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Forum: General Talk 03-18-2011, 01:17 AM  
What Bible do you have or have read?
Posted By ramblinman
Replies: 613
Views: 61,250
Read that all several times and still not sure I'm getting it all clearly, but that's all right. I suspect the writer is more of a scholar (or philosopher) than I am.

Will make a couple of what I hope are something like responses, though:

1. I think the R.C. Church, perhaps not unlike other religious leadership earlier, did have a history of "wielding authority" and in a way kind of keeping the scriptures under wraps so that only the "experts" who allegedly could understand them would be able to "teach" them to the people: Hebrew vs. the more common Aramaic; Latin vs. whatever other languages worldwide; or else Syrian (in the Orthodox case) vs. a traditional language in South India, etc, etc. To me that's a little suspect and of course greatly increases the likelihood of misuse. In the days of Huss / Wycliffe, it was pretty much a crime to translate this book into any language that common people could understand - and thus they were burned at the stake. That made it a little difficult for people to take it "as it is" and let it speak to them whatever it might, as you suggest. Fortunately, things are different in the RC church these days.

2. Starting with the "world", as you also suggest, is a great idea. The biblical book of Romans, chapter one, makes reference to that, saying that what has been created is an expression of the one who's created it, and that we can learn many things about him by observing / studying it, even re: his "eternal power and godhead". This is known as "natural revelation" in theological terms, and plays a very important role in the discovery of truth.

3. I don't see the "literal / non-literal" view of the book in question as an issue being all that important if we're talking about the difference between Judaism / Christianity and Paganism (though I confess considerable ignorance re: the latter, though I think I live among a brand of them up here in the Himalayan villages where I do the bulk of my photography these days): a) There is a great deal in the bible that can only be literal and which in some cases has been unequivocally proven to be; b) there is a great deal that is very clearly not and is at times identified as such by the text itself (i.e., Jesus, "destroy this temple and I will rebuild it in three days" - referring to his body - or "I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done with him whatever they wished - referring to John the Baptist); and c) then there are those things which not all agree upon - though in many of those cases, I'm not sure it really matters all that much, because the spiritual lessons / realities in view still would seem to stand and point us generally in the same direction whether literal or not; a direction quite different from the pagan one, I think.

4. In terms of being corrupted, from what I hear the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls did a lot toward demonstrating how carefully and accurately the text had been transmitted. It was not quite like copying out some chickenscratch in your notebook from Cliff's notes or something... I've heard that if the Jewish scribes so much as sneezed or glanced away from the page for a second, they had to tear the page they were working on and start over... so I don't think God has been "edited" - if He had been, I don't think you'd see book after book, chapter after chapter recounting stories describing how hopelessly messed up his people and their leaders were, when it was those very people who were doing the copying, incidentally.

5. Not sure why it "doesn't make any sense for prophetic authority". Example??? Also don't see where it's "as wrong on any given position as possible" - and the "unresolved contradictions", in my experience, tend to very often resolve themselves when we're willing to look a little closer. So I think this is where the completely differing perspectives, leading to totally different conclusions, show themselves. I do not deny that faith - on either side - is the key.

6. I am totally agreed when it comes to talking in circles, and don't feel I ever get anywhere with it. As long as the presuppositions differ and none of those presuppositions are challenged / thought challengable by either side, it's kind of inevitable.

7. Anyone who would tell another, "never forget what [the Bible] is and what it ain't", is not only personally pretty well decided on the matter, but is telling another to draw that conclusion as apparently the only reasonable one, too - which is contradictory in light of what that same person earlier condemned re: "imposing...that standard on others". Right? If it is "imposing" when Christians do it, what is it when pagans do the same???
Forum: General Talk 03-16-2011, 12:47 AM  
What Bible do you have or have read?
Posted By ramblinman
Replies: 613
Views: 61,250
A lot of time can be spent trying to more or less soften or even discredit a piece of literature / history / spiritual treatise, and it's worth asking why it's even that important to people. If the book in question is largely contradictory and incoherent, why are we even talking about it? I mean, nobody really spends much time trying to discredit your average inebriated crackpot on the street, do they? I hear drunken babble all the time from my neighbors - doesn't do much good to try to form any opinions about what they're saying.... and I don't see forum threads addressing such. The difference here is that the Bible is held as less than unique, largely flawed, contradictory or irrelevant to some, while it is held as being coherent, comprehensible, inspired, and true by others. The ramifications of either belief can be considerable practically speaking, so there's a sort of inevitable conflict of ideas.

