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Forum: Video Recording and Processing 11-03-2017, 04:12 AM  
Pentax Cinematography.
Posted By k5astro
Replies: 48
Views: 8,445
I take back what I said. I bad mouthed K5 for video a little while back but I recently made a little video of opportune clips and the K5 stuff looked pretty good. Here it is - the nature stuff at the beginning is K5ii:



Forum: Video Recording and Processing 08-13-2017, 05:17 PM  
Turn off SR for video?
Posted By richandfleur
Replies: 18
Views: 3,150
Yep, as above, they all have the option to enable or disable the stabilisation.


In stills it's still real mechanical sensor stabilisation, but in video it's an electronic software attempt, which frankly isn't very good. Ok for small movements, but goes nuts at times because it has to guess at what's shaking vs actual intended movement.


Best option is to disable it at all times during video, and when you are tripod mounted or intentionally panning in stills.
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 08-22-2017, 03:45 AM  
K1 Video is not that bad
Posted By Snakeisthestuff
Replies: 26
Views: 4,163
There are several reasons why people don't bother with uploading videos ( huge file size, privacy reasons - family members in video, ..).

As per request a very short unedited video-sample (K-1 FF-Mode + DA* 55 + ext. mic Rode stereo video mic pro):
Dropbox - IMGP4859.avi

Download file for full video quality inspection (~100 MB). Original camera codec, not reencoded in any way.

PS: I did turn the electronic SR off, hence the shaking in the movie (which in my sense looks still better then the artificial "stabilized" movement of Pentax electronic SR implementation, plus I can use deshake in vdub afterwards for better electronic stabilization, if I like to).
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 07-10-2017, 04:25 AM  
Nice K5 video..whats the gear?
Posted By Na Horuk
Replies: 18
Views: 2,561
I have K-01 and find its video to be fairly poor. K-01 was the first to have digital SR instead of mechanical. This means the frame gets cropped even if you disable SR, and if you enable digital SR the whole frame look wobbly. Maybe K-01 and subsequent cameras have better video encoding or "in camera PP". The real problem is video features have not changed much since the K-01. This is why some other brands are so far ahead of Pentax in regards to video
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 07-05-2017, 05:39 AM  
Go here, do this, tell 'em about the video issues.
Posted By TaoMaas
Replies: 45
Views: 4,975
Absolutely! When people are trying to decide between various DSLRs for shooting stills, quite often the answer eventually becomes, "Most every modern DSLR is capable of producing great photos." And that's true...they are. The same answer is almost true for video, with the exception of Pentax. Pentax's video is usable, but it needs to be better...and I think it could be if a little more emphasis were placed on it. It kills me when someone is seeking a camera to shoot video for YouTube and folks recommend other cameras besides Pentax even when it's obvious that the person is simply looking to upgrade over the built-in camera on their laptop.

On a side note: For those who say, "Get a dedicated video camera"...been there, done that...about 20 years ago. At the time, it was the only real option. Times have changed though and I'm just waiting and hoping that Pentax changes with them.
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 07-05-2017, 04:03 AM  
Go here, do this, tell 'em about the video issues.
Posted By dofmaster
Replies: 45
Views: 4,975
This is quite right. Pentax doesn't need to be at the lead when it comes to video, it just needs to be in the middle of the pack. And that means workable video.

This is probably something Ricoh know and are working on. The reality is that people who make money from photography won't buy Pentax products if they don't up their game here, or people who have bought Pentax products will switch systems if they don't.

Here's what would be smart for Pentax: launch a dedicated video DSLR with 4k plus workable in-video focussing system, so people invested in the system can buy their second camera body to use with all their expensive glass. Pentax would also potentially get new customers, and then it could help defray the R&D investment through this video-specific model, before they introduce 4K video on the K1 mark II.

Video is the future of earning money with cameras for 80% of professionals (see my earlier post in this thread). If Pentax wants to exclude young professionals from being able to use its products, then I suggest selling your Ricoh shares.
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 07-23-2017, 01:30 PM  
What do you guys do for video?
Posted By richandfleur
Replies: 180
Views: 15,468
Spent a whole day shooting the content for two corporate training videos yesterday. Flew an hour to location, so had to prep well.

Have solid content, but for next time will change a few things.

