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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-13-2011, 03:29 AM
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Just to add to the chorus - no shutterblur problems either and with the firmware update, the battery indication thing has completely gone as well.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-05-2011, 05:50 AM
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I bought the K-x a couple of weeks ago and have no regrets. I don't think you could do better from an image quality to price perspective. Like you, I bought on a hobby-basis but had an incentive to buy Pentax in that I had two good old lenses from a family member which I could use on a Pentax (and which saved me several hundred £'s if I'd had to buy them new).
I had considered the K-r and actually bought one and returned it for a replacement because of the front focus issue, but ultimately returned the replacement as well. The K-x has no such issue.
From an image quality perspective, the K-x matches the K-r, so the principal differences are: (1) slightly smaller, lower resolution screen; (2) no focusing confirmation points; (3) AA batteries only; (4) 4.7 frames per second v 6 fps; (5) no AF fine adjustment.
(1) I got used to the screen pretty quickly and the screen is absolutely fine for in-camera checking.
(2) Focus confirmation was a lot less important to me in practice than I thought it might be (I centre-focus and recompose). I've actually really grown to like the clean viewfinder and I trust the AF (unlike on the K-r).
(3) The batteries seem to last forever and I got some rechargeables as part of the package, so not an issue.
(4) Not an issue for me - I rarely use this and I'm not sure I'd notice a 1.3 fps difference in practice.
(5) So far, none of my three lenses have need AF adjustment.
There are other technical differences, but none which matter to me on a day-to-day basis. The only other difference which I noticed at first but which I'm now used to is the ergonomics. The K-r fit my hands slightly better, but the K-x feels fine now too.
Regarding other brands, I can't say too much as I haven't used any others, but pass on a few things which I found in my research:
- the nearest current DSLR price-wise is the Nikon D3100. I think it is generally accepted that the K-x has far better image quality at higher ISO (that's my impression from the Imaging Resource tool anyway). If you're planning on buying any lenses, you may find the D3100 (and D5000) limiting in that it doesn't autofocus all of Nikon's lenses and also doesn't have in-camera stablisation (which means lenses without stabilisation built in will have a greater tendency to blur).
- Canon's current entry models seem to be more expensive, but perhaps a slightly older model might compete on price. I didn't research Canon very much, so I can't really comment.
This is my experience. Hope it's helpful.
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Forum: Welcomes and Introductions
03-15-2011, 03:14 AM
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I'm happy to say that after a false start or two, I'm can now participate in this forum as a Pentax owner. A little more than a month ago, I tried two different K-r's, each of which had severe FF. Unfortunately, I intend to use the camera for, amongst other things, indoor shots of my children, so this felt like a significant issue to me (particularly since many of the shots which I did take of them during the time I had the first K-r were slightly FF, even outdoors under cloudy London skies).
I waited for the firmware update for a month but ultimately came to the conclusion that I would be quite happy with a K-x (after having spent WAY too much time lurking on the K-r and K-5 forums, trying a K-x in store and knowing that the IQ is on par with the K-r). I know a firmware update for the K-r is coming, but given that the Japanese have far more important things to work on and that I just needed to put an end to the obsessive waiting, I opted for a model where I know and can live with the limitations. I might not have a few things which I really liked about the K-r (principally the better screen and the tiny-bit bigger ergonomics which fit my hand just slightly better) but I saved £100 which I can put toward another lens.
So I pulled the trigger on the K-x last night. This was in part prompted by the fact that I received a couple of Pentax F- lenses from a family member this weekend (an F 50mm 1.7 and an F 70-200, both purchased in the late-80s or early 90s). I just want to be able to get out there with them! It was a great sensation to put those lenses on the camera last night and hear the autofocus whirr to life after 10+ years of them sitting in the bottom of a closet unused. And I'm happy to say that the 50mm took some razor sharp shots under the same tungsten conditions that the K-r had trouble with.
The cost-savings which these lenses represent, together with the fact that I'm always drawn to things which are underappreciated but of higher quality (my camera for the last few years has been the Ricoh GX100) meant I never seriously considered one of the bigger brands.
The other, more personal reason I was drawn to Pentax is that my first camera was a P&S Pentax given to me by my grandparents in the late 80s/very-early 90s. Both of them were proper photography enthusiasts and they picked out a fantastic little camera for me. I can't remember the model, but it was a pocketable little thing which took great shots and which I carried with me on various trips. It disappeared when I was at university (the friends who lost it bought me a crap Minolta in replacement, which wasn't half as good but twice as big). Anyway, I don't have any deep sense of brand loyalty, but it is nice to have a camera which reminds me of my grandparents and their passion for photography.
