which I find less than ideal for how I like to shoot - even for landscapes. Different strokes!

cheers
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-30-2023, 06:21 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By rpjallan
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
Saying your processing method is unconventional is not a criticism, you have to do what works for you. Having said that, it's a bit hard to get help from others regarding post processing your images if you can't find anyone who uses that method. I'm a bit puzzled by the fact you are using auto levels multiple times (I'm sure you mentioned that previously) for example. I think a lot of your images are crying out for local adjustments. Maybe you're not willing to spend the time doing this. I rarely do any HDR processing these days. If I do, it is in ACR & Photoshop. I tend to do any exposure blending using luminosity masks or even just manually masking or dodging & burning.

Also, as far as your laptop screen is concerned, I get the feeling it may be too bright. You say it is very bright & sharp. Just because it is factory calibrated for CAD doesn't mean it is for photography. For example, I calibrate my monitor every few months & the brightness is set to 17% & the contrast to 77%. This can make a huge difference.

P.S. You should give this weekly post processing competition a go. Unfortunately, it's not as well patronised as it was in the past. There are some way out ideas popping up from time to time but it may be interesting to try processing someone else's image & compare it to others interpretations. This can be a good learning experience. It's probably a bit late for this weeks edition but have a look anyway. I have found it often gets you to have a different look at how you do things.

Post Processing Challenge #472 - PentaxForums.com
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-30-2023, 05:53 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By pschlute
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
You really need to be applying any curves or tonal adjustment selectively, not globally.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-30-2023, 04:28 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By rpjallan
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
Last night I replied to DeepSchwartz's post above suggesting this same exact thing but the post seems to have been lost in the interwebs somewhere. (Seems to happen often when I post on here).

I was also rebuffing his view on ETTR but I can't remember exactly what I wrote now. Anyway, ETTR is not perfect for all scenarios of course but in the situations that kayasaman is taking these type of images, I think it is the perfect way to go. Having said that, if the scenes dynamic range is greater than that of the camera then some bracketing & exposure blending will be necessary to record the full range of tones. Unfortunately, I think the op's attempts at HDR processing have left much to be desired. Having said that, it's not an easy thing to always get a good result with HDR & he has a very unconventional post processing method (in my eyes).
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-30-2023, 01:56 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By pschlute
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
If I may chip in here. I agree that the images are looking under-exposed. I downloaded the first image and looked at it in Photoshop. The histogram shows you have no blown highlights or crushed blacks.....BUT there is very little captured in the mid tones. The histogram looks like an inverted bell curve. In my view you need to brighten the mid tones, and the best way of doing this in PP is with the curves tool. I took your image and applied a curves adjustment layer. I painted the adjustment in using a layer mask so only the areas I wanted to affect were adjusted. I also selectively brightened a few clouds to increase contrast there too.

ps. If you are seeing this too bright it may be that your monitor screen needs calibrating. Most monitors come out of the factory adjusted too bright for photo editing and viewing.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-29-2023, 05:02 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By IsaacReaves
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
I would have to agree after looking through the album. A good tool to use in Darktable is the Levels module. If you find that the "auto" feature is brightening your image by 1-3 stops, you'll start to see that by what quantity you're underexposing the images.

Remember: in strong sunlight the camera will be underexposing the scene at 0.0 EV because it's always looking to average out to 18% gray. An accurate reading will often be as high as +1 to +2 EV in strong sunlight depending on the scene. If you subtract 2 EV from that base value, that's going to be 3-4 stops underexposed at mid-day. I find with my K-5 (which I've read meters very similar to the K-1) that heavy overcast at mid-day is about right at ~ 0.0 EV, plus or minus 0.3 EV. As the blue hour approaches and deepens and the scene gets dark, then the accurate metering would be -1 EV, as the meter will want to overexpose the image to bring the gray midpoint back to 18%.

This just takes practice. Like you I prefer also to underexpose by a bit and then lift shadow detail in post, and I've never been a fan of the ETTR philosophy. It's good to get into the habit to meter based on time of day and sky conditions, then decide where you want creative impact to be as an adjustment to an accurate baseexposure. Thinking always in terms of "highlights" will consistently lead to the wrong exposure. Get an accurate base metering, first - then figure out if you want to increase or decrease the exposure.

