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Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-29-2018, 12:02 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
I agree!



I suppose we've all come across some of these people, if you're not doing it the normal way then you must be doing it wrong and therefore you don't know what you're doing... then when it doesn't go their way its always the gears fault. I've taken pictures of birds with a 10mm fish-eye on APS-C, some of them were in flight too LOL



1. I sure hope so
2. I totally agree
3. Lets link in experienced photographers with Professional photographers
4. Seriously yes, however not always possible, its best however to know what you want out of the gear and how to get that before sinking money into it.



I know this, but its never stopped me



A bonus perhaps, however I see so many people on the forums totally buy into Camera X can't do this or that and never try it for themselves to see what is possible



This statement says it all, using a Pentax camera for action requires work and effort, and within its limitations it can be effectively used in this manor. I'd change the word good to easily though.



Alright so the center point is active for the initial lock but the camera will follow with the other points, its not like they're all individually active. This post was never intended to suggest those who are serious about action photography should buy a K-1II but to suggest that those who already have it or another Pentax can know what is possible with it.



Yes user experience with evidence is more helpful than benchmark tests, still benchmark tests have their place too.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-27-2018, 04:08 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
Thanks for adding this, I rarely have ever missed a shot in AF-S used for situations where AF-C is not necessary, this really should be the experience of most everybody.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-27-2018, 02:17 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
No problem jabobby, The time and effort went into putting the photo streams together and writing the report. Taking the photos was pure joy! I sure hope someone wins a K-1 this month
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-26-2018, 07:07 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
I too know at least a couple other Pentaxians who are into aviation... seems to be in some of our blood.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-26-2018, 06:22 AM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
WOW! Its like I was reading a biography about myself, though perhaps some minor differences, we see things the same way and do things the same way. You've added great advice to this thread with your references to some techniques, Its appreciated.

---------- Post added 06-26-18 at 09:26 AM ----------





I believe it would be a great celebration, I fear Pentax users all over the internet will be annoying all other brands users by shoving the news in the faces of all those who previously bashed Pentax for weaker AF. I for one would buy it, but then I'd use it and be happy with it, I'd show off its abilities to other Pentaxians but not other brands users as that is not my style.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-25-2018, 08:04 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
Thats what I've heard, maybe one day I'll try it again.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-25-2018, 07:06 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
I personally never got used to the rear button, its just not natural for me.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-25-2018, 05:37 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
I too have an FA 135mm F2.8 (for sale) I tried it at the dog park in the winter, its supposed to focus fast and maybe its faster than many lenses but I found it seriously couldn't keep up, maybe my Sigma 100-300mm F4.0 EX DG is just in another league!
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-25-2018, 02:52 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
And yet its still one of the best lenses I've ever used for action... I think you statement is far too generic. However its true they don't handle subtle adjustments well, they can handle quick adjustments.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-25-2018, 11:53 AM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
Maybe you'll have to invest in the DFA*70-200mm F2.8 :) or the 55-300 PLM



Yes it seems to have, at least its keeping the thread alive for others who may have not seen it yet.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 07:08 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
If you participate on these forums anywhere and forum posts reach 40000 this month then you could win a K-1

---------- Post added 06-24-18 at 10:13 PM ----------



Most definitely! LOL
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 05:29 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
I doubt many will complain about that scientific test! Note to DPR, hire some models for your bike AF tests LOL
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 05:05 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
The Sigma 100-300mm F4.0 is an F4.0 lens and unless shot stopped down which isn't really necessary for best image quality you can happily shoot it at F4.0

The 55-300 PLM is an F4.5-6.3 lens, this is 1.3 stops slower at 300mm and therefore has 1.3 stops more DOF (thus more forgiving if the DOF doesn't fall precisely where you wanted the center of focus to be)

Yeah I didn't use the 100-300 at 300 the whole time, but it is a faster aperture lens at all focal lengths by comparison and much bigger because of that.

So the shallower the DOF the more precise the AF has to be and the easier it is to spot focus errors.

---------- Post added 06-24-18 at 08:06 PM ----------





I hope someone gets one too!