Anyway, that's enough about me and my ridiculously over-thought process of buying a camera. I look forward to lots of photography now and to learning from the various people on these boards!:)
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Forum: Pentax K-r
03-09-2011, 07:04 AM
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As hopeful as I am about this rumoured update, I'm not convinced it will happen. I emailed Pentax today here in the UK and got the following reply (in German strangely, although translated by Google below):
"There is currently no firmware update is available that fixes the front focus problem. A release date has not been submitted to us, but this is published on our website as soon as it becomes available."
The reference to a release date seems to imply that there is a firmware update in the works, but certainly nothing has been confirmed.
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Forum: Pentax K-r
03-09-2011, 06:54 AM
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Thanks all - I think Verglace described perfectly how my lens handled. Seemed to work fine to me, so glad it's not one more thing to obsess over ;)
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Forum: Pentax K-r
03-09-2011, 04:48 AM
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Can someone kindly confirm whether the manual focus on the 18-55 kit lens is completely frictionless or whether there is any sense of friction/grinding when in MF mode (ie. a much, much, much less resistant version of what you would get if you forced it in AF mode)? Sorry if this description is a bit poor - not quite sure how else to describe it.
The reason I ask is that the MF on the lens on the second K-r I had wasn't completely smooth (ie. there was a very light sense of friction, like something catching at very small, regular internals like a gear). I can't remember whether the first K-r and its kit lens exhibited the same tendency. (Both were returned for FF reasons while I deliberated on my next move).
In the hopes that the new firmware comes out this week (at which point I'll be sprinting back to my local retailer), I just want to know what the MF should feel like.
Many thanks.
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Forum: Pentax K-r
03-08-2011, 07:07 AM
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I think the reason ursamajor posts to the FF threads is to keep the issue at the forefront of this forum. I have absolutely no problem with this as it keeps the pressure on Pentax to find a solution and, hopefully, communicate better with the market. I would be very concerned if I worked for Pentax as, without a fix, both of their new models will sell poorly (especially the K-5 given the sensor stain issue and the fact that it is marketed at a very knowledgeable market segment) and the brand will suffer damage which I think will take at least one if not two product cycles to undo. If the K-r and K-5 can be made to work properly, however, this can still be Pentax's chance to build on the success of the K-x and really start to compete with Canon/Nikon on the basis of cost to quality
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Forum: Pentax K-r
03-08-2011, 06:58 AM
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What I meant was that under EU law, you should have more than 30 days if the goods (in this case the K-r) do not meet the required standard (I believe it is up to 2 years guarantee. During the first 6 months, the seller has to show that the problem was caused by the customer, and then after 6 months, the customer has to show that he did not cause the problem). It's an EU directive, so will have been implemented differently in different jurisdictions. I'm also not sure if it can get you a refund or just a replacement. See here.
But the email which you received from Pentax support is very encouraging (although I'm not sure it's correct that it only happens when there is little contrast - in all my tests using 2 K-r's, I used high contrast objects to focus on).
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Forum: Pentax K-r
03-07-2011, 10:38 PM
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I would test that 30 day return period. If there is a manufacturing defect at the time you purchased the item (which I would argue there is given how severe the FF is, and I say that having owned 2 K-r's myself), you may be able to force the retailer (Amazon.fr) to take the camera back. The EU has fairly generous consumer laws in this regard (although I can't remember them off the top of my head). Good luck.
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Forum: Pentax K-r
03-03-2011, 02:15 PM
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@ Designosophy - the additional sensitivity is exactly what I'm after, so the K-r fits the bill like no other in the price range.
@dcmsox2004 - I find it incredible that Pentax/Hoya have seemingly done absolutely no damage control on this issue in the North American and European markets (don't follow the Asian boards, so I have no idea). I mean, it affects both of their current models and at least for the K-5, I would imagine the buyers are largely sophisticated enough to read up on the camera before parting with hard-earned cash. So this has got to be fairly serious for them in terms of lost revenue. Any company without an on-line strategy or willingness to engage with its customers in social media (ie. this forum and others) is not playing the game well anymore.
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Forum: Pentax K-r
03-01-2011, 09:32 AM
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I understand that Pentax will be exhibiting at the Focus on Imaging show in Birmingham, UK. If anyone from this board attends, could you press the Pentax reps for more information on any forthcoming firmware update? It would be useful to have a better sense of timing.
In my own case, I'm trying to decide whether to hold out for the K-r fix or get the K-x. I'd be gutted if I went for the K-x only to find the fix for the K-r released shortly thereafter! (although I appreciate that's always going to be a risk). I have a couple of good old F-series lenses which I'd rather be able to use again, so not seriously contemplating another brand just yet...
