Okay ... I'll do this only once ... hope it's worth it and doesn't fall on deaf ears ...
But "what is capacity?!"
I've had this discussion over and over. I've yet to find another, fellow Electrical Engineer (EE) who disagrees with me, especially those with more experience in power systems (most often they entirely agree with me), whereas I have more exposure to microelectronics and semiconductor (and why variance in potential can kill microelectronics far quicker than the "extra pep" in the lens motors).
- "Charge" is just the alleged "Current-time" based on a load
- Many vendors quote "Charge" at a very minimal, not nominal, load -- like 100mA (whereas 1A+ is nominal)
- "Current" (real-time) is a function of not charge, but the remaining potential in the source for the load it was designed for
- As potential drops to meet "current" (real-time), you will lose functionality at a specific voltage cut-off, and will drop absolutely if the load is in excess of the design
- Pentax branded and certified batteries are designed for a specific potential-current over a specific current-time
- Generic batteries are not designed or certified for such, even when they come out of the same fab
- There is no "generic standard" for Li-Ion for all batteries -- e.g., no one supports/certifies "generic" Rechargeable CR-V3 batteries for a reason
This is the area of Lithium Ion (Li-Ion). Li-Ion is completely different than Nickel batteries, such as NiCD and NiMH. Li-Ion has regulated cells, regulation that is active enough to drain the battery. NiCD and NiMH just "leak" potential, but do not require the same cell-level regulation.
Not exactly.
What it means is two things:
1) Without a nominal load drawing current, the INOV8 was designed for a different potential
2) With a nominal K7/K5 load drawing current, the INOV8 is completely inadequate for the design
Potential is the issue. One can have a "smaller battery" and still be adequate. The overall "charge" (current-time) people speak of is not exactly.
What is exacting is how the real-time, actual potential-current output of the battery lasts over its total potential. The problem with so many "generic" batteries is that they are not designed for the end unit. There is a specific, real-time potential-current requirement over the potential of the battery, and when you don't design for such an end-unit, you get reduced longevity. This is still even the cause though the "charge" might actually be the same, using a minimal load, but not for the nominal charge of the unit.
I cannot stress enough there is a reason why no end-unit device supports "generic" Rechargeable CR-V3 batteries. Everyone designs and certifies a specific design. This is not Nickel battery technology at all. It's not non-rechargeable Lithium technology either (e.g., 3V LiMg in CR-V3 or 1.5V LiFe in Energizer Lithium). Lithium is an interesting beat, and Lithium Ion requires extensive microelectronics regulation and other details.
The camera needs a specific real-time voltage-current (power). Voltage drops as a result of inadequate current, so current remains the same for the reduced, overall power.
It's bad enough if the battery does not even put out the potential required with no load. But with load, nominal load typical in a dSLR (1A+) and not just a common, minimal load that many use to rate "charge" (typically 100mA), the battery can still have a "lot of charge left," but be utterly useless because it can't provide enough current and, therefore, voltage that the load needs and constantly hit the devices cut-off voltage (so there is not a brown out).
I regularly used to take my alleged "dead" NiMH batteries out of my K100D and put them in reduced load (100-250mA) electronics and they'd work for another 4-10 hours. They literally had 1Ah (1000mAh) "left" in them. They just couldn't produce the required, real-time potential-current required for the K100D any more.
Yes, to recharge various capacitance that are utilized in motors and other electronics, as well as select microelectronics. The CCD and shutter are of interest, beyond just the motors, although the motors are usually designed around the nominal input of the microelectronics, which are far more exacting.
I used to have this discussion with people who used "generic" Rechargeable CR-V3 batteries in their *ist-D, K100D, K200D, etc... where they'd basically talk about how much "pep" they had in their motors, and I'd try to get them to understand they are taunting their voltage regulators. Most everyone either reports infrequent to common "lock ups" (that "only" require a power toggle -- ummm, there's a reason for that, it's typically the voltage regulator doing its job) to sometimes lost shots or other issues to, and most commonly, far less shots than expected -- usually because the Li-Ion potential has been reduced by another load, and with it, overall, real-time current at the reduced, overall potential. I.e., not worth it in my book.
Under the nominal load of the actual end-device, correct.
Which doesn't mean the INOV8 doesn't actually have its "claimed" overall "charge," it may very well be that it does.
It just means that under the actual, "nominal load" of the K7/K5, the INOV8 is unable to deliver the real-time potential-current over the life of the overall charge of the battery. It wasn't designed for the load, let alone it seems not the non-load potential in the first place.
Doesn't mean "fakes." It just means they were not designed to go in a K7/K5. With a different, real-time potential-current load, they may last longer.