First is I'll switch to full manual. Had used AV mode with auto centre weighted metering. This worked really well in most aspects but certain subject matter totally throws the exposure at times, as the metering compensates.

This should also allow me to cap the ISO, which I couldn't seem to adjust in AV mode.

Secondly I will investigate the highlight and shadow correction, as a lot of the highlights are blown. Anything I can do to tweak this in camera would be really beneficial.

Apart from that, it was really solid. Went through two K-3 batteries but had the K-S1 as a backup.

Great experience. Just need a way to unlock the pro video modes on the Pentax now ;)
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 07-08-2017, 05:45 PM  
Pentax Cinematography.
Posted By PiDicus Rex
Replies: 48
Views: 8,445
So I was out and about filming last night with a mate, and I'm typing this before hitting the pillows.

We met up with some of the Media reps for Victoria Police, who were holding one of their "Safe Night" events, where they stop hundreds of drivers for alcohol, drug, roadworthy, licensing, EPA and fines checks, looking for Un-safe dirvers, and Un-safe cars.

Moved around, shooting on the K-01's, with the DA40, KA 50f1.4, and Sigma 70-300 f4-5.6, and using the ISO from around 320 with the 50mm, to 2000 with the zoom.

This sample is "Ungraded", and was shot in the 'Natural" profile - an almost out-of-the-box set up.

I wasn't going to post any footage like this up yet, but I noticed something while crashing the shots together in DaVinci Resolve.

I would normally edit in Edius, which has served me well for nearly two decades. Edius is the NLE that has always had the best support for native CoDecs, it's fast and runs on nearly any spec PC, right up until the latest versions.

What I noticed with Resolve though, was it seems to do a much nicer job of decompressing footage from the h.264 CoDec in the MOV files. This may be due to being able to access the system GPU(s) and use them to do the number crunching, instead of the CPU.

I'll have to look at the differences more closely later.

For now, you should be able to see what I was seeing - less blotchy patches in the dark areas of the video

Music is by Eric, you can find his links here in the Video section of the forum.

Oh/And,... yes, I kept shooting in the rain, even though the K-01 isn't as WR as the DSLR's we love.
It is more WR then the C100 one of the reps had. :)
















You Tube



Forum: Video Recording and Processing 07-01-2017, 08:08 AM  
What do you guys do for video?
Posted By kadajawi
Replies: 180
Views: 15,468
Phew. Erm. I did spot it somewhere in the menus (didn't read the manuals), but didn't want to mess around too much. The image profile looks good the way it is, relatively flat (there's only so much this sensor can do). And it just works.

If size isn't an issue, go for the G85. It has the quieter shutter (significantly so, though the GX80 isn't bad... ever heard a Sony A7?). It has a better EVF. It has a better grip. It has more function buttons, including a switch to select between MF and AF (if you want to do that with the GX80 it will take you several button presses through the menu!). It's simply the better camera, however the GX80 is significantly smaller in the bag and way less DSLR-y, and thus it gets my vote.

My K-5 did overheat occasionally, but only under the harshest of conditions. Just like the GX80. Sony has that issue though, and it's bad. That's why I am probably going to keep the GX80, because my K-5 does some things wonderfully, but others not, and both cameras complement each other nicely IMHO. Sony? The A7 series sounds like a machine gun, the lenses are huge. Controls seem fine though, but when I actually used the cameras they infuriated me. Perhaps a deep dive into the menu can fix that... The alpha 6000 series seems fine, with a few relatively small lenses, but heat is an issue, and to get the one that is actually desireable you'll be spending full frame money on it. No freaking way. Just no. Olympus has no advantage to Panasonic IMHO, and several disadvantages. For stills, both are good. For video, Panasonic is better. Olympus had the SR advantage, but that's gone, and the rest of their video functionality is just not good enough. Fuji... great stills, not so good videos. Not worth it. Other Panasonic models... the GX8 is appealing too, and superior in many ways, with better controls etc., but it is also significantly larger. The G7, G85 etc. look too much like SLRs and are too big. And Canon, Nikon and Pentax... :lol::lol::lol:
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 07-01-2017, 06:43 AM  
What do you guys do for video?
Posted By PiDicus Rex
Replies: 180
Views: 15,468
Wholly Carp, that's a weird way, I was expecting something like loading Cinestyle on Canon DSLR's.
That actually makes the G85 even more appealing, as CineD and CineV are included.