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Forum: Pentax News and Rumors
02-23-2011, 03:55 AM
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Wow. Thank you for this hard work. I'm not scientifically minded in the least, so don't understand a lot (ok, almost all) of your essay, but I really appreciate the lengths you've gone to explain the issue to Pentax and I really hope this contributes to a solution (in my case, for the K-r).
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-23-2011, 03:43 AM
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Same as above. All of the tests I did were in relatively bright Tungsten. Much lower daylight and non-tungsten were either fine or the FF was barely appreciable. LiveView focusing in Tungsten was completely accurate. I returned my first K-r on the advice from Pentax that the problem only affects individual units. Second K-r had the same exact issue. I've returned it and am now waiting to re-purchase it until either a firmware fix is released or there is evidence that servicing the camera can resolve the issue.
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-19-2011, 12:40 PM
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Thanks for your kind words. Not sure what discolouration or raw adjustments have to do with FF though. As for manual focus, the combination of my eyesight, that viewfinder and being indoors mean this isn't terribly reliable either.
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-19-2011, 02:22 AM
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I replaced my first K-r as Pentax's tech line in the UK are saying it only affects individual units, so I thought I'd try a second one. Second one also had the same problem. Given my intended use and the fact that I live in a dark-ish house, the FF is more of an issue for me than some. So I returned the second one and got a refund. My plan is now to wait for a month and see if a fix emerges. If one does, I'll be first in line for the K-r. If not, then I'll reassess. I may opt to buy the K-r again knowing about the limitation or I may buy something else. I don't know yet. I am not a fanboy (although the first camera my grandparents gave me as a kid was a Pentax), so I'm not tied to the brand (although I do have access to some old lenses which would save some cost in terms of building up a collection). As far as I can tell though, no other camera in the market at this price point matches the K-r for the other things that are important to me (the K-x, D3100 and 550D all have other shortcomings which may or may not be more significant to me than the FF). So I'm waiting and seeing (effectively resetting the clock to a month ago before I bought the K-r).
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-17-2011, 09:56 AM
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Respectfully, not sure I agree with this. As far as I can tell, under the "test" conditions - 2sec delay, fast-ish shutter speed, and with the camera stabilised on a table - the other causes that could have made this out of focus were sufficiently eliminated. The text should be clearer and would be if this had been taken under the same set-up in daylight.
I would also suggest taking the same exact shot with LV. If you've got the FF problem, it will be self-evident as the LV shot will be in focus. I would also suggest taking a few shots with an object about 3-4cm in front of the target AF object. It'll be nice and crisp if you've got FF.
I really hope Pentax sort this out. It's such a great camera otherwise. Nothing would make me happier than to go and buy back the camera I regretfully returned the other day.
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-16-2011, 03:34 AM
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@mrjamesabels -
Very interested to know whether they were able to fix the problem. Would you mind updating this thread once you've got your K-r back?
For the time being, I returned my second K-r to the retailer and am going to wait for a few weeks to see whether a fix - firmware or hardware - emerges, before deciding whether or not to move onto a different model (K-x?) or, although I'd rather not, a different brand (D3100, 550D?)
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-11-2011, 10:28 AM
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@mp29k -
I guess my frustration comes from wanting to love this camera for all of the amazing things about it, but knowing that this flaw is pretty significant in the context of how I intend to use it (ie. frequently indoors and in low light - I live in the UK afterall!). I chose the K-r in large part for the high ISO capabilities, but that seems pointless if you're shooting outdoors anyway. I also don't really want to wait for a solution (and, given that Pentax in this country aren't even acknowledging a problem, my faith is not especially strong that one is imminent). Maybe I'd be better off with something else but that pains me as, bar this problem, the K-r is the camera for me. Sorry for the moaning - just a function of how disappointed I am, which in itself arises from how excited I was for this particular piece of kit!
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-11-2011, 05:57 AM
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@allfastar -
I don't read those assurances as being "indirect confirmation" at all given that Michael C also said "there has been no information sent to us about any known issue issue with the camera" and "there is no known issue with the K-r".
I spoke to a Pentax technical hotline yesterday here in the UK and the person I spoke to also claimed not to be aware of the issue (despite the fact that this was my second K-r unit with the problem).