Of course, bracketing is always the EZ button to ensure you come away with a nice and deep saturated sky, but I find that's it is far easier to adjust the sky down in post with Darktable than to blend multiple exposures in Gimp. The automated blending tools create an output that looks too much like the old HDR images for me. but this is of course also a creative choice, not a right/wrong choice.

cheers
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-28-2023, 10:54 PM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By rpjallan
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
Try not to under expose everything so much..
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-28-2023, 02:44 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By IsaacReaves
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
yessir, that's what an order of magnitude worth of quality can do for you - enjoy!
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-22-2023, 03:24 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By rpjallan
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
Are these the top two images posted above? They appear to be. Anyway, I have downloaded them & had a quick look. Apart from being under exposed by 3 stops or more, I can't find any part of the image using the Samyang lens that is sharp. I don't know where you focused. The 28mm image is sharp in the centre & a bit soft around the edges but that could be exaggerated by where your point of focus was because most of the edges are much closer or much further away than the central part of the image - the field. I think you said you used a tripod. If so, did you have shake reduction turned off? Will play a bit more with these & upload my efforts...
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-21-2023, 04:43 PM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By UncleVanya
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
I think a few things bother me about the comparison.
1) Your exposures aren’t remotely similar.
2) your processing is a black box. It’s not easy to know of what the process steps might be doing to the files. When making these types of comparisons you need to keep Everything very similar.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-20-2023, 05:17 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By UncleVanya
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
Have you done a flashlight test on the lens? It could be hazy or filled with more than average dust which could reduce contrast.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-20-2023, 04:22 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By IsaacReaves
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
oh my, yikes! that same flare distortion you see here is likely also present in your daytime photos and responsible for washing out the image. I think that solves any debate - whether it's the model or your copy, I'd get rid of it ...



I think a modern day 2x zoom is going to be better than a legacy prime on high pixel count device like the K-1, but I have neither lens (nor a K-1, at least for the moment). My hunch is that the 20mm will come up short for landscape work on this sensor if you're chasing that hyper-realistic modern look. If not, you can easily work with these older legacy lenses to edit for their traits, instead of trying to edit to make them look like new glass. I'm after a good copy of the A 35-105mm 3.5 myself and just don't have the resources to throw at new glass. Luckily for us, Pentax's bargain bin is extensive.



I think you might be massively underestimating the amount of effort that goes into post processing to get the "pop". This particular shot of the mill house is not level, has inadequate DoF, and is maybe a bit over exposed for JPEG straight out of the camera. The luminosity coming off the foreground board is killing the eye's ability to reach past to the wheel. We can fix this.

When you were talking about difficulties to think in "art" terms, I get it ... my now-adult son is autistic, and I've made a career managing people somewhere on the spectrum in silicon valley. I studied physics and then became a software engineer, and I think a whole lot of folks like us take up photography because it allows us to take a mechanical process and leverage that to produce what other people call "art".

Don't be afraid to leverage that eye for detail and a mind for process as strengths; it's not a handicap. To borrow an often used metaphor, think of each image like a sidewalk that you want your viewer's eye to take a walk down. When you edit the image, think to yourself - what path do I need to create to make the eye's sidewalk in this shot? In your example shot of the mill wheel, straight out of the camera it starts on the foreground board and then leads right out of the frame, then we just see the rim of the wheel, then a bright section of wall. Two paths going in different directions. We want the impression of that path to go from front-to-back in the Z plane, then side to side in a controlled manner. Most times this just isn't possible to get right out of the camera, we have to edit the image to make the sidewalk go where we want the viewer to look. Sometimes that sidewalk is narrow, and other times it might be more like a wide set of stairs that narrow as the viewer ascends them. The things that draw people's attention first is brightness, negative space, macro contrast, then lines and geometric shapes, and then at the end - fine detail and micro contrast. This last element is to be savored. If the other elements don't exist, then the image will fail to hook the viewer into walking down any kind of path to appreciate what they're looking at.

