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Forum: Pentax K-3 & K-3 II 09-13-2020, 04:55 PM  
why I won't buy a k3 (Warning: Satire Thread)
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 103,006
Views: 4,831,900
I hesitate to post this, not least because this thread lost it's original (funny, useful) purpose long ago. But after three moderator posts in a row, all continuing the offtopic chat, it seems now or forever hold my peace: why is this thread allowed (and by the moderators' own contributions, encouraged) to become a general chat thing, whereas other threads equally harmless are firmly shutdown, often by those same moderators, for "going off topic"?

I own a K3, and come to this forum to see what if anything is new and interesting. This thread is always bubbling at the top with inanity about cars, crocodiles and other stuff. Perhaps it could be renamed or moved somewhere less specific to the K3? The activity means it pops up in Google when searching for the K3, and it makes neither a good impression on the model, Pentax, Pentaxians and dare I say, this forum.

I imagine this will be my last post.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 08-27-2020, 04:20 PM  
New Ricoh Charger
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 234
Views: 26,452
Also see this interesting idea Pentax D-li90 battery adapter for the H
Forum: Pentax K-3 & K-3 II 08-27-2020, 07:26 AM  
K3 sample shots ... post here !
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 12,382
Views: 1,659,047
Some quick snaps in the garden today. The lens is the original DA70mm limited. I added an old close up filter from my film days.



Shot as JPEG at 6MP, transferred to ipad via Toshiba Air WiFi card, and uploaded.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 08-27-2020, 06:36 AM  
New Ricoh Charger
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 234
Views: 26,452
Release date is November 30 in Japan

Amazon Price is ¥5370 (about 20% off list) for the base (without USB-C power supply) for use with your own USB-C cable and charger.

Or you can buy the additional K-BC177J USB-C power supply and cable for another ¥12,530

Supports D-LI90 and D-LI90P

Approximate charging time - USB cable charging: about 4.5 hours, fast charging (when using K-BC177J): about 2.5 hours

Pictures attached
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 08-27-2020, 03:38 AM  
Silver limited editions coming out: K-1 II + DFA Stars
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 87
Views: 14,101
Now listed on Amazon Japan for delivery Sep 25 (end Jan 2021 for the 85)

Prices:

K1ii + Grip ¥234,499
FA50 ¥137,798
FA70-200 ¥237,371
FA85 ¥222,008

You can roughly divide by 100 (actually 106 today, but it varies of course) for US$ equivalent, and 140 for GBP.

The lenses are priced at 30% off list, which is often the case in Japan.
Forum: Pentax K-3 & K-3 II 08-20-2020, 09:31 PM  
It's 2020 and my K-3 still rocks
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 84
Views: 9,086
A long series (check sig...) of happy Pentax ownership before I ended up via a massive loop encompassing many Nikons including the D750 and D500, back to a K5.

Last year, I traded my K5 for a KP, and regretted it. The KP can make fine photos but I just didn't get on with the ergonomics. I owned all the grips. The wheels somehow annoyed me too. I realised the K5 (and the K7 I owned before it) fit me better.

Rather than buy another K5, I tried and bought the K-S1. It is very good! I actually prefer its ergonomics and grip to the KP. It works with my Astrotracer too. But eventually, the lightweight build proved a little too lightweight, and I cracked the case.

So that went, and I replaced it with a lovely K3 "Premium Edition" in silver. Found one, boxed including the matching grip and special strap, with ~1800 clicks for under $400. Familiar ergonomics and build quality, excellent images. I have a fast card in Slot 1 for RAWs and a Toshiba wi-fi card in Slot 2 for lower resolution JPEGs. These can be sent to my phone easily for quick checks or sharing.

I really love it.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 08-20-2020, 07:05 PM  
Patents possibly linked to the APS-C flagship
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 120
Views: 16,986
The focus patent appears to refer to a stacked sensor where one layer is for focusing and one layer for traditional image capture. Rather than having the "focus pixels" on the same layer as the imaging one. The challenges addressed by the patent include adjusting for the effects of both colour and lens performance on the focussing.