Personally, I think that at least some people in the first group undertake efforts to uphold their point of view simply because if they were to consider the possibility that the Bible's message (which, while it indeed shares a great deal with other religious literature, is completely unique in a few rather important particulars) actually were true, it would sort of put demands on people which are frankly unpalatable to all humans in their normal state of being: i.e., they'd actually have to submit to some other entity completely, and admit their powerlessness for self-salvation and any facades of self-righteousness, and acknowledge a serious need for a kind of help that no human can provide. These are things that your average "decent human being" cannot naturally palate.

It's hard - or impossible - to be unbiased about these things, and I don't make any exception for myself. Within the Bible itself, you can find predictions of these inevitable and opposite reactions to its message, too, which it recognizes as being, "the fragrance of life" or else "the stench of death". It all depends to a large degree upon where one is coming from, what they believe about life and themselves and God to begin with. To suggest that none of us has any presuppositions influencing the way we perceive something - whether the first time or the tenth, whether a culture, a cuisine, or a work of literature - is kind of unrealistic. We might feel we have good reasons for having arrived at those presuppositions - life experience, observation, etc - but can we be sure that these subjective categories to prove more reliable towards arriving at truth and reality than this particular ancient book?

It creates a bit of an inner battle, but the fact is that approaching any religious / philosophic / historical work - or even a good novel, for that matter - with an open mind and with the willingness to look a little deeper when things don't immediately make sense or when they seem to contradict is a very good idea. In my view, if we aren't willing to spend some time, diligent also towards escaping whatever prejudices we may subconsciously possess, it is almost guaranteed that we'll end up just believing what we want to, and probably not what is actually true.

Seeking some divine help might make all the difference, as well. For true athiests this will not be possible, obviously, since a "faith commitment" - namely, that there is no God (since His existence can be neither proven nor disproven) - precludes the possibility of asking for divine light. Agnostics of a certain stripe can still seek that help - for God might exist after all - unless their own faith commitment has already decided that if He exists, He is unknowable / uninvolved in the lives of people. For the rest of us, a sincere desire to know the truth, however inconvenient or repulsive it may be - is important and worth asking for, though most would probably shy away from it. I think of the two pills in the beginning of The Matrix.

The questions of whether religion promotes strife / war is kind of a side issue. Important, yes, but not really central to the question. That is to say, the message of a book like the Bible could be completely true and accurate, and still be quite easily used in bits and pieces - especially if proclaimed to those only slightly acquainted with its teaching - to justify all sorts of atrocious acts. In that sense I agree that "it's no different from any other book". Any writing, or idea, or cultural distinctive, or whatever can be and will be manipulated by greedy, brutal people towards greedy, brutal purposes, given any chance. That is not the fault of the book's author (or Author), but of those who desperately want it to say what is convenient for the achievement of their own purposes - which brings us back to the main problem I'm trying to highlight... If we treat it a bit summarily / carelessly, or else come to it with any desire to merely discover support for our own pre-existing convictions / ways of thinking, then we are really doing nothing different than they have. But hopefully nobody who's posted here can be rightly accused of that...