I myself am doing very little composition when I take photographs - they are more like recordings that I take to make look better after getting them onto the computer. Some people strive to get everything right in the camera - which is noble and I'm happy for them, but I am also easily overwhelmed or distracted myself when on foot and on the scene. That means I need a quiet calm place to do my edits. All the same, the Godfather of photography himself, Ansel Adams, was an exacting perfectionist in the dark room and that's no accident. If you read his books - especially "the negative" - you'll see just how robotic and mechanical the world's best landscape photographer actually was! It was a revelation for me, personally, to find that the "art" was the result of an intense and extremely detailed course of actions that take place from evaluating the scene, metering and composing the scene, carefully developing the negative with the mind of an chemical engineer, and that even after all that - easily half of the work still laid before him in creating the print itself. In our case, the print is a JPEG and all the processing is there in the editing software where mistakes can have an undo history, and experiments are 100% free. Good photographs are engineered and the public values them as art. It's not the other way around. The Eiffel tower was an engineering marvel when it was built that the public has learned to romanticize. I think of photography in exactly the same way.

I hope you don't mind that I took a bit of liberty with your photograph to illustrate what's possible - but I do so to encourage you to think less about gear and more about the process of making photographs, and not simply taking them. I did most of the edits first in Darktable, then used Gimp to correct barrel distortion and apply some color grading to calm down the color palette, and do some light sharpening. I spent about an hour playing with just this one image - certainly I'm no pro retoucher :p

cheers


Mill Wheel - guest edit
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-19-2023, 04:54 PM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By epfler
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
Do not see quite where the problem is. So ... have myriads of details ... but there will _not_ be an image, in the end, only just that: a myriad of details. Let them be sharp, or not, won´t change the outcome. Now ... what should the image be about?

Asking for patterns may give a path - patterns may be associated with action, what nature has done, what a farmer has done, what animals have done (very often they have laid the paths, where very, very much later roads have been paved). Actions, suddenly. Or during one season. Or during centuries. Then there may arrive an idea for an image. The pattern may be recognized. And .... up to this point there is hardly a technical problem. It may come the image samewise from a painter with only minimalist approach, but the image arrives just as is.


Having had a short look inside your galery at the alphabet company, just stayed at one image, which for sure is an image, that one: _IMG7959-7961, given a path between trees, there is patterns, there is activity - at least someone has been there to bring this image, along to move it to some data storage. Before a path has been formed. In between the arrangement being a wood has been accomplished, someone has cultivated this as a wood land. This is patterns resting inside this image. This is about communication.


And there is problems with this image, which are purely technically to be solved - there is flare, hindering the lens from doing its job, and this is beyond creative, obviously an error situation. The image remains though to arrive as an image, it is more than just a myriad of visually apprehensible details. But the error situation, given technically, is hindering one at spending one's patience.

So, where is the problem then? A meadow for its own is just a myriad of details. be it as sharp as you want, it won't stop from being just this. It will become an image if things arrive, probably in an abstract sense, even if concrete things are just to be apprehended as things, one level above it is patterns again. So to propose it like this: you arrive with patterns. And with a language, how to communicate those patterns.

Ok, from this point on, a lot of very different questions may arrive. I won't interfere. Just go on.

Maybe it helps., going into some detail realized from perception aspects: Human eyes themselves are by far not that sharp instruments in a technical sense as all those fine lenses are. First of all, one should never forget, seeing is an act of interacting with one's own history of having grown up with seeing - otherwise seeing would be just accumulation of noise.

Maybe the above idea of patterns may continue to come in here. In a technical sense, again, the eyes allow typically only for relatively very sharp perception, inside a small circle, in the middle of one's field of view. Per eye movement the sharp center of perception is scanning for interesting details, all the time. This correlates at the same time with what a nice bokeh of a lens is about, when playing with this human gift for perception during accumulating details.

So, a meadow is simply a working field for a farmer, and, regarded visually, just an accumulation of noise, so to speak. But going on from here, when regarding an image which contains a meadow, probably it will propose inside its communicated patterns paths, for regarding more details, if it is not just noise, but an image, and for the eye then paths are presented, where one can focus more precisely.

If this interaction works nicely, it is for sure a nice image, even if only a small part is really sharp. Or maybe nothing is sharp and the patterns are hidden elsewhere ... noone knows what may happen in a big world.

Now, if this interaction is broken, and optical sharpness is technically hindered, where it is expected while regarding the image, ok, this is not a nice image then. Btw. this is a nice point, where I find those 30+ years old M- and K-lenses quite challenging, giving sometimes a slightly different approach what can be perceived as really sharp in the image in the end.