---------- Post added 06-24-18 at 08:08 PM ----------



AF tracking is AF tracking regardless of the camera, either it does it well or not as well as could be.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 12:55 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
Yes the revised version naming names may not have been the nicest thing to do, I could have just said someone complained and probably should have

---------- Post added 06-24-18 at 03:55 PM ----------



Much appreciated BigMackCam
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 12:53 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
One would expect AF-S and AF-C to acquire focus at the same speed however AF-S stops and seems sure of itself where AF-C tries to predict and and doesn't always get it right when the shutter fires. To know for certain I suppose one should devise a test just checking the first image of a burst to see how often each setting gets it accurate on the first shot. That said if the subject isn't moving AF-C may (lets say drift) in the expectation of movement and therefore fail to stay on focus for every shot in a burst much like SR may drift while on a tripod as its expecting movement. Also in AF-S one can either just hold the shutter full down getting the shot as soon as the AF locks on whereas the style of shooting for AF-C more often then not is to track a bit before pressing the shutter full down which can in lead to a miss tracking by the time of the first shot. Sorry I don't have a concise answer for you.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 12:45 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
The slower SDM and HSM (some are fast mind you) have a much better ability to follow a subjects movements so long as the subject isn't super speeding in your direction, the screw drive lenses for the most part but certainly not all are quick to move from point A to point B but don't handle small changes very well... in both cases pick your poison. both will (should) benefit from any AF improvements!
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 10:45 AM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
Some consider the Sigma 100-300mm F4.0 to be big, it has 82mm threads is nearly 25cm long and weighs just over 1.4kg... I don't consider it to be big but I can see how others might.

I suppose you could PM me with more clarification as to your desired results and needs for a replacement lens and I can try to point you in what I think is the right direction.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 10:32 AM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
I'm glad you appreciated the report and totally understand its about managing expectations (showing real world results).

Yes some lenses may be better and some lenses will be worse. My Sigma 100-300mm F4.0 EX DG is probably one of my best sports lenses, Had it for over 10 years and don't intend to sell it any time soon its that good. I once compared my Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 ED Pre-DG (mechanically the same era as my Sigma 100-300, optically with no DG coating) with a Tamron 70-200mm F2.8, I was surprised the Sigma was much faster to focus end to end (test done side by side) so you can't just use age as a factor. in fact some of the Pentax F-series lenses are extremely quick both end to end and for locking on and they're from the lat 80's early 90's. Does the 28-105 work better because its got more DOF? maybe it also had less aberrations, it could be moving lighter elements, have a better focus motor or just simply be geared differently, there are too many variables. I suspect if you find something that works, stick with it until you find something that works better.

Fast screw drive lenses are usually great and quick to lock on to a subject but they can't follow fine subject movements as well, whereas slower SDM lenses may not be so quick to get to the subject but once on they seem to have a better time following fine subject movements. Its one of those pick your poisons.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 10:11 AM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
I just did, I didn't see the change materialize... will check again

EDIT: Seems the title as it appears in the forum listing hasn't changed or hasn't changed yet but it appears changed once clicked on and you're in the thread, if people miss that I've put an explanation at the beginning of the report... You should be a lot more happy now!
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 09:59 AM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
So you pick apart the whole test as nonsense because you took the title as being inclusive instead of paying attention to the content. I could have used a different title but its your own fault for judging a book by its cover!

Can I actually edit and change the title? Never tried that with a post, I could put the "-C" in since you're so overly sensitive to that specification. You doubt that there are very few others that do more than 5% of their shooting with AF-C, this just means you've confined yourself to a small box and think most others are just like you. Those who are fooled are those who didn't bother to read past the title, the shame is on them, not me!

---------- Post added 06-24-18 at 01:06 PM ----------

Title is changed to reflect the report is about AF-C only... I could say more about the insinuation that required this change but I'm sure you all can read it within some of the posts that followed the report.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 09:34 AM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
First off I think you are taking this far too seriously and need to calm down, you've painted me and my report into something it most certainly wasn't intended for. Perhaps some on these forums don't know me as well as on DPR where I post a lot more regularly, I do find it tough to follow multiple forums, just not enough time in the day really.