Regards,
-Eric
Forum: General Talk 03-07-2011, 04:51 AM  
What Bible do you have or have read?
Posted By ramblinman
Replies: 613
Views: 61,250
I've kind of understood that the King James Version came about due to a certain powerful world leader (the King in question) siding with the then-minority view that an understandable Bible translated into the then-current vernacular (English) should be made available to the masses, thereby applying substantial resources from a reasonably bottomless supply towards employing some of the best available scholars, etc, of the day in that essentially non-profit task. Cynics might jump to a conclusion that he had his own political purposes in the whole endeavor, but I don't know that any serious modern Bible scholars (whether of the faithful or not) would actually find evidence of that in the KJV. And I also tend to think that a situation where the common people have no access to the scriptures whose tenets they are supposedly being taught (by potentially other powerful world leaders, with potentially their own interests at stake) is even worse / more prone to abuse. At this present point in history, I think that all branches of the Church are in favor of their adherents actually reading / understanding the Bible for themselves - so maybe it's a moot point... Except that...

It might be worth bearing in mind that many of the modern translations - some of which are considered to be quite good, and which should have derived some benefit from greater textual resources / evidences which have come to light since the 17th century (Dead Sea Scrolls, for example) - are nonetheless published and marketed by decidedly non-religious (or anti-religious? or anti-Christian?) corporate powers-that-be (no need to mention names). I think that thus far this has had very little if any effect on the accuracy of the content / translations, but it would seem that the potential for problems could be there when things like profitability come into the question - it is so in every other realm of existence (like with cameras... which is a lot of the reason why "the perfect camera" never seems to show up...at least in my book). A translation done more as a labor of love by those who see the text as something unique and valuable would seem to have a greater likelihood of avoiding certain pitfalls common to socio-political / corporate / winds of change... Reviewers rightly praise a camera that "seems as if it was designed by photographers, rather than by marketing types". Likewise, I tend to think that the best (most reliable / accurate) Bible translations might be likely to come from people who have personally benefited from the spirit of its teachings, rather than from those who are attempting to reap the material profits of "the world's all-time best-selling book" (offending people, even if a genuine translation of the original texts required it, could cut into profits).

In this regard I think I could recommend the relatively recent ESV (English Standard Version), which seems to have been born out of rather clear-hearted sentiments (faith, I think), and moreover, skirting the profitability issues, could be had for as little as $5 in Bible book stores (or maybe even direct from the publisher) as recently as a few years ago. Also can be downloaded for free as a module of the equally free "e-sword" - software which I can also recommend for all its study aids, historical commentaries and dictionaries, etc, etc...

All the debating aside, I don't see how anyone can really possess a deep understanding of Western culture without also possessing a substantial understanding of the Bible and its basic message. A lot of people dismiss it / ignore it a little too easily. In India, a good number of the well-known Hindu "god-men" regard it a lot more seriously than most modern Westerners (who in a number of ways have benefited - directly or indirectly - from its teachings over the past centuries) tend to.


Regards,
Eric
Forum: Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 03-07-2011, 03:48 AM  
*ist DS(2) not recording...blank images (in cold weather)
Posted By ramblinman
Replies: 4
Views: 2,676
Had old MX/KX till now, and a good collection of primes, but did all my painstaking research and finally plunged into DSLR world via a very clean second-hand *ist DS2 off E-bad. Friend shot my wedding with it with good results. That was in a place in the hills of moderate temperature. Arriving back up here at 7,000ft in the Himalayas in winter, everything's still working great - camera turns on and seems to function in every way (displays, menus, focus, etc), but the images are not writing to any card at room temperature (which is about 60-65degrees presently). UNLESS I put the camera near a heater for awhile, after which everything's perfect again, with all images recording / reviewing properly (till it cools off!).

I know from past experience with electronics that a lot of temperature-induced faults come down to cracked solder joints on the circuit boards, etc - having seen a number of similar complaints (but no answers) on Fixya or some other tech site re: this particular camera (but not noting temperature), I was just wondering if it was a common enough issue that someone out there could give info re: any particular trouble spot / component in the circuit. I'm a relatively technical guy, don't mind re-flowing solder joints, etc - but prefer a little more info before diving in blind...

By the way, review works, but all images are coming out either black or pink. Sometimes in the instant review there is a very slim lighter line across the bottom of the display which MAY be a recorded portion, though I'm unsure. And YES, I do remember to take off my lens cap when shooting...

Thanks,
Eric
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