In a technical sense a new DFA lens may coma along with sharpness in more accurate manner. But the old thing may give the balance of contrast and correct rendering of details more in a way, that it helps better for the wandering eye in its move of focussing, so to find better the paths of interest - than with the more precise and accurate tools.


But nothing better is known for sure. Just a little accumulation of ideas to that points. One should not forget, in the end those lenses from a range of some better quality are in about good like crazy. So, this is time then, better first to look for one's own approaches (plus easily to be cured minor technical problems or misunderstandings).
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-19-2023, 11:08 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By IsaacReaves
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
I agree with UncleVanya, here. That thing is crying. The CA is off the charts, which is understandable for a backlit scene, but that's especially terrible. I'm guessing this lens doesn't have the best of coatings on it being targeted for astro work?

A couple of general notes about your test shot:

1) foliage in shadows will test the best of lenses. much of your test shot is in the bottom half of the exposure range.
2) that scene is back lit and causing crazy levels of CA, which will also blow out detail where highlights meet darker pixels, and wash out the rest of the image.
3) high ISO @ 1600 and higher will take any flaw in the lens and magnify it. The grain can often be used to creative effect, but sharpness and contrast will indeed suffer.

Somehow I still don't think it should look quite that bad. :( Check out this snap I took this afternoon. f8, 1/1000s @ 55mm on my 18-55. This is a JPEG crop SOOC from my ancient K-5 mk i.


streaker


Here's the kicker - this is also hand held, from inside the car doing about 50mph, basically using zone focusing method. That white spot is bug guts on the windshield. Crop area:


crop area


It's barely acceptable but I don't get that much more resolution out of this lens at infinity focus on a tripod if I'm being honest. :o When focused inside of 10 meters it's tack sharp at f5.6 ~ f11, but landscapes aren't it's strong point. Even so, that's about all I've been shooting lately. 3x and 5x zooms just aren't going to render much detail when it comes to really fine detail at or near infinity focus. You've got the right idea to be shooting with primes, but I don't think this Samyang is it.

_______________

After looking at your shots with the 28-105, I am wondering if maybe the body has some issues with AF calibration. You might want to print out one of those diagonal test charts and spend an afternoon to dial in the micro-adjustment for your AF on each of your lenses. Those should be a lot sharper than they are, even with a middle-weight 3x zoom. The sample images here in on that lens' PF gallery look quite acceptable to me.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-19-2023, 09:38 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By UncleVanya
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
The 28-105 is very good. Try it in an a/b set of images. You may be surprised.

The images you posted showed a lot of CA. CA even after correction can reduce image quality. I’m thinking this lens is struggling more than you realize.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-19-2023, 05:45 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By rpjallan
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
The mirror is always up in live view - that's how it works. So, when using live view, you don't need the viewfinder cover either. I can't tell much by the small images you have attached. I think you are going to be banging your head against a brick wall until you try a different lens on this body. In my opinion comparing it to a combination of a different body & a different lens isn't going to help you solve the problem.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-17-2023, 07:38 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By hjoseph7
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
Using the 'CLARITY' function in Photoshop should help a little, also try using 'CONTRAST' button after that, but be careful wihth the contrast. If your software editing package lets you sharpen individual pixels, that should help also.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-17-2023, 07:28 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By IsaacReaves
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
Ahh - a real Garry Winogrand man! :D "I photograph to find out what something will look like photographed." Nothing wrong with that at all. Truth be told, the common formulas for landscape are always at risk of dissolving into cliché. This puts the content of the photograph at risk of having less value than our interest in reproducing it as a challenge to ourselves.

I would encourage you to experiment more with telephoto lengths to get better isolation and help narrow your mental focus. I say that as someone who has always struggled at the wider angles; it's one thing to muse on composition when I'm calm at the desk, but quite few to none of these faculties seem to be present for me either when I'm in a field holding the camera. :lol:




Likewise I also lean on bracketing quite a bit, enough so that I have the "raw" button programmed a hot key for bracketed exposures. It costs nothing and is 100% great insurance. I see that you're a Hugin user from above, which can also be used to align images and saved to intermediates. I do this all the time, then zap them the best 2 or 3 into a photo editor to mask and blend.

