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Forum: Pentax Full Frame
07-09-2015, 12:49 AM
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I'm not replying again, as I consider it a waste of time at this point, but no...I created an account as I just found this forum and am an avid fan of many manufacturers, including Pentax.
In my one post though Phil was getting snide and insulting for no reason and without provocation, so I simply took the time on a whim to point out facts and ask him to tone it down a notch since my comments didn't need to chastised with insults to my intelligence....honestly...I don't normally post about petty stuff, so part of this is my fault, I let myself get dragged into something adolescent. I'm done.
I don't defend cameras for what it's worth, but I do defend truth, and it's pretty clear that Phil is not spot on in his perceptions and posts about the D800. To me it doesn't matter what camera is being discussed...if there's much error in the posts then it's helpful to forum members and readers to correct it, otherwise bad information pollinates to other minds and beliefs, creating many wastes of time for many people.
Enough said, sorry for any friction sensed...started out just wanting to encourage people toward a great sensor that is likely coming to a Pentax near you in November...nothing to be concerned about whatsoever, and Phil's friend was obviously mistaken to overreact in dumping the camera for "shutter shock" when that clearly isn't an issue the camera suffers from in any negative degree noticeably greater than other equally great or less great cameras. Shutter shock is in all cameras. Just not a big deal whatsoever.
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Forum: Pentax Full Frame
07-07-2015, 10:48 PM
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Phil...again...please relax with your jabs and assumptions.
"You either don't go to the links folks provide, don't spend time to read them, or don't comprehend them..."
Do you even know anything about me? No...and yet you presume I'm just dense or lazy from simply having a different viewpoint than you? Why? I doubt if you talk to people this way in person..so really...be an adult to us in this forum?
I don't care who knows more or who knows less, as our identity isn't based on being a camera hot shot or a better photographer than one another...none of that matters or makes either of us above the other....so let's be civil and helpful toward each other.
Shuttershock is well understood by myself, as I've shot with Hasselblad and their big boxy bodies that provided a big ol flop of the mirror, Bronica, Pentax 645, Pentax 6x7, Pentax 67, Pentax 67 II, Canon EOS (from their first autofocus and onward), Nikon, and blah blah blah...lots and lots of other cameras and lenses, and leaf shutter lenses as well (which of course can alleviate shutter shock for the most part since the shutter is in the lens) in medium format and large format. Shutter shock is ALWAYS a factor to design around...and there's always room for improvement until shuttershock is at zero vibration.
So...with that said..it's no big deal for Thom Hogan to say "Live View now utilizes an electronic first curtain shutter, which minimizes shutter shock". That just means the new D810 minimizes shutter shock even more than the D800...doesn't say anything about the D800 having a plague of problems...if shutter shock is problematic on a D800 it's the exception not the norm....hence my saying that your friend simply needed to get it fixed or get it returned and swapped out....in fact...you've already said the same thing as myself when you admit that the D800 does NOT have a shutter shock problem:
Phil: "It can't be happening on even a majority of the D800, or the uproar would be amazing."
In fact, if you did what you accuse me of not doing...reading the link that was supplied above, you'll see the results from the comparison between the D810 and D800 shutter shock...and what are the results of the test?:
"The The worst shutter speeds for both cameras are around 1/40 second, with the D810 again being slightly better. The difference between the two cameras is greater in this orientation, but in both cases the differences are small; THIS IS NOT a reason to upgrade from a D800."
This test was found at: Mirror slap and shutter shock on the Nikon D810 | The Last Word
So to recap...you're saying the D800 has a shuttershock problem...but then you say most of them actually don't, which again..is actually correct...and why I said your friend simply needed to exchange his D800 but for whatever reason, chose not to. Not a choice I agree with having had the privilege of enjoying the D800e for some time now. They're awesome.
You also are trying to say the D810 is a noticeable improvement over the D800 in the area of shuttershock, and cite Thom Hogan as endorsing your viewpoint when in fact he doesn't....he simply says that the D810 is an improvement, but not how much of an improvement.
Testing for how much of an improvement, in the link you may not have read above, the results show clearly that the improvement is absolutely minimal..and not a reason to upgrade to the D810. So...the D810 can't be a big improvement like you're trying to assert.
Hope this helps keep us all grounded in facts and aware of whose posts have credibility and whose may need to be questioned or researched further.
The only thing I didn't research is the definition of rhetorical...I may have gotten that part wrong. ;)
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Forum: Pentax Full Frame
07-06-2015, 05:17 PM
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Phil...I'm not sure why you feel it's appropriate to be snippy with a stranger just because this is the internet. Your life though...live it as happy or as snippy as you like. I'll won't be snippy back though, I prefer to be kind even when someone isn't kind back. There's just no need to amp up people just over feeling offended or whatnot...the other option to feeling offended is just being nice anyway, from a sincere regard for others.
To anyone reading this though that wonders about shutter bounce...it's not a sensor issue...the issue has existed for all of shutter technology, as I've known about it for decades, and is why various mirrors have different damping...it's just common sense really? But it's not a "36MP" issue...or a "sensor" issue...if anything it's a camera issue, and every camera has to address it.
Personally...never seen it on the D800e...and I've shot a fair share of images with that camera, and many many other cameras before that. If it were a major "issue" then so many people wouldn't have switched from Canon to Nikon for that sensor's resolution and dynamic range. Great great camera, you Pentax peeps have a lot to look forward to once that sensor or a derivation of it is in a Pentax body. Wish I could have one when it's out, as I loved the digital Pentax I had a few years back.
---------- Post added 07-06-15 at 05:22 PM ----------
Uhm....if you read the caption below the picture it says:
"Shutter shock plagued the original Sony a7R, and in the example above, which was taken at 1/100s with a Canon 70-200 F2.8L II IS attached via a Metabones Smart Adapter III, is not only obvious, but also reduces the resolution of the camera well below its lower-resolution peers, since cameras like the 24MP a7 at least offer a way to avoid this issue altogether (electronic first curtain)."
That picture you posted as an example of a D800's shutter shock has nothing to do with a Nikon D800.
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Forum: Pentax Full Frame
06-28-2015, 08:04 PM
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The D800/e bodies do not provide fuzzy pictures....your buddy must have gotten a dud and not bothered to go the normal route of exchanging it within a return period or just having it repaired under warranty. I've shot them extensively and there's no shutter-shock...hope this helps as any incoming Pentax FF using the Sony sensor will have nothing to be concerned about if the sensor is the same or an evolution of that sensor. Exquisite detail and dynamic range...you guys have a lot to look forward to and enjoy once November rolls around. :)
Loco
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