As always the patent leaves out enough detail to ensure some ambiguity remains. But if implemented ideally, it seems a good idea - phase detection autofocus performance with the mirror up ("live view"). This, and the improved pentaprism, shows there is plenty of (meaningful) innovation left in DSLRs.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 08-15-2020, 07:05 PM  
R03010 = K-new was registered by FCC on 27 July 2020
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 238
Views: 30,846
I suspect K-4, based on the serial numbers of the four tested units in the FCC submission. "PP4-2 #196" etc. "PP" being "Pre Production", "4" being the model, and #196 (and the three other numbered units) being the serial.

Regarding one reading of "4" being the same as "death" in Japanese, while this is true, it has many other readings too. And there are many current and classic cameras (and other items) with "4" in the name, some of them quite successful 😁.

Also, after quarter of a century living in Japan, I have never seen a building here lacking a fourth floor...

S
Forum: Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 05-23-2013, 11:36 PM  
After Nikons quality catastrophies with D600, D7100 and D800
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 56
Views: 14,475
I used manual focus Nikkors with my old D40 and now with my new-old D50. They work just fine, but of course, you have manual metering. The D7000 ( or D200/D300 if you don't "need" todays current toy ) add full matrix metering with MF lenses too, as ( unlike a certain brand :p ) they all have an aperture-feeler... but there is no need to buy these bodies to use MF lenses.
Forum: Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 05-22-2013, 03:56 AM  
D40 & Windows 8
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 3
Views: 1,716
You shouldn't need any software to read the SD card ( if that is the problem ? ). Just put the card in any SD Card reader, no drivers required.

If you are trying to use Nikon's original D40 software to "manage" your photos, respectfully, I would think it is time to move on. Use whatever comes with Windows 8, or one of the many many free software packages.

( Sorry I can't advise which to use. I use a Mac with my D50, and Macs have iPhoto and RAW support for all cameras built in. I am sure Windows has similar software either built in or available for little or no cost )

No need to buy a new camera !
Forum: Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 05-19-2013, 03:36 PM  
If you move away from Pentax, which brand will you consider and why?
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 122
Views: 11,854
I'm sure you can get good images from the K100DS, I actually considered it too. The D40 by the way has no top LCD. It was introduced after the D50 and was a cut-down version, cheaper to make. No top LCD, no dedicated ISO/WB/Quality buttons, no buffer-remaining display in the VF ( and some other VF omissions ) and no focussing motor. It retained the unusual hybrid shutter giving 1/500 flash sync, still unbeatable, and had a higher resolution rear screen. I bought one when it came out, and it survived half a decade of pretty rough use, including rock-climbing in the snow and rain. It's made well, not as solid as the ( admittedly more expensive ) D50, but far better than current budget models.

As for warmth, this just depends on the settings and the manufacturers defaults. You can cooler shots from the Nikon by changing the picture mode, WB or just shooting raw. The default JPEGs are excellent, but most of all, Nikon's focussing and exposure metering seem ahead, even on the 8 year old D50, of much more recent Pentax models. My K7 ( same sensor as K20D ? ) was great, but the metering was easily fooled, the focus was often wayward, and the noise was both greater than, and harder to deal with, than the humble D50.
Forum: Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 05-19-2013, 06:29 AM  
If you move away from Pentax, which brand will you consider and why?
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 122
Views: 11,854
You are right about the focussing motor, though all of those too are discontinued. If you want a focussing motor on a new model, you need a D7000/D7100 or better. The D50 has 1/500 flash sync, a top LCD, a lower-noise sensor than the D70, and amazing battery life ( 2000 shots ).

Cameras of this age, eight years old now, are priced as much as to their condition as features. The D50 I found was mint, boxed and sold at a dealer for less than US$100 with dealer guarantee. Similar age/spec Pentax models go for about the same. But Nikon's "base" models, at least of that age, were amazingly well built. They make an excellent purchase even today if you can find one in good condition.
Forum: Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 05-19-2013, 06:24 AM  
After Nikons quality catastrophies with D600, D7100 and D800
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 56
Views: 14,475
Fujiya Camera, Nakano

Pentax is the only brand that is constantly featured in their "Outlet" section with the K30 and K5ii/K5iis/K01 always discounted. Additionally, Fujiya has regular sales, often just using the excuse "it's the weekend !" where Pentax are further discounted.