It sounds to me like you have a pretty good grasp of the technicals. The more you've shared the more I am inclined to agree about the lens being the culprit. 28mm just isn't that wide, not enough to turn your mid-field into oatmeal like that. When you head back out, I think it would be worth mounting a zoom that's fixed to the same 28mm focal length, choosing 2-3 fixed points to focus on from the same position to take back home and analyze. Will look forward to seeing the results of your experiments.

cheers

---------- Post added 07-17-23 at 07:37 AM ----------




It sounds like you have a process that works for you; I'm not here to convince you otherwise. My point was to counter your claims about it being either easy or pulling them off "without much care". What might seem simple to you can be quite overwhelming for others who are non-technical.

cheers
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-17-2023, 05:10 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By biz-engineer
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
Stitching works for anyone who is willing to do it.

---------- Post added 17-07-23 at 14:18 ----------


I think the problem is how to get a lot of details out of a camera format that can't do it. Pretty much all lenses resolve an average 50% contrast 40 Lppmm to 60 lppmm (best case). So, expecting 120lppmm is going to be like banging your head on a wall. You just have to accept the limitation and work around it, and all of a sudden everything becomes easier.

---------- Post added 17-07-23 at 14:20 ----------


The hyperfocal distance depends on the circle of confusion, or viewing distance+enlargement. Without a given print size (or enlargement) and viewing distance, there is no point to discuss further.

---------- Post added 17-07-23 at 14:24 ----------

You are right. Been there already. However, my method systematically solves this problem. Manual focusing at frame corners or edges solves this problem because the focus planes will intersect at the seams of image stitches.

---------- Post added 17-07-23 at 14:28 ----------


Any focal length works well, provided there is no parallax error of image elements at close distances. So you can stitch images taken with 20mm lens and have no alignment issues whatsoever. You can also stitich images taken with a 90mm lens and have huge problems of alignment due to parallax. Lens distorsion is no problem it is corrected by software.

---------- Post added 17-07-23 at 14:29 ----------


Yes, it's this , or buying a larger format system (e.g GFX100 100Mpixels).


That mean you haven't yet figured it out completely. Since I fully understood how it works, it always work for me, I stitch hundreds of panos from one photo shoot, mostly have the batch processor run overnight while I'm sleeping.


Not if you use a master file like I indicated in my post above. A couple of years ago, I thought about motion to be an impossible to solve problem for image stitching. I even asked for help in the forum , without success. Then I got the idea to use a master file both for the composition and to deal with changing light and motion, and this ideas worked around the limitation of panoramic photography. I am now making large panos of race cars (moving full speed), as crazy as it may sound, but it works. Even in Hugin freeware you can use masks to include or exclude moving elements. I feel like I should write a lecture about image stitching to save people all the struggle and time I went through myself and help people immediately succeed with image stitching.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-17-2023, 04:43 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By IsaacReaves
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
yeah, a real pano! If you can merge two good shots like this I don't think you have an issue with an decentered lens. For sure it would show up in the starfields in your astro work.

I think a lot of what you're wrestling with here is figuring out just how difficult it can be to shoot good landscapes and learning how many variables there are. I don't have the time I'd like to have to invest in landscape myself and am no expert. I know just enough to judge why my shots are always bad, but I've come to terms with accepting soft images and leverage that for feeling instead of working against it. I will say that, on a budget as I am, finding lenses that resolve both color and detail in foliage is very difficult and you're probably not going to have great results with that specific lens. Having said that, I think it's easy to get trapped into chasing technicals in an image and forgetting the most important part ... composition.

I'm fond of the work from a Colorado based photographer by the name of Scott Wilson, who goes by WilsonAxpe and shoots wildlife and landscape. I like his images because mine are all rubbish and I too want to learn. I have tended to shoot more street and travel. When I look at his images I note that there is always strong foreground interest to balance out the composition. If you (like me!) often find that your camera is pointed at the vastness of a scene and always focusing at infinity and evaluating the quality of the image on its technicals, those shots will be boring about 98% of the time, per biz-engineer's earlier blunt but honest and 100% correct assessment. I most often have the same problem. But lets look at one of Scott's boring "into the abyss" shots.


COLORADO FALL by WilsonAxpe, on Flickr


Your K1 has 16 more megapickles to play with than Wilson's 20mp Nikon D6. This is shot on a 70-200 f2.8 zoom - a high quality lens but nothing exotic. My point is this: if you (and really I'm talking as much to myself here) want shots like this, the #1 thing required is patience. You see the dark clouds in the background, but strong lighting on the color of the middle ground. Without a beam of strong light those trees would also be mush - even from a good lens. He had to wait.