Did you spot in the manuals, that the GX85, G85, GH4 & GH5 range has adjustable curves? See page 195 of the GX80/85 manual.

---------- Post added 01-07-17 at 11:51 PM ----------


Yes, the 'MovieSR' is still the same junk - we're still watching to see if Ricoh-Pentax will carry through with the re-introduction of Sensor Shift, as was commented on in the CP+ interview by Adam.

As for overheating, it's a Sony Alpha thing, not a Pentax thing.
I know what it took to get the Temp symbol to pop up on my K-01 screen, and I don't expect anyone else to ever see it.
I've used the camera with the power saving setting all off, so I could record continuously, with just a re-hit of the Shutter button every 19 minutes (1080p25), and recorded long enough to flatten the battery, without seeing the Temp warning.
The one time I did see it, was 2hours in to a shoot, when I moved from under and umbrella, to having the K-01 in direct sunlight, on a day where the weather was over 35degC most of the day, and peaked in the afternoon at around 40degC.

Overheating during Video, on a Pentax, as far as I'm concerned, unless you live somewhere like Darwin, it's a myth.
Forum: Pentax K-5 & K-5 II 11-09-2014, 08:37 PM  
New K-5 firmware version 1.16
Posted By MarkJerling
Replies: 121
Views: 48,156
That is still a pretty low risk - Even thought that's probably not much comfort for you, Tom!
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 08-08-2014, 12:43 AM  
So how bad is Movie SR, really?
Posted By Steve.Ledger
Replies: 23
Views: 5,648
Pretty good.
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 07-20-2014, 04:40 PM  
The 'Video' wishlist.
Posted By kadajawi
Replies: 137
Views: 12,740
Interesting idea. I can do that test, eventually.


Ok, here we go with my wishlist:


I want Pentax to treat video seriously, as a tool that is meant for professional users. Imagine a K-3 only having the green mode for stills. Ridiculous, right? Of course the users want control over aperture, exposure, and a TON of other things, and of course he doesn't want to be limited to JPEG. The green mode is there for those situations when you give the camera to someone else to take a group photo for you. Yet the video mode in any Pentax is basically stuck in the green mode.


Here's the thing: Without great AF the video mode is useless for consumers who just want to shoot a simple video. DSLRs, at least the big ones, like the K-3 and 645Z are owned and used by enthusiasts or professional users. People who put effort into their work and are more or less skilled (and want to improve themselves). That's also the kind of video shooting a DSLR lends itself to.


Pentax should not dumb their cameras down, or, perhaps better, offer an option in the firmware to unlock the advanced features.


Things I want/think they make sense for some users:


SR is an obvious one. 3 modes, at least. None, mechanical and electronic SR. More would be better. One mode for panning (so it corrects vertically), not horizontally. A combined mode where the mechanical SR filters out fast movements, and the electronic SR (using data from the accelerometer) filters out slow movements, and is able to "move" the sensor back in the center so it can take bumps again, instead of being maxed out. Basically a super steady mode. None and mechanical SR should be un-cropped, but with the option of giving you a crop (different levels of crop perhaps even?). We can go even further: Have a button that locks the sensor position, even while recording (i.e. the sensor will do it's best to keep the video steady at that position, even when it means it's maxed out. It will not try to go back to a center position. If you press it, an overlay will appear showing you where the sensor currently is, so you can balance it out by hand. Another button can tell the camera you are going to pan, so it knows not to do this overshooting and then going back thing that sometimes can appear when panning a bit faster. Additionally you could be able to set exactly how the camera tries to balance out camera shake, i.e. will it let you get a handheld look that just filters out stuff that leads to a wobbling picture, or do you want something that is really smooth?


MJPEG is a minimum requirement. Many video cameras and DSLRs offer you different quality settings AND different codecs, the Sony A7s for example has MP4, AVCHD and XAVC-S. Yes, they are all based around h264, but there's quite some difference. Especially XAVC-S is pretty amazing. I don't expect a Pentax to have that sort of processing power though. MJPEG will be fine. ProRes or similar would be a nice addition. RAW, even better. But not 100% needed. Oh, and of course higher bitrates for h264, however I have the feeling that the bitrate isn't the only problem when it comes to the h264 encoder in the K-3.