Right now, Fujiya has the K5ii body for US$680 and K30 body for US$417 equivalent. Last weekend, both were reduced further. Amazon Japan prices are often similar.

My point only being that the OP's comment that "no other camera" has fallen 30% since launch is debatable, first because the yen has fallen as much in 3 months, and second, well, the K5 / K30 / K01 / Q price histories say it all :eek:
Forum: Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 05-17-2013, 06:45 PM  
After Nikons quality catastrophies with D600, D7100 and D800
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 56
Views: 14,475
Hmm, the yen has fallen by 30% against the dollar in the last 3 months alone. A US importer can take advantage of that for slow-selling models.

Speaking of which ...

Pentax K5ii, brand new, from a well known B&M dealer, is available at around US$650 in Tokyo. I've even seen it for US$600 on a weekend offer recently. That's 40% down...

There are lots of reports of problems with popular brand cameras, because there are lots of users. If you don't have a Nikon, why on earth do you care though ?
Forum: Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Other Camera Brands 05-17-2013, 05:13 PM  
If you move away from Pentax, which brand will you consider and why?
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 122
Views: 11,854
I owned the Pentax K7 and K10D plus about 10 Pentax lenses and a bunch of Pentax accesories. I recently sold the lot. I considered Canon and Nikon DSLRs as replacements. I have no interest in MILC having owned Panasonic GF1, GF3, G1 and Olympus EPL2 and found them all wanting. I have a Ricoh GRD4 for compact, and for me, a DSLR is the right choice as a complement.

I got out of Pentax because on reviewing my photos, I found the ones taken in 2006 with the Nikon D40 I owned previously were amongst my best. I also, if I may be frank, got extremely tired of the online "community" of Pentax users, a core of whom who seem to revel in their own misery and moaning.

I had a good look at the Canons and almost bought a 5D. It's a terrific camera still. I still had some Nikon glass from my D40 and earlier Nikon film days though, so an old Nikon D50 was purchased. It's Nikon's oldest consumer DSLR, with a 6MP APS-C CCD sensor capable of gorgeous images, a 2000-shot battery, and the smallest that has both a top LCD and focussing motor. These features are now reserved only for Nikon's mid and top tiers, which are larger. I'd skip all those though and get a D600 full-frame in the future. All my Nikon lenses are "full frame" so I feel perfectly well set up. Also, unlike the Canon, all the vintage Nikon lenses are compatible and I have ready access to these at good prices in Tokyo. The D50 may be old ( I bought mine used, mint and boxed, for less than US$100 ) but it focusses more accurately than my old K7, exposes more accurately, and has a 1/500 flash sync. It's a great camera. I use it with an old screw-drive AF-D 50mm 1.8 and the famous old Tokina 28-70 2.8 mainly.

No regrets from leaving Pentax. I have as much interest in brand loyalty as a photon :-)
Forum: Homepage & Official Pentax News 05-04-2013, 04:46 PM  
Pentax enhances its competitive offerings with a host of price reductions and instant
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 109
Views: 12,096
Still a lot of hand-wringing over Pentax USA actions being extrapolated into theories and judgements about Pentax ( a company that sells in other countries too ...)

My experience: Pentax is represented in every camera shop here ( Japan ). Full range usually, including lenses. Ricoh likewise, you'll find the GRD ( black and white ) and the GXR ( plus all it's lensors ) and the other compacts all on display, with knowledgeable staff. In perhaps the largest store in Tokyo, where an entire floor the size of a football field is dedicated to cameras, the top-selling camera when I visited recently was ...