I can also start to easily see that the mountains have been subdued by 1-2 ev to make the foreground pop, likely made with a soft gradient filter in-camera and further work in post. Go on now and pixel peep at full resolution. You'll see that even with good light and contrast that there are clumps of the trees that are somewhat muddy. The strands in the foreground look nice and sharp at full-screen, but if you pixel peep it's obvious that the image is not over sharpened, either. Your starfield in the pano is way sharper than the ridge line of the mountain in Scott's image.

Single image. Good composition. Timing. It all has to come together. I think as a quick rule of thumb for wide angle lenses you want to photograph strong foreground subjects that use the landscape as an "acceptably sharp" background, and use telephoto lengths to hunt for distance scenes that can be stacked into layers. Start with composition first, then if the sharpness is subtracting from the image as a technical concern, follow the advice in this thread to test and start removing variables: turn off the HDR, make sure you've got adequate shutter speed to eliminate motion blur, abd focus on single shots of the same scene at different apertures and different focus points to compare in post. Finally, make sure you're not setting your expectations too high about resolving fine detail.

I'm off to follow some of my own advice here :D cheers
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-17-2023, 03:03 AM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By IsaacReaves
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
I love panos and enjoy the work required in post, but this statement is really lens dependent and has a veritable boat load of gotchas. Over the years I've concluded that panos are a poor choice for landscape unless you're very comfortable with your workflow to produce repeatable results. IMO the OP is better off building confidence in his skills before moving on to focus stacking and panos, otherwise it'll be a very frustrating hit and miss. The learning curve here is huge.

1) focus stacking for landscape is often subpar to an accurately hyperfocal single shot. Having tack sharp image front to back looks artificial - our own eyes don't evaluate foreground to infinity this way, and chasing that kind of surrealism betrays the scene and the content for impressing the viewer with technicalities instead of emotion. After the editorial reasons to not use it, focus breathing is a real nemesis with many lenses and it's hard to pull off with a cheap lens. Average zooms will be bad, and wide angle primes are often terrible here as well.

2) for shooting panos, one must be meticulous about focusing in MF mode and keeping the DOF consistent across the grid. Any mistakes in the DOF in one part of the frame will ruin the final product.

3) requires a high quality short telephoto - about 90mm is the sweet spot IMO. If there is vignetting or distortion in the corners it throws off the software. When it works, panos are great to make a cheap lens look like a $5000 prime by getting rid of soft corners. It's magic, but in my opinion, there is little point in swinging a wide angle or 35/50 mm around for panos. Stop and assess your composition, then get it right in a single frame. A well exposed and composed frame with a cheap zoom will beat a pano shot with a prime tele 8 times out of 10.

4) requires identifying, investing in, and mastering the pano software. I'm a career software engineer and comfortable compiling and using Hugin and various cli tools. It still took me a year to get good with it. It still drives me a bit mad and results are often inconsistent from expectation.

5) the final image of panos are most often substandard to a well composed and accurately focused single shot from the tripod. Motion blur and dynamic scene conditions are the enemy of pano photography. If it's a partly cloudy day and the light is changing, forget it. The exposure differences will kill sharpness in one part of the frame, and blow out highlights in another part.

Summing up - all the problems you have in 1 frame, multiply them by 4-12. For landscape work I am now of the opinion that it's much better to compose a shot and wait for interesting light than to "record" a pano and try to make it look interesting in post. For travel photography when shooting tele primes, or for shooting architecture it can be a great tool to have in your process. I'm comfortable with the process and can quickly capture a building with a grid of ~ 6 or 9 shots (in rows of 3), all hand-held. I enjoy doing it, but it's complicated and takes some practice to nail the technique - and even then it's not always reliable. fwiw, ymmv, etc.

cheers
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 07-16-2023, 04:57 PM  
How to capture detail in meadows and wide angle flora?
Posted By UncleVanya
Replies: 100
Views: 3,766
I think diffraction might play a small role. I think shutter shock might play a small role. I think lighting may factor in. I think focus accuracy may be in play here also. Combine all and you get mush. Control the rest and let one be a little off and the image is much improved. In other words many small factors added up.
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