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Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-26-2019, 10:23 AM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
MMVIII this my point. The GRIII is already designed. There is nothing that can be done about it. The Pentax community is waiting on other camera bodies we know nothing about yet. Let's hope with some pressure from the community Ricoh/Pentax will include Pro performance like UHS-II in the next APS-C and Full Frame DSLR"s.

The GRIII delivers excellent files which is really the final word.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-26-2019, 10:01 AM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
phoebus are you saying that the FlashMemorySummit PDF is wrong because it does not support your conclusion.

It actually lays out the points I have been saying why moving to UHS-II is so beneficial. Under the "UHS-II is Saving Energy" section points to the Full & Half Duplex modes as to how the energy is saved.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-26-2019, 09:33 AM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
phoebes thanks for proving my point.

The FlashMemorySummit PDF linked by BrianR clearly states that there is improved battery performance moving from UHS-I to UHS-II. There are four pages titled "UHS-II is Saving you Energy" in the FlashMemorySummit PDF explaining just how the power savings is accomplished.

Here is the "UHS-II is Saving you Energy - Conclusion" page:



As per the Flash Memory Summit of 2015 moving from UHS-I to UHS-II will improve battery performance.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-25-2019, 04:40 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
Where am I arguing? All I have said is these cameras need UHS-II to handle the larger sensors and more sophisticated processing. Which they do. Everyone else is arguing no we don't need UHS-II that the slow operation of the cameras due to UHS-I is just fine. Just don't fill the buffer. Wait 20 seconds between exposures etc.

Larrymc how come you are not asking why everyone is arguing against UHS-II? Right isn't that what is really happening. I am only stating what needs to be done to improve performance but everyone here at PentaxForum's seems to be okay with mediocre.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-25-2019, 11:06 AM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
I have a K-1 so I know what your experience is you are waiting on the UHS-I slot so you have to shoot in measured ways not to step on the slow response of the camera.

I will make a predication that the GRIII with UHS-I will handle pretty much like the GR and GRII which are just adequate. Albeit the GRIII does have a major lose in battery performance.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-25-2019, 10:32 AM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
This is a GRIII thread and I have said several times the GRIII is a home run. If the GRIII had UHS-II it would be a grand slam.

I am just responding to your statements about the K-1. And you are mistaken you wait more than a second for the K-1 to write every RAW file to the SD card. The more files you put in the buffer the longer each file takes.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-25-2019, 09:51 AM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
biz-engineer the only thing holding back the K-1 from being a "Sports" camera is the UHS-I bus. The slow SD bus holds back the K-1 from being taken serious by pros even though the K-1 delivers the best image quality and with the K-1MKII it is by a long margin. I can not imagine trying to shoot a wedding with a camera that is taking 15 seconds to flush out the buffer. Am I fixated on the slow SD bus? If that is what your perception is feel free to dismiss what I say. It is not my experience the waiting for SD card writing(entirely due to UHS-I) with the K-1 it is every K-1 user.

We have all waited really since 2013 for the next generation GR. The GRII was an update. So in 2019 with the GRIII I would expect Ricoh would want to release a camera that will perform to 2019 standards instead of UHS-I which is 2010 standards.

So biz-engineer we can put you down as being happy and okay with waiting 15 seconds for the full buffer to clear with UHS-I. You prefer that instead of less than 5 seconds. Which by simply moving to UHS-II is delivered and solves all the lag and slow operation of the camera.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 04:37 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
This is the problem with the Pentax community is satisfied with the next model having SDR-104 UHS-I. Clearly you are not interested in improving performance being satisfied with UHS-I SDR-104 even though this is the big complaint you have with the K-1.

What do you think the likely hood the GRIII will be using UHS-I SDR-104. It is the next camera. I think there is zero chance.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 01:55 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
I know it isn't RAM. The system is always communicating back and forth to Storage. There is data on the storage the system accesses. Part of that internal storage can now be for system use instead of the SD card. UHS-I only operates in one direction at a time which is a bottleneck. The internal storage can bypass this latency.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 01:42 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
Kunzite so you are saying that UHS-II doesn't greatly improve the speed at which the files are written to the SD card? That some how it is something else that improved this for the D850 other than the improved storage bus? So why did Nikon move to the faster storage bus if it is not really needed? Of course you know that answer because you can not cram 50lbs of potato's into a 35lb sack. The only way to improve performance was to move to UHS-II. The XDQ slot is even faster.