The Pentax Q10

Pentax USA may or may not be ballsing things up, but it doesn't necessarily follow that Pentax as a company is daft/doomed/inept. There is more to it than the US market.
Forum: Homepage & Official Pentax News 05-04-2013, 04:07 AM  
Pentax enhances its competitive offerings with a host of price reductions and instant
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 109
Views: 12,096
Interesting. There doesn't seem to be any pricing change in Japan. If anything, Pentax equipment is getting cheaper at retail, the K5iis body now at $800 for example. No changes on lens prices.

Perhaps there should be a distinction between the forum, ahem, "love" shown to Pentax/Ricoh America and Pentax/Ricoh ROTW ( rest of the world ... where most of us live :-) )
Forum: Homepage & Official Pentax News 05-02-2013, 11:39 AM  
Pentax enhances its competitive offerings with a host of price reductions and instant
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 109
Views: 12,096
Presumably the yen slumping 20% in value against the dollar allows these dollar price cuts to happen with no yen impact on the Japanese company's earnings.

Well done Abe-san ( Japanese Prime Minister ). PentaxForums applauds your economic policy :-)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 04-15-2013, 07:44 AM  
New official Ricoh GR (2013) video
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 193
Views: 55,583
Has all the makings of an instant classic. With Ricoh's history of superb long term support for the GR, it's a not a leap of faith for potential purchasers either. Have to wonder about Canikon's commitment to such "novelty" items where they pose a threat to their DSLR ecosystems.

( Not sure Ricoh need worry about Pentax DSLRs, this GRD will probably be the model that buys Pentax some time and money to work on those :lol: )

Also interesting seeing the promo video and how recently and close to my house some of those photos were taken. The one below is about 5 minutes walk away from where I am typing this. It can only have been taken in the last 2 weeks, when the cherry blossom was in flower. I was there too once or twice ( with my K7 ) but didn't notice any furtive filming happening :)
Forum: Ricoh GR 04-15-2013, 07:11 AM  
Ricoh GRD (any flavour): come on down!
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 156
Views: 32,535
Well after wanting a GR21 many years ago, I finally bought my first Ricoh. A very lightly used GRDII, still with box and accessories.

It had the original V1 firmware on it, so I first updated that to v2.4 and then set about reading the 242-page manual and the latest firmware revision addendum. My evenings are very exciting :lol:

After much messing around, getting the settings to my liking, I had a play. I know it's something of a cliché in Ricoh-owning circles, but really, the team behind this item clearly understand photographers ! It's as close to "disappearing" as a camera can be. Just me and a great lens. I like how quiet it is. I like how I can switch off the "power on" light - which I have, and disable the AF-assist light - which I have. I like that there is no lens cap. I like that it fits in a pocket. Not a "qualifier-pocket" either, a normal, unqualified, pocket. Perhaps I have finally found the digital successor to my lovely old Rollei 35.

Cue candid rabbit photos, obviously :lol:. Handheld ( other hand was sometimes holding a rabbit :D ) JPEGs, messed with in Aperture. Just snapshots but the quietness of operation was much appreciated, especially when you put something this close to a prey animal with nerves and long sharp teeth. I'm pleased with this lens performance. I am very pleased with the camera handling.

Increasingly, I care less and less about IQ and more and more about handling, feel, and other things you can't easily measure with test charts. Doesn't make for good "forum battles" but having the "winning" technical tool de jour is a.) transient b.) does absolutely nothing for the interest of your photos and c.) doesn't make you happy.

This one makes me happy. Bravo Ricoh. I hope the union with Pentax brings out the best from both of you.
Forum: Homepage & Official Pentax News 04-06-2013, 09:11 PM  
PENTAX INTRODUCES THE K-30 DSLR IN A VARIETY OF NEW COLORS AND FINISHES Nine Bold Col
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 5
Views: 2,279
If it is the same as Japan ( where these same colours have been available since launch ) it is usually 5-7 days for a custom colour if not actually in stock. Some variants are listed as "1 to 2 months" though.