Line skipping vs pixel binning. Ideally do as much pixel binning as possible, but do give me the option of selecting how much line skipping I want. In a slow moving scene I want pixel binning. Better low light performance, less to no moire/aliasing. However pixel binning/full sensor readout leads to stronger rolling shutter effects and a heated up sensor. Sometimes I want to be able to move/shake the camera much more, in which case I'd rather have line skipping (faster sensor readout, less rolling shutter, and the movement will cover up jagged edges anyway). Being able to select how much I want to skip would be even cooler.


Use the buttons. The camera has plenty of unused buttons. Let me use them. Apart from what I mentioned in the SR section I want a white balance lock (similar to AE-L), that works in video mode. It should be remembered even when the camera goes to sleep or you turn it off. Ideally I'd be able to go to a video on the SD card that had the white balance locked and get the exact same white balance and perhaps even look settings (?).


Focus peaking. I guess the K-3 doesn't have enough processing power to do video recording and focus peaking. Unless it is basically a picture style that gets applied to the whole image, and that would get recorded if it were activated while recording a video, try to enable it while recording. Yes, perhaps the whole frame won't work, but as much as possible. Maybe it's a square in the center that can have focus peaking. That'd be better than nothing. In any case, focus peaking while recording video would be fine. Perhaps at different levels even, i.e. we can set how sensitive it is at detecting contrast. Sometimes it doesn't have to be that precise, and you're glad if it detects contrast at all, sometimes the whole screen would seem to be in focus, and you need more sensitivity.


Get inspired by Magic Lantern. Or better yet get Magic Lantern developers to work at Pentax. Unlike Canon, Sony and Panasonic, Pentax does not have a professional video arm that needs to be protected. You can thus go really pro in terms of features. Of course that means Pentax needs to have people who really know video, and the demands of videographers. Who's better suited than the guys that make Canon DSLRs awesome video tools? Also, you could try to get a DP as an advisor. If possible a popular one with lots of following, say Philip Bloom. Get him to give input/ideas that you actually try to fulfil, and get him to be then vocal about it.


Video styles meant for grading. Give us a picture style designed for a wide dynamic range, a flat picture that gives us the ability to really push the video. To give it a filmic look etc. Try to match what competitors are doing, so that it's easy to work with 2 brands on set and to get things to match.


4K, RAW, 10 bit, 4:2:2 or better yet 4:4:4, etc. Clearly nice to have. Even if it's only over HDMI (a proper HDMI plug that is hard to damage, if possible).


Audio levels on screen, with a red dot indicating the highest point in the last 10, 20 seconds (think digital vu meters?), and the ability to change the gain (perhaps by pressing a button and then using a dial, like with ISO etc.).


Timecode. So that shooting with multiple cameras becomes easier.


Zebras etc. Self explanatory. Be inspired by what professional cameras do, and give many options.

Imagine what good advertising it would be for Pentax if the next Indie hit was shot on a Pentax DSLR or mirrorless, and the director giving interviews where he raves about what a great tool the camera was, for both the actual video as well as promotional stills. Ok, perhaps that's a bit far fetched. But professional users more and more need to do stills and video, and seeing a pro at a wedding for example shoot Pentax will inspire people to look into the brand, and perhaps buy a camera from Pentax. I've had people who like my photos be interested in buying a Pentax (AFAIK one or two did indeed buy a Pentax in the end, and back then I was not even close to being a pro).
Forum: Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 05-08-2014, 02:17 AM  
K-7 FIRMWARE Version 1.12 KILLED MY CAMERA
Posted By Imageman
Replies: 85
Views: 15,503
Ive said it before, don't update the firmware unless you have a good reason.


Lets say you have a 1 in 1000 chance of it failing, but you upgrade the firmware 5 times in its lifetime. This reduces your odds to 1 in 200 that it will kill your camera.


Compared to the Lottery whose odds are 1 in 20 million, that's almost a dead cert.


Your camera is a second hand item by the time your updating the firmware so it may only be worth around 300 dollars, and it costs 300 dollars to fix if it fails.


I don't see the sense in taking the risk.


If new firmware for your ford pickup was available for you to flash the ecu and it only gave you the ability to see your dashboard in Korean writing, but could render the pickup undriveable if it failed. What if when it failed it would cost you $6,000 to have it fixed.