Just how many reviews rate Pentax poorly due to tracking ability? So what is my report showing, a real world situation with accurate honest results in the realm of AF tracking. As for the bicycle test that was in direct response to DPRs poor results in the same format of test. I'm reporting for those of us who use tracking and are maybe discouraged by the fact that other brands do better and Pentax is being bashed for it. I am most certainly not bashing Pentax as you suggest below, you've put far too much emphasis into one word (sarcasm) of the title of the post and totally disregard the text of the post.



Good for you, maybe its the camera, maybe its the camera and the lens, maybe its your skill level, maybe you have faster reflexes and they had slower reflexes. I don't deny that Pentax "CAN" acquire focus lock faster with "SOME" lenses, ever try your style with the 77Ltd or DA*50-135 or DA*55? You may be rather disappointed in their focus speed.



Put a different lens on, get a different result! Not all lenses acquire focus quickly and some are far faster than others like many of the SMC-F-series lenses.



Yes it is the only important one when the test is for tracking specifically, Had I wanted to see what the results would be compared with not tracking I'd have done a sequence or series of sequences with your method. Given that I didn't then that was not in purview of my intended test and following report



Given that the whole test and report was formulated around AF tracking then any reference to AF in the title or report is referring to AF tracking... Did I ever say Pentax AF (not related to tracking!!!) is inferior???? Or did you just take it that way reading too much into the report with your own bias?



There you go again, blaming the title and ignoring the content. I do apologize to those who didn't understand that the reference to "Ugly" was sarcasm and a play on words as the subject matter for the test is totally cute, perhaps I should have put a smiley face beside the word "ugly". The flip side is the ugly also refers to not just showing the successful results but the bad results as well.



That Pentax isn't as good at tracking rarely needs proving, what it needs is clarification. Far too often there are anecdotal points made that system x is better than Pentax for AF tracking, but what does better mean and what does Pentax being worse mean... its super subjective and rarely ever does anyone provide a clear example showing not only the good but the bad too. My reports aren't meant to Pentax bash but to clarify the truth of the matter, to show what the system is capable of rather than just saying the system isn't as good as the competition which is pretty vague.



I too get tired of this, It doesn't matter if the camera is designed as a field camera, its the camera I chose and I'll shoot whatever the heck I choose to shoot with it no matter what people think its limitations are... I even have shot sequences of swallows in flight with the K-1 original which is seriously tough and absolutely needs AF-C and the skill to follow the bird at telephoto focal lengths. I've shot red bull air races with a manual focus mirror lens (yes with CIF assist), I shoot at least 50% of my hockey photos with a manual focus lens, I shoot airshows, Aussie rules football, figure 8 races, dirt bike racing, birding, wildlife and a whole host of other things that Pentax isn't supposed to be good at as some would have us believe. Pentax is as good as the user behind it where skill is necessary, however it could be better where other camera succeed in offloading some skill in the form of AF tracking.



I don't shoot any bike racing, its not my cup of tea. I absolutely don't accept any fault in using the camera for more than what other random people think its only good for. I also don't appreciate the idea that one will put the camera in such a box. I will constantly push the bounds of what others have been brainwashed into thinking the camera is capable of because with the right skill and knowing the system just about any subject matter can be covered. Maybe some not as well or consistent as with other systems but that shouldn't stop someone who wants to use their chosen gear in situations that are tough for their chosen gear. Pentax may only be the wrong gear for the job if the desired is to be a payed professional who has the demand of plenty of consistent results. I am a hobbyist I don't have the demand of a payed professional, I don't need nor want to buy another brands camera system. This doesn't mean I don't desire improvement in the Pentax system but in spite of where Pentax is lacking I'll still use it to show and prove the naysayers wrong.



You are seriously over defending Pentax, so much so you misinterpreted my report as anti-Pentax when in reality I'm super pro-Pentax and my report was to show what Pentax is capable of in the real world in spite of its weaknesses!



Again, you are far far too focused on one word of the title and seem to be ignoring the content... Its amazing for me to be called a Pentax basher, those who know me, my history and my experience would know I'm a fierce Pentax supporter who will still post honest results and reports about areas Pentax could see improvement.