Try to see these in person before ordering. I love the matt ( "silky" ) ones, especially the so-named "green", "red" and orange, but the gloss ( "crystal" ) ones look a bit cheap.
Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion 03-30-2013, 01:32 AM  
I just sold my K10D
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 12
Views: 1,706
I just did exactly that too, and can report the same outcome. The 10D CCD output is beautiful.
Forum: Pentax DSLR and Camera Articles 03-29-2013, 08:12 PM  
Sticky: How-to: Check Pentax camera shutter count and manufacture date online
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 54
Views: 79,744
Very useful, gives much more information than another online tool I found. On my recently-acquired K10D ...

Results
Camera PENTAX K10D
Manufature Date 2007:05:28
Shutter Count 29,586

Full EXIF Data
AEExposureTime 1/10
AELock Off
AEMeteringMode Multi-segment
AEMeteringSegments 4.4 4.8 5.5 5.6 6.0 5.8 5.2 4.4 5.5 6.8 3.8 3.8 4.9 4.5 6.4 4.6
AEMinExposureTime 1/3862
AEProgramMode MTF Program (P-Shift)
AFIntegrationTime 134 ms
AFPointMode Fixed Center
AFPointSelected Fixed Center
AFPointSelected2 Center
AFPointsInFocus Center (horizontal)
ApertureRingUse Permitted
AutoAperture On
AutoBracketing 0 EV, No Extended Bracket
BlackPoint 0 0 0 0
BodyBatteryADLoad 181 (8.0V, 85%)
BodyBatteryADNoLoad 186 (8.2V, 88%)
BodyBatteryState Full
BracketShotNumber n/a
CPUFirmwareVersion 1.31.00.19
CameraTemperature 15 C
CircleOfConfusion 0.020 mm
ColorSpace sRGB
ComponentsConfiguration Y, Cb, Cr, -
Compression JPEG (old-style)
Contrast Normal
CreateDate 2013:03:30 11:52:09
CustomRendered Normal
DSPFirmwareVersion 1.31.00.19
Date 2013:03:30
DateTimeOriginal 2013:03:30 11:52:09
DestinationCity New York
DestinationDST No
DriveMode Continuous; No Timer; Shutter Button; Single Exposure
DriveMode2 Continuous
E-DialInProgram P Shift
EVSteps 1/3 EV Steps
EncodingProcess Baseline DCT, Huffman coding
ExifByteOrder Big-endian (Motorola, MM)
ExifVersion 0221
ExposureMode Auto
ExposureProgram Not Defined
ExposureTime 1/10
ExternalFlashBounce n/a
ExternalFlashExposureComp n/a
ExternalFlashGuideNumber n/a
ExternalFlashMode Off
FOV 46.4 deg
FileAccessDate 2013:03:29 21:58:10-05:00
FileInodeChangeDate 2013:03:29 22:00:20-05:00
FileModifyDate 2013:03:29 22:00:20-05:00
FileSize 1890 kB
FileSource Digital Camera
FileType JPEG
Flash Off, Did not fire
FlashMeteringSegments 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
FlashMode Off, Did not fire; Internal
FlashOptions Normal
FlashOptions2 Normal
FlashStatus Off
FlashpixVersion 0100
FocalLength 28.0 mm
FocalLength35efl 28.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 42.0 mm)
FocalLengthIn35mmFormat 42 mm
FocusMode Manual
FocusMode2 Manual
GripBatteryState Empty or Missing
HometownCity Tokyo
HometownDST No
HyperfocalDistance 9.78 m
ISOSetting Manual
ImageEditing None
ImageSize 3872x2592
ImageTone Natural
InternalFlashMode Did not fire, Normal
InteropIndex R98 - DCF basic file (sRGB)
InteropVersion 0100
JpgRecordedPixels 10 MP
LensID A Series Lens
LensType A Series Lens
MIMEType image/jpeg
Make PENTAX Corporation
ManufactureDate 2007:05:28
MeteringMode Multi-segment
MeteringMode2 Multi-segment
MeteringMode3 Multi-segment
Model PENTAX K10D
ModifyDate 2013:03:30 11:52:09
MultipleExposureSet Off
NoiseReduction Off
Orientation Horizontal (normal)
PentaxModelID K10D
PentaxVersion 3.0.0.0
PictureMode MTF Program; 1/3 EV steps
PictureMode2 Program AE
PowerSource Body Battery
PreviewImage (Binary data 25528 bytes)
PreviewImageBorders 26 26 0 0
PreviewImageSize 640x480
PrintIMVersion 0300
ProductionCode 8.6 (camera has been serviced)
ProgramLine MTF
Quality Best
RawAndJpgRecording JPEG (Best)
ResolutionUnit inches
Rotation Horizontal (normal)
SRActive Yes
SRFocalLength 28 mm
SRHalfPressTime 0.30 s
SRResult Not stabilized
Saturation Normal
SceneCaptureType Standard
SceneType Directly photographed
SensingMethod One-chip color area
SensitivitySteps As EV Steps
ShakeReduction On
Sharpness Normal
ShutterSpeed 1/10
SlaveFlashMeteringSegments 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Software K10D Ver 1.31
Subject
SubjectDistanceRange Distant
ThumbnailImage (Binary data 6413 bytes)
Time 11:52:09
TvExposureTimeSetting 1/128
WB_RGGBLevelsCloudy 14560 8192 8192 7782
WB_RGGBLevelsDaylight 13600 8192 8192 8765
WB_RGGBLevelsFlash 13632 8192 8192 8601
WB_RGGBLevelsFluorescentD 17376 8192 8192 8847
WB_RGGBLevelsFluorescentN 14528 8192 8192 10076
WB_RGGBLevelsFluorescentW 13088 8192 8192 12206
WB_RGGBLevelsShade 16128 8192 8192 6635
WB_RGGBLevelsTungsten 8192 8192 8192 20971
WhiteBalance Auto
WhiteBalanceMode Auto (White Fluorescent)
WhiteBalanceSet Auto
WhitePoint 10272 8192 8192 12608
WorldTimeLocation Hometown
XMPToolkit XMP Core 5.1.2
YCbCrPositioning Co-sited
YCbCrSubSampling YCbCr4:2:2 (2 1)