It's the same reason why you see NiMH AA batteries with higher "charge" than LiFe AA batteries. Beyond the fact that the former are nominally 1.2V and the latter 1.5V, it's the fact that LiFe is able to deliver (according to Energizer) up to 2.6A nominal (let alone at 1.5V) than NiMH, which varies greatly. Some NiMH batteries can't even do 0.5A, while others easily do 1A+ as long as the battery has at least half its potential left (and then drops under). That's why for high current microelectronics, let alone those with motors, LiFe is preferred over NiMH.
At the same time, for a battery grip, if I put twelve (12) 1.2V NiMH batteries in two (2) series of six (6), I can get not only 7.2V nominal, but the two (2), parallel series circuits add together and I can get easily 2A+ for at least half their charge (series compounds potential, parallel compounds current).
Furthermore, if potential is the sole reason why batteries last "longer," then how come 1.2V NiMH AA batteries last longer than 1.5V Alkalines? Again, real-time current, as Alkalines often have trouble with more than 0.1A (let alone 0.5A), while NiMH is designed for 0.5A+.
Good. I'll let you do an experiment where you reverse polarity with Nickel and Lithium-based compounds. You'll do the nickel first for a reason, because you will go to the hospital after you do the Lithium compound.
Nickel melts in the worst case, and is quite tolerant of various transients. Lithium cells COMBUST under polarity reversal, including varies transients that can and do occur. There is a reason why most Li-Ion designs have at least three (3) terminals, if not four (4). There are many transients and other issues with Lithium, especially changing from charge to discharge. That's one reason right there why the non-standard, "generic" Rechargable CR-V3s are not used, because CR-V3 only defines discharge (not charge), and there are non-standard designs for charging.
Lithium requires additional, cell-level regulation, in addition to the overall battery pack. Lithium Ion cells have active microelectronics that drain the battery when it's in non-use, unlike non-rechargeable Lithium compounds (again, LiMg for CR-V3, LiFe for Energizer Lithium) which "hold their charge" for decades. Lithium actually holds charges for decades, but the rechargeable Ion designs do not because of those active, regulatory circuits. Eventually individual cells fail over time, enough to a point the overall real-time current is inadequate. That's why Li-Ion batteries are only good for about 1-2 years of continual use and charging (500+).
Again, Nickel and Lithium are completely different, one should never compare them.
Lithium is a high capacitance, but very fickle compound. Designs require a different potential for charging than discharging, and it has a very narrow potential band for both. This is partially due to the microelectronics that regulate its cells, as microelectronics often have a narrow band as well. Going too high over-volts circuits and, in the worst case, just makes a cell unusable. Going to far can cause the Lithium cell to combust, although the microelectronics is specifically designed to render it unusable instead. Going to low, the cell is destroyed -- either by the cut-off of the microelectronics or the common case of sub-3V being deadly to the Lithium compound itself.
SIDE NOTE: This is also why the "reduced voltage, generic" Rechargeable CR-V3 is almost self-defeating. CR-V3 is 3V nominal under load, but Li-Ion is nominally 3.7V. Trying to reduce it down to 3.3V or under brings it close to its "death voltage," so the microelectronics cut-off much sooner. It's also why the batteries tend to die quicker too, because the cut-off is not only so low, but when you store a Li-Ion cell at or below its 3V base, it tends to destroy the cells after a few months. Remember, the regulatory microelectronics are still draining it too, during storage. ;)
The four most common reason for combustion at refilling stations are:
1. Mechanical (overwhelmingly, typically 1 sigma or at least 2/3rds to 80%, failures of the pumps, agitation, spark, etc..)
2. Exposed flames (i.e., mainly smokers, not as high as you would expect, but still significant)
3. Electro-static (almost as much as smokers, people not grounding themselves, opening doors while filling, etc...)
4. Electro-magnetic (very low, but still as much as 1%)
Yes, it's rare that a 700MHz - 2.1GHz signal would cause any type of EMF and resulting EMI. However, it's still possible. It's more of an issue at a refueling station than on an airplane, because you do have vapors that are openly exposed to an endless supply of oxygen (unlike a self-sealing fuel tank, which is not even close to the passenger). But the risk is very low.
The higher risk of cell phone usage is the same as anywhere else, people not paying attention and preventing others from communicating -- re-enter "mechanical" above, along with "electro-static" and other things. That's why on an airplane (at least here in the US) you're not allowed to use portable electronics below 10,000 feet. Why? Because that's the most common time a flight attendant will need to get your attention, for emergency or other situations. In-flight entertainment systems are allowed because their audio-video can be interrupted by flight personnel (let alone they immediately have your attention when they do ;) ).
Of course you can! You can do all sorts of things too!
But is the "generic" resulted designed specifically for the real-time potential-current load of the K7/K5?! No. What will result?
