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Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 03-11-2009, 11:34 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Sorry for the mega bump but Amtrak has updated its photography policy to be much more liberal. The NPPA approves.

Amtrak's Newly Published Photo Guidelines Developed With NPPA's Input
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 02-02-2009, 09:33 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Sorry for the bump but for those that followed this thread, Kerzic is apparently going to be featured on the Colbert Report in a segment called "Nailed 'Em" on tonight's (02/02) show. Based on what I've seen of the show Colbert will sarcastically talk about how they nailed Kerzic and saved the world from his photography or something.

I don't know that's just what I predict. They could also just make fun of Kerzic, who is ripe for parody himself.

Anyway, there's a heads up.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-07-2009, 10:28 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Fixed.

I won't say that Duane's dumb photos are more important than Rosa Parks and her actions, but our rights as citizens as a whole to take pictures IS pretty damn important to me.

I defend Duane's right to take blurry pictures of trains to death, er, I mean bruised wrists.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-07-2009, 01:46 AM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Haha, I thought it was funny that some people basically said, "Man, he should be arrested for how bad those pictures suck."

I think that lensbaby crap is annoying, but it has nothing to do with the incident! Haha.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-06-2009, 07:51 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
It doesn't matter when he got the idea to take pictures for the contest. I don't even believe him when he says he was there to take pictures for the contest. I don't even care why he was there. If he was there to take pictures for his personal enjoyment because he likes to look at them or he likes to jerk off to them, I don't care.

I don't care that he lingered on the platform. I don't care that he loitered on the platform. I don't care that people call it trespassing to linger and loiter on the platform while taking pictures.

Our society has gotten so paranoid over the most innocent little things. Terrorists might blow up you and your family whether you like it or not and whether you take precautions or not. We cannot live in fear for the rest of our lives. We cannot let officials use those fears to push through stupid legislation, policies, or procedures that only hurt well-meaning individuals.

Beef up intel. Go where the terrorists are. They weren't in Iraq, I'll tell you that much. I support and continue to support the any efforts to find Osama Bin Laden, but they apparently aren't interested in that. Maybe Duane should go over there and find him himself so he can take some goddamn pictures of trains in Penn Station.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-06-2009, 05:32 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Then why were the police focused on his photography, going as far to ask him to delete the pictures?

Here's how it should have went down. "Hey man, it's busy right now and we don't allow people to linger on the platform." "Okay, see ya later."

If Kerzic had refused to leave at that point, then fine. But the guy was responding to his pictures being asked to be deleted and his ability to photograph trains on the platform. Even security crazy New York shouldn't be this insane.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-06-2009, 01:08 AM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Here's some precedent from Washington DC.

NARP: National Association of Railroad Passengers

Chambers is the assistant manager of Union Station in DC.






QuoteQuote:

Rep. John Mica (R-FL) highlighted possible security deficiencies, relating that, when he ate lunch at the station food court, he was “panhandled at least four times… I haven’t been back since because it was such an unpleasant experience.” Norton quipped, “Because [security guards] were too busy going after photographers!” Ball said that handling the homeless is “a delicate issue… They’re citizens… and we can’t just kick them out.” Norton said, “But you kick photographers out!” Ball said that the security guards do not have arrest power. Norton noted that they have threatened photographers with arrest.



Amtrak's own police are being as thuggish as the DC security guards.

Here's what Norton said to Fox 5.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-06-2009, 12:00 AM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Alright. The next time I intend to ride Amtrak and I see a no trespassing sign, I will turn around, leave, and drive my car to my destination instead. Don't know why anyone would patronize a business that considers taking pictures an act of trespassing.

At least when I drive I don't get my bags checked either.
Forum: General Talk 01-05-2009, 10:52 PM  
A selling thread being pulled-- Appeal to forum
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 41
Views: 6,968
Guy has a issue, and it's immediately time to go? God forbid a guy air his grievances on a forum he obviously enjoys. No, the usual response is, "go away if you don't like it".
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 10:46 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Trespassing: Encyclopedia of Everyday Law

Any barriers into Penn Station? Hell, the train delivered him there!