Anyone know the significance of "Production Code" as highlighted in red ? Apart from the obvious, that the camera has been serviced at some point.

Cheers
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 11-09-2012, 03:36 AM  
DA40 Ltd cheaper than DA40 xs, any reason ...
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 23
Views: 4,413
I've heard differing reports on whether either lens covers full frame, at all apertures. The most common description of the optics of the XS is that they are the same as the Ltd, but with the latest coatings and rounded aperture blades.

This topic was about why the XS is more expensive than ( or the same price as ) the Ltd in its home market Japan. Maybe the size and newer coatings ? Maybe just Pentax pricing weirdness :-)

Paul
Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion 11-08-2012, 03:16 AM  
Pentax/Ricoh: De-cripple the K-mount! PETITION
Posted By Sankon
Replies: 502
Views: 69,997
At the very certain risk of stating the obvious, but ... you do have the 55mm and 135mm switched to "M" not "A" on the lens ? I have a 55mm and 135 Tak ( and a 200, and a 300... :) ) and the aperture works on all of them, as long as it is switched to M.

My 28mm KA works fine too. I just put the aperture ring on "A" and use the rear "e-dial" for aperture.

To the subsequent poster that felt this thread is "useful". I am not so sure. There are other things that Pentax might prioritise in my opinion, than catering to the extremely marginal desires of a very minor group of users who may occasionally want to use their old lenses with open-aperture composition. Even though they won't take any better photos. It's a near-meaningless feature for most camera buyers, even ones who understand what it means. Given some of the answers on this thread, not even some of the highly knowledgeable self-selecting members of a Pentax enthusiasts forum seem to know ( "decripple it NOW" ) so Mr Joe Public has little chance.

I'd prefer Pentax to work on things that are more immediately meaningful to more people. Such as fixing SDM ( providing an extended warranty to prove it ), improving the autofocus and metering with current lenses ( my old Nikon D40 meters much more consistently than my newer K7 ), getting their pricing strategy under control, and spending time on promotion to dealers and public alike. They make good stuff. This whining isn't helpful.

In my opinion, contents may settle after posting, etc

Paul
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