As explained above. Reduced envelope where the load will get what it expects before voltage cut-off, a far greater frequency of variances from design, etc...
Again, that's not the whole story. It's not just about "didn't pass QA," many do.
It's about using a battery pack that was not designed for the envelope of the end-design. If it was just about an output voltage, then I can and should go off and make a set of cheap "adapters" that give 3.6-3.7V, 7.2-7.4V, 10.8-11.1V and 14.4-14.8V outputs with "generic," Rechargeable CR-V3 batteries.
And let me explain his statements further ... ;)
In fact, completely draining Li-Ion can be a bad thing!
NiCD is notorious for "memory." NiMH is far better, but doesn't typically have the real-time current output of NiCD (2.5A+). NiCD is far better with depletion, as the potential is more consistent. I.e., when you recharge Nickel technologies, the potential (voltage) is actually how it detects if it is full or not. The "memory" issues arise when NiMH or, far more commonly, NiCD actually go to a "trickle" in potential, and the charger believes it is full, when it is actually not. Hence why one wants to drain NiMH and, almost always, NiCD almost completely, before charging.
Lithium Ion rechargeable designs, especially polymer (which is more staple, at a cost of longevity, although that is improvement), prefer to have a mid-charge when stored. The greater the capacitance in Li-Ion, the faster it degrades. At the same time, you don't want to deplete a Li-Ion and then store it, as the active, regulatory microelectronics still needs power. You don't want the cells dropping much below 3V potential
Care'n feeding of Li-Ion include the following:
- Keep your Li-Ion "topped off" when you use it or plan to use it -- do not store your Li-Ion batteries full charged for any mid-to-long-term duration, use them (say every week or two)
A week before a trip is a great idea. Feel free to top them off while on the trip as well. Unlike Nickel, there are no issues with Lithium being recharged from any, prior level of potential.
- When you plan on storing your Li-Ion, use them for about 60-80% of their charge -- i.e., just before, if you can estimate (e.g., number of shots), or just as it begins to drop in your device's indicator (nearing cut-off voltage of device, but still well above 3V)
It's safe to shoot and then leave your batteries uncharged for a month or two, as long as you yank them before they are fully depleted. On my K5, I yank them just before (estimate) or just as they hit the 2/3rds indicator, which means potential has dropped below best, nominal output (but still well above cut-off).
- Don't leave your Li-Ion battery in your device while it's plugged in as the norm -- i.e., having a Li-Ion battery that is constantly fully charged, whether it's in use or not, will reduce its life (yes, this is the same in the case of notebook computers)
If you're Li-Ion is constantly at max potential, it will degrade the fastest, regardless of whether it is used or not. That's why you don't want to just leave your power plugged into your camera with a battery any more than a notebook. I often yank my notebook's Li-Ion battery when at home, especially after a trip where it is half-depleted, and only put it back in before I travel.
Of course, in all cases, "planning" is not an exact science. When in doubt, weight the cost of a few months or a year reduced battery longevity to the fact of not having enough battery life. ;)
By "power" you mean overall charge. "Power" is directly aking to real-time potential-current, and not "current-time" of the overall charge (and power-time when you factor in potential).
At the same time, you can still have a battery that is designed and can deliver a specific, real-time potential-charge over its life at a smaller, overall "charge rating" than a battery that wasn't designed for it.
That's what most people don't realize. They can't understand how a "smaller" battery from the OEM seemingly works "better" and lasts "longer" than a "larger" or "external" battery that has far more cells and "higher" rated "charge."
Again, real-time potential-current (real-time "power") has nothing to do with the overall, current-time (as corresponding power-time) that a battery is allegedly "rated" for. The "rating" can and is often done under a minimal load (like 100mA) instead of an actual, end-device load. The actual, end-device load varies -- except when designed for a specific unit.
Again, regarding "charge," why do Energizer Lithium batteries last longer, or work at all, compared to NiMH batteries, even when the latter does work? Current! (Energizer rates its Lithiums at 2.6A real-time current) And it's not just "potential," because even 1.5V Alkalines do not last, if they work at all, compared to 1.2V NiMH batteries for most devices, including smaller, compact cameras.
Li-Ion, under continual use, will only last 1-2 years. Under infrequent use, even without proper care'n feeding, Li-Ion can last 3-5 years. For photographers, this should be typical, possibly 5+ years with proper care'n feeding.
Remember, rechargeable 3.7V Li-Ion cells != 3V LiMg (CR-V3) or 1.5V LiFe (Energizer Lithium). The latter will last for decades on the shelf, and will provide the same current until they are nearly depleted, and their longevity doesn't vary based on how often or little you use them. Li-Ion is completely different and it does matter how you charge and use them.
Like a typical notebook battery as well.
I hope my taking the time to make all my comments above will be seen as the same.