Taking photographs did not interfere with the facility's ability to deliver passengers to and from the facility on trains.

He was not asked to leave.

I don't even know why the officers, acting on behalf of Amtrak, would want to ask him to leave. They certainly have the authority to ask him to leave, and in the end all Kerzic could do was write a letter to Amtrak. In any case, he was not prosecuted in the end, and the police let him go, implying, at least to me, that guys like Kerzic should not be arrested in the future, therefore avoiding wasting anybody's time.

It's a crappy situation.
Forum: General Talk 01-05-2009, 10:41 PM  
Probably the longest exposure ever
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 18
Views: 3,911
Six months? I'm surprised that police didn't discover it and send in a bomb detonating robot to blow it up.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 10:34 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
I propose that Amtrak change it's "how to ride guide" to include this.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 10:32 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
I can tell you that it happens a lot and it's hard to prove. It is one of the most common complaints that public defenders assigned to cases will hear.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 10:29 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
How does him lingering on the platform long enough for everyone to leave so he can shoot pictures of the trains hinder the safe operation of a passenger railroad? Where is the rule stating how long you have to vacate the platform after de-training?

Legal definition of trespassing: Law. To commit an unlawful injury to the person, property, or rights of another, with actual or implied force or violence, especially to enter onto another's land wrongfully.

How is taking pictures any of that? How do you go from taking pictures to TRESPASSING PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD. I didn't know the train station platform was hot lava and if I stay too long my feet will burn off.

He was not asked to leave. He should not have been asked to leave. Sorry, but I don't feel safer because this guy was arrested for taking pictures. As a train rider, I couldn't care less.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 10:22 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
The way the world is? I'll tell you the way the world is.

Kids are more likely to be molested and/or kidnapped by someone they know, like a close family friend or an actual family member, than a stranger. I would be more worried about Uncle Bob than some guy taking pictures at a playground.

I'm not saying that kids are never snatched by strangers. I'm not saying that strangers haven't gone to playgrounds to take pictures of kids for nefarious purposes. I'm not saying that parents and caregivers alike shouldn't remain vigilant about their surroundings. What I'm saying is that these are the high profile cases the media focuses on, giving a distorted view of the world.

The woman in this scenario was a busy body, who, even after confronted with the facts, still held her retarded suspicions.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 05:54 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Why are you not allowed to lie to the police, but they are allowed to lie to you?
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 02:26 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
I believe that there is generally an adverse reaction to lone males in situations like these (unless you have a suit on or have a nice haircut, you're on official business!).

A nerdy guy with a camera who is taking pictures of trains? Come on, I know all the stereotypes. I'm not hurt by them, but I do feel that the moment you step on the platform you are suspected of some wrongdoing, like you're trying to get shots of little kids or something.

As someone who has gone to Disneyland alone as many times as I've gone with friends and family, there is a bit of apprehension in how people are going to think of you, whether or not your feelings have any basis in reality (however I've been openly criticized for going to Disneyland/riding on trains alone). But you shrug it off and try to enjoy yourself.

I think that some cops will question a lone male more often than they would your typical American family or a female. When security or a cop sees a lone man on a darkened platform taking shots of trains, I think there is an immediate "What a putz" reaction and a tendency to get rid of him instead of letting him enjoy himself in an activity that is hurting no one. I think it has nothing to do with security, but instead creepiness. A few cops are creeped out. They don't get a good vibe from people like me. Therefore, leave you fruity bastard.

I think that the way you look has a lot to do with how you're treated by law enforcement, and if you're a male and you don't look like them in their eyes and they aren't comfortable with the way you look, I think you'll get more trouble on average.

Perhaps us train nerds should dress up for the occasion. To the Men's Warehouse I go. I've got a trip on Amtrak California coming up :)
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 02:15 AM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
I took it to mean that bridge thing you use to actually board the plane.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 01:50 AM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
At the Caltrain 4th & King Station (a terminus station) they have doors that lead onto the platforms that are closed and locked until about 15 or so minutes to departure. Something as simple as a locked door has communicated to the passengers that they don't want them on the platform until it's time to board.