Please step back, re-examine what I wrote from a completely different bias than the one you've developed through misunderstanding the reason of the report. You'll see I'm pro Pentax, you'll see I'm showing honest results of what Pentax is capable of so that others can see and not have to rely on all those lies and half truths about Pentax not being up to the job. Why do I shoot tough subjects that require tracking and skill, because its a challenge, because I can and to show the rest of the community that it can be done with Pentax!!! It has nothing to do with Pentax can't its all about Pentax CAN!!!!! But still with lots of room for improvement!

---------- Post added 06-24-18 at 12:42 PM ----------



Image-resource did a test, within the constraints of the test they came to the conclusion that recent Pentax cameras have fast target acquisition time with the lenses and camera used, and those acquisition times are faster than what they compared with in other brands. If someone can find the article and post a link please do so to allow others to better understand how the results were achieved. I suspect one would find the speed of focus acquisition is highly depended on the subject, whether its moving, whether the user is holding the camera steady (think long telephoto) which camera and what lens is being used. So unless the test is exhaustive in testing comparable setups one can only come to the conclusion that Pentax AF acquisition time is faster than other brands for a given setup and test target, YMMV with you're using something different than what was tested.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-24-2018, 05:39 AM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
Yeah I didn't like figuring this result, I'd heard about it but never thought it was right as my screw drive lenses are good and fast, but my friend who is likely more observant noticed the difference when we swapped lenses.

---------- Post added 06-24-18 at 08:41 AM ----------



I'd suggest it would be a great deal tougher, not just for the AF but the ISOs would have to climb which could further reduce the image quality making it harder to judge the photos.

---------- Post added 06-24-18 at 08:56 AM ----------



Very interesting information, I appreciate that you can offer your experience from Canons rather high end equipment. Now I think you meant K1m2 instead of F1m2. As to your first point, there is plenty opinionated evidence that suggests both Canon and Nikon have faster AF (maybe) but certainly better tracking. You suggest it isn't as different as others would have us believe, definitely something to think about. Are you familiar with the bicycle test by DPReview? When the K-1 original came out I disagreed with the DPR findings and finally performed a nearly identical test on the K-1 original with dozens of lenses, I also threw in a Canon 5D original and Canon 70-200mm F4 L (not IS). The Canons ability to track a subject with center point was matched by some of the Pentax setups, however its ability to maintain focus of the cyclist when it moved around the frame totally out performed the K-1 original regardless of what lens I had on it. The details can be found here Extensive K-1 AF-C Bike Test Results: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review now the MkII is supposed to have better AF and I believe it does, but I still believe its not up to par with the competition by any stretch yet.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-23-2018, 07:45 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
Taking 1000 photos of a cyclist is certainly not cherry picking. just because a camera and lens combo can acquire focus quickly doesn't mean it can follow the subject with any kind of consistency. How quick are you on the shutter button? would you be able to get even 50% of the photos of the dog running towards you in AF-S? I'm not trying to suggest you're not capable and your style doesn't have merit, just pointing out there are reasons for certain features and tests of those features. I still use CIF with a manual focus lens for some sports photos, that doesn't mean the AF tracking shouldn't improved.

Last year I was at a figure 8 race with a friend, I has the Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX Pre-DG he had the Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 Macro II IIRC (or some similar HSM or SDM lens anyways). My screw drive Sigma could snap into focus with blazing speed compared with his, however his was slower but could follow subtle movement better than mine. My lens would be ideal for your shooting style but a slower focusing lens though able to track smoother may not do well with your style.
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-23-2018, 06:43 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
Hey normhead, since we seem to be digging up old posts I figured this one from the early days of the original K-1 may show a clear indication of how the other guys are actually better than Pentax. Check the bottom of the charts for the result from an old Canon 5D and Canon 70-200mm F4.0 L (not IS).

Extensive K-1 AF-C Bike Test Results: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
Forum: Pentax K-1 & K-1 II 06-23-2018, 06:15 PM  
The Ugly Truth About Pentax AF-C (Cuteness included)
Posted By MightyMike
Replies: 123
Views: 9,226
I remember doing something on that but totally forgot i had any data. That was some 9 years ago with many generation old tech... however the principal which I never disputed remains the same there is a correlation.

For comparison my photos were taken in the realm of EV12-13, however since I lifted the exposure a little in post lets say the realm of EV11-13.
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