Would you flash your ecu.


I wont be updating the firmware on my camera, ever. I bought it to take pictures. It works, it takes pictures. When the next firmware update comes out. will it let me take pictures? well it does that already.
Forum: Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 03-09-2014, 06:08 AM  
K-7 FIRMWARE Version 1.12 KILLED MY CAMERA
Posted By RKKS08
Replies: 85
Views: 15,503
@dansamy

To update the firmware means to replace the operating system including settings by a new one from a binary file on the SD card. This is usually done by a program which is copied from the existing firmware ROM to the processor RAM, and started.

From the moment on the flashing starts, everything on the chip is now unusable and just rubbish. The program in the RAM is now the only existing copy, till the flashing is successfully completed and a new version of the flashing program is now stored in the ROM.

If the flashing was not successful, the processor now will not find any executable program code any more at all. Even loading a flash program from a SD card is not possible, as the program code for getting access to the SD card is also gone. The only way to revive the ROM chip would be to put it into an external flash programmer device, which has all the needed routines built in. But to do this the chip would need to get disconnected from the mainboard. This would only be possible without destroying it in the factory of the mainboard manufacturer, and the complete procedure would probably be more expensive than a new mainboard.

For many years, the identical problem existed with mainboards of desktop computers. Since some time the manufacturers have (nearly) solved this problem. My mainboard ROM chip holds a complete copy of the original firmware, together with a flashing program, in a separate area of the chip which is not flashable. If a firmware update fails, there are special procedures to start a process which flashes the copy (usually firmware V 1.00). From then on, you can try again to update.

Obviously Pentax and most competitors were not willing or able to provide more than twice the ROM memory space for a complete firmware copy.

Rooting the Linux system of an Android phone or tablet has nothing to do with it. The OS providers have just scratched the admin ("root") rights for any user, and by this disabled (nearly) all possibilities to re-gain these rights or install new users. As in UNIX-like systems "everything is a file", hackers have found ways to circumnavigate these restrictions, and to modify the affected configuration files (which are plain text files anyway). This is not such a difficult task, as installation of many of the Apps need root rights anyway, so there still exist means to gain admin status; they are just hidden in the program code of installation routines.
This "rooting" just modifies some text files of the existing configuration, text files to which usually only the system itself has write access. Whereas completely replacing the operating system is equivalent to a ROM update, and only possible if the manufacturer has prepared possibilities to do it. Otherwise you would have to remove the chip and put it in an external flash programmer device. This device would have to "know" the chip exactly. If the hardware is a custom one, it may not be possible.
Forum: Pentax K-5 & K-5 II 12-26-2010, 07:47 PM  
K-5 Video and Exposure-table
Posted By falconeye
Replies: 11
Views: 3,494
Happy Xmas :)

I don't like motion compressed videos because they cause extra work upon import in my workflow. YMMV

The videos I just keep w/o plan to use in a movie project, I transcode to MP4 using the Turbo.264 HD hardware stick. I don't trust the hardware capabilities of current cameras to do decent H.264 encoding in HD and realtime. AVCHD is a dirty workaround IMHO (low bitrate).

A still camera doesn't use a downsampling matrix when creating low resolution Jpgs. Pentax being no exception. It just takes the full resolution image and resamples it for the lower size like Photoshop does. If you get jaggies, then your sharpening was too high. You have to lower it for lower rez output (because there is less softness).

Video is a different story though.
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 02-12-2014, 09:49 PM  
K-5 video
Posted By kadajawi
Replies: 64
Views: 8,118
I'm not quite sure what you mean... if you want to you can write in German too, maybe then it becomes clearer.


You want the best balance between aperture, ISO and shutter speed... for that the green button seems to be appropriate. However I've just aimed the camera out of the window, and the green button gives me f5.6. When I put it into P, turn on live view, I get the same exposure, but the camera suggests f10 or f11 at 1/100th and ISO 125. If I put it to f5.6 I get 1/250th and ISO 80. So at the very least the camera went for 1/250th, unless it can go to ISO 25 or so in video mode (which I highly doubt, that's physically not possible AFAIK, at least not without reducing the dynamic range. I aimed it at a bright spot in spot metering (which seems to work in video mode, if I'm not mistaken), it told me f8. Put it into P again, same exposure, at f8 I get 1/500th and ISO 80.