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-10-2011, 07:18 AM
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Just spoke to the UK Pentax tech rep about my 2nd K-r with FF and again, he was unhelpful, unsympathetic and unable to acknowledge that there is an FF issue with the K-r model in general. He said it was just bad luck that I've had two units with the same exact issue and said I was the only person who has so far complained in the UK. He knew nothing about any firmware update and basically just tried to fob me off on the repair centre (who were much friendlier). At this point, not only am I really disappointed with Pentax's QC, but I'm also rather unimpressed with their approach to customer service.
I'm going to stick it out to see whether this firmware update mentioned by ursamajor materialises in the next week, but otherwise, I'll either see if the repair centre can fix it or I may very well return the camera for good and repurchase it once the issue is resolved (or move on to something else if it isn't, although I don't want to do that as nothing else in the same price range ticks all the boxes in the same way as the K-r).
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-09-2011, 03:06 PM
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Quick follow-up: my retailer kindly gave me a full exchange for another K-r today. Contrary to the Pentax Tech rep's assertions, I'm sorry to say that the FF issue is as bad on the one (which is a 385xxxx) as the previous one. I'll be calling him again tomorrow and setting the record straight that this isn't just an issue with just a few individual units...
Must keep the pressure on to get them to sort this out - I don't have the mental bandwidth to think about getting a different camera and, unfortunately, I've decided at this price level, this problem isn't acceptable given my intended use.
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-09-2011, 04:02 AM
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My feelings exactly. I really want to love this camera because there is so much that is great about it. But I know I will use it under tungsten (for similar reasons - children at home) and none of the work-around's are good enough given the investment I've made (I appreciate the K-r is cheaper than a lot of other cameras, but £500 is still a lot of money at the moment).
I am generally forgiving of technical limitations (I have been using a Ricoh GX100 for the last 2.5 years, which produces some very sharp images, but is often quite frustrating in other respects), but the FF really bothers me given that it is below a standard which it is very reasonable to expect this camera to meet.
I have taken on trust what the Pentax tech rep told me on Monday, which is that this is an issue which only affects individual units (notwithstanding the fact that much of what I've read points to the contrary) and have asked my retailer for an exchange, which they were happy to do on the basis that the camera was bought 10 days ago.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do if the replacement has the same problem - I know it's under warranty and I can get it serviced, but I haven't seen much chatter about whether this will in fact resolve the issue. I could probably get a refund, but then I really wouldn't know what other camera to get (I won't bore you with a personal pro/con's of other Pentax and non-Pentax models in this thread).
Suffice to say, given the amount of time I spent researching the K-r in October/November, I'm slightly disappointed with myself for having missed all of the FF complaints in December/January (although in my starry-eyed state, I probably would have still bought it on the assumption that people were being overly picky). But more so, I'm disappointed that the fault has marred the start of what I had hoped would be - and still very much hope will be - a long relationship with this camera!
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-07-2011, 08:28 AM
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Just spoke to the Pentax technical hotline here in the UK about my K-r and the FF under tungsten issue.
The guy I spoke to was quite abrupt. He said I should contact the repair centre for recalibration. I asked him if this was a problem that affected individual units or the model as a whole. He said it only affected individual units and that I'd been unlucky. I explained to him that the problem seems pretty widespread based on other users' reported experience, but he was very dimissive about what people write on the internet! There definitely seemed to be a bit of denial there (although maybe that's just me, having spent too much time reading up on this issue and now under the impression that it is completely widespread...)
Anyway, hopefully the other messages people have had from Pentax regarding a firmware update are a more reliable indication as to whether the company recognises a problem.
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-06-2011, 02:45 PM
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@ Hypocorism - thanks for the well-balanced advice.
After a weekend of various "tests" under all sorts of light conditions, I'm relieved to say that the FF issues have really only been under Tungsten. I've shot a variety of things under energy-saving lightbulbs in darker conditions than under tungsten, as well as in poor daylight and got accurate, sharp results almost all of the time (where not, it's almost always clearly motion blur rather than lack of focus due to slow shutter speed). In terms of tungsten, the work around's for now are Live View (which can give razor sharp results) and manual focus, which should be fine for most of my purposes.
So all in all, still quite pleased with the camera (I just love the ergonomics, overall responsiveness and results out of the box).
I will drop Pentax a line this week though simply to make known the issue (I know they're aware of it, but I always think it's good for them to know how widespread the problem is and to keep the pressure on!)
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Forum: Pentax K-r
02-04-2011, 06:59 AM
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Thanks both.
Am I correct in thinking this problem doesn't afflict the K-x? If that's correct, is there any hardware specific to the K-r (not shared by the K-x) which might mean a firmware update won't resolve the issue? (Answering this probably involves some speculation as to what is causing the issue! And apologies, I'm not intimately familiar with the underlying differences between the K-x and K-r)
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