Personally, I think it's dumb, but hey, it's their policy. I hope they don't do anything similar at Los Angeles Union Station. I much prefer to wait for my train on the platform than in the waiting room.

I once walked to the very end of the platform at LAUS to take pictures. If I had done that in New York I probably would have had my head blown off.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 12:31 AM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Do you not see the fundamental difference between the ramp and a train station platform? If I am imagining your scenario correctly, there should be a barrier between the boarding area and the ramp.

A train station platform on the other hand has no such barriers and there is no ramp to board a train or an equivalent of a ramp.

I don't understand how you could get off a train, snap some photos after everybody leaves, and be guilty of trespassing. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not like he jumped onto the tracks or on the roof of a railcar.
How could any reasonable person assume you have to obtain permission to take personal photos after you've disembarked a train at your destination?
Is taking photographs as unwelcome as vandalism and theft? How could photography be an unwelcome activity? Furthermore, could any business that facilitates tourism and sightseeing consider photography an unwelcome activity?

He was not given notice of trespass. He was asked to delete the photos. He refused.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-05-2009, 12:23 AM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Please explain how he was shouted down on an Internet forum where no verbal communication is transmitted. His posts are clearly still there for anyone to read. He was free to express his opinion the same as anyone else.

I believe you perceive the response to Stewart's posts as attacks because you happy to agree with him. I personally see no attacks here and just see a bunch of jerks on the Internet arguing (and that includes me).

I do, however, disagree with any accusations that he's a troll, even if he is. I don't agree with calling people on the Internet trolls for posting unpopular opinions. Even if they are not entirely genuine comments from his point of view, I do believe some people genuinely believe what he's posting.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-04-2009, 06:15 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Oh, I know, since it went against most of what you said previously. But I felt like responding to the hypothetical person who believes that anyway.

I understand that some of these stations can be very busy, so a more appropriate way to deal with things would be something like this hypothetical situation.

Cop: Hey, are you traveling?

Guy: Nah, I'm taking pictures.

Cop: Listen, it's pretty busy right now. We're not trying to be hard asses here but can you come back after rush hour to shoot from the platform?

Guy: Okay, no problem.

Then if the guy gives them flack they can beat the hell out of him or whatever. But shooting photos at these stations should be openly allowed and maybe even embraced (like these contests try to do). We're got a great railroad history in this country and people should be able to appreciate that.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-04-2009, 06:10 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Loitering is remaining in one place with no apparent purpose. If I went to San Diego Station, a national historical landmark mind you, to photograph trains, to see trains, to see the station, to photograph the station, then I have a purpose in being there.

In the end, really, who cares? To me, the spirit of loitering laws are to prevent gangs from establishing an area as their territory and intimidating people who enter that area. If a guy is standing or sitting on a train platform, enjoying himself, smelling the fresh air, and watching trains all damn day, who cares? Let him be at peace. Few people do this anyway, and I doubt it creates traffic problems on the platform.

Loitering laws have a long history of being used for racist goals, anyway, and I think the whole thing is overblown.

Move along, citizen, indeed.
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-03-2009, 09:01 AM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
What's wrong with lingering? I'd like to linger and watch the train depart. I'd like to linger and take photos of trains. I'd like to linger and catch my breath for a few seconds.

What about train stations that are considered national historic places? If I arrive at say, Los Angeles Union Station, with no intention of traveling but to admire the place in the context of a historical building, are they going to kick me out for "lingering"?

This is getting ridiculous. Now we have to scurry along everywhere we go? "Move along, citizen."

I remember an episode of Sliders where there were signs everywhere asking people not to stay in one place too long so it wouldn't make authorities suspicious. Sounds a lot like where this country is headed.

Damn, how long until we slide out of here, Q-Ball?
Forum: Photographic Industry and Professionals 01-02-2009, 09:07 PM  
Another innocent photographer arrested in NYC
Posted By Spokker
Replies: 378
Views: 43,990
Why would photography of trains inside a train station be forbidden anyway? I mean, who cares?

Why don't these companies just put this message on all their web sites and locations, "NO PHOTOGRAPHY ALLOWED EVER"? They obviously don't want photography to be allowed, so why not end the discussion for good and forbid it?
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