While the green button is better than _nothing_, it isn't exactly predictable, nor does it go for sensible values (unless you're shooting Saving Private Ryan...). Not sure what we can do at this point. We could try to get the proper shutter speed in Hyper P, setting the shutter speed there (and checking the ISO), however that may bump up the ISO.


We could do a more elaborate test, checking the shutter speed by having a timer run on a monitor (that displays a list of ms at different places, and not showing the previous value once it has passed (i.e. it shows only 1, then underneath 2 (but 1 disappears), then underneath 3 (but 2 disappears), ...)), but I don't have such a program (or I don't know of any). Maybe someone wants to program it...? It would also have to have the ability of displaying with different background colors. If we know the shutter speed that was used we can deduct what ISO it used... if it tried to keep the ISO as low as possible or not.
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 12-08-2013, 01:23 PM  
Music video with the Kx & Gh2
Posted By eccentricphotography
Replies: 5
Views: 1,184
Shot this music video for Jamar Rogers with my false color IR Kx, and the Panasonic Gh2
http://www.vevo.com/watch/jamar-rogers/drink-of-you/USTB11300235
Forum: Pentax K-3 & K-3 II 12-08-2013, 07:58 PM  
Jello: K-3 v K-01
Posted By Class A
Replies: 177
Views: 17,956
You cannot use him as an example to give credence to the quality of a tool because by his own account he had been using inadequate equipment (Pentax cameras that cannot focus) for over five years without noticing problems or switching to a better tool. He needed a retoucher to point out to him that his images are flawed. Only recently he switched to Nikon and now gets sharp images.
Forum: Pentax K-3 & K-3 II 11-30-2013, 12:04 PM  
Jello: K-3 v K-01
Posted By osv
Replies: 177
Views: 17,956
here is an interesting link on the effects of motion blur and framerate... keep clicking the preset links in the middle of the page, it'll change backgrounds and such for every click

Compare frames per second: which looks better?
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 08-19-2013, 04:58 AM  
My first video made by Pentax K-5II
Posted By Kuufi
Replies: 16
Views: 3,004
Also one older video from february made with Pentax K-7 using sigma 10-20 and da* 50-135
















You Tube



Forum: Video Recording and Processing 08-19-2013, 02:14 AM  
My first video made by Pentax K-5II
Posted By Kuufi
Replies: 16
Views: 3,004
Hey.

Just wanted to share one of my first K-5 II videos with you guys.
















You Tube




Mainly used both kit lenses (18-55, 50-200).
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 02-12-2013, 06:57 AM  
K-5 video
Posted By LaurenOE
Replies: 64
Views: 8,118
LOL, and I agree with you! The image quality of the K5 is superb, and you can see my videos at

Lauren's Channel - YouTube

In contrast, I'm not having much love at the moment for K-01 or K-30 image quality in their videos. It's .MOV format and I'm not sure it's an improvement. While they both have more "control", the quality of the image doesn't seem to be on par with the K5.
Forum: Pentax K-3 & K-3 II 11-14-2013, 05:58 AM  
Pentax K-3 Video Discussion
Posted By gambadilegno
Replies: 697
Views: 92,977
When you not JUST have the right options in version 1.0 fw, from petnax YOU CAN'T FORGET to see something new about, in next firmwares..
look the firmwares live in k7 , k5... 2-3 firmwares with NOTHING of NOTHING new,,only update for new pentax lens or SD , compatibility...AND STOP!
many more WAS possibile to make on FW k7 !!!! (video options) and with k5, too...BUT PENTAX made nothing....

SO what you hope about Pentax K3 firmware's ?!? new options/setting in video mode??? a big dream..yes...hope, hope..

HDMI output not ok for rec external ...WAS SURE so.. and 4.2.0 8bit ofcourse... we are on 2014...
Forum: Video Recording and Processing 11-13-2013, 04:28 PM  
K-3 Video competitive now ?
Posted By tripodquest
Replies: 55
Views: 6,423
no i agree, we have the freedom to choose now... if the companies fail to provide, then we choose not to buy... more freedom of choice now. though sometimes it almost feels like less, especially if all the products to choose between are essentially the same
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