Like I said Kunzite I have the K-1 so I know from experience the limitations of UHS-I. The biggest obstacle to using the K-1 is waiting on the SD bus to catch up. Waking from sleep you can here the system communicating: Press shutter release:Hello System time to wake up: System to storage unit time to wake up. Ok system storage unit is awake now. System okay Ready to go. It's glacial.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 12:56 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
These are not assumptions Kunzite. I can tell you from my own experience with the K-1 and UHS-I. For Street Photography waiting for 15 seconds for the K-1 to clear the buffer due to the UHS-I bus is glacial. Plus the numbers are out there on the D800 and D850 showing how much better the D850 performs due to the faster SD bus.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 12:47 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
RonHendriks1966 the inclusion of the internal memory has nothing to do with the end user. The real use of the internal memory is to give more responsiveness to the system as a whole due to the limitation of UHS-I. Certainly the end user can store images to it but the real function is for use by the camera. I would imagine people will not go strolling without a memory card inserted. The end user would more likely use the 2GB storage if they happened to forget to empty a full SD card before taking the walk.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 12:38 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
You can quantify the numbers. Take for example the GRIII's 200 image rating. If each file takes 1 seconds to get through the UHS-I bus that is 200 seconds total time they are held in the buffer which is over 3 minutes time. If UHS-II reduced this by 3 times they are in the buffer for only 1 minute. This is exactly what is happening with the D850 and most likely were the improved battery performance is coming from.

The more images you put in the buffer the longer they stay there. So if you shoot 5 images in succession. The 5th image is actually sitting in the buffer for 5 seconds which eats even more power. A full buffer has files waiting 12 13 14 15 seconds waiting to clear the buffer drawing power using UHS-I.

Ricoh/Pentax has always been this many generations behind with the SD bus. With the GRIII Ricoh added the 2GB internal memory to get around the limitations of UHS-I.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 12:15 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
You can turn off shake reduction. The way I shoot IBIS doesn't help so I won't be turning on the IBIS on the GRIII. With my GRII I don't use the screen either so this will not change with the GRIII for me. It will be interesting to see what the battery performance ends up being in the end. I think with the GRII I get 3 maybe 4 hours use out of a full battery.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 12:05 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
BrianR I don't think anyone including Nikon attributed the improved battery performance to anything. Nikon just highlighted the fact without any explanation. I think it is pretty obvious. UHS-II clearly improved the responsiveness of the D850 by reducing the amount of time the photographer is waiting for the camera to write to storage by a factor of 3. The added benefit to this improved battery performance.

It should be a no brainer upgrade. UHS-II brings many benefits including bi directional communication between the Camera and the Card. The camera can access data on the card at the same time it is writing files to it. UHS-I only communicates one direction at a time. There would have been no need to include the 2GB of internal memory.

Cost is probably a factor. The SD Standards status is already at UHS-III so the GRIII is 2 generations behind the current. The final destination is SD Express which moves to PCIe based.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 11:37 AM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
No the GRII and GRIII do not have the same SD bus. The GRII uses the slower High Speed SD standard bus.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 11:04 AM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
I see you are cracking RonHendriks1966 you admit there are advantages moving to UHS-II.

So which camp are you in RonHendriks1966 would you rather have the full buffer clear in 15 seconds or less than 5 seconds?

Your remarks about the built in flash as the reason between the increase in images for the D850 over the D800 doesn't explain the difference between the GRII and the GRIII. The GRIII doesn't have a built in flash yet looses a third of the battery capacity.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 09:12 AM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
The buffer is the RAM component no different than RAM in any computer system. When you start crunching data into RAM what happens to the RAM it heats up because it is drawing more power. It's no different in a camera.

There is a precedent for what I am pointing out when Nikon released the D500 and D850. Both those cameras had around a 25% increase in images per battery charge over the previous model even though there was no change to the battery. They moved to UHS-II which drastically cut down on clearing the buffer which improved the performance. The D800 was in the 15 second range to clear the full buffer. The D850 takes around 4 seconds. The savings in energy gave around a 25% increase in the total amount of images per battery charge.

Again that is another question I asked several times gone unanswered who here would rather have the buffer clear in 15 seconds or would you rather have the buffer clear in less than 5 seconds? Everyone here is satisfied with the buffer clearing in 15 seconds?
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-24-2019, 08:43 AM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
I didn't assert anything remotely to what you stated here. What I did say is the longer a file is held in the buffer the more energy is being used to hold it there.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-23-2019, 07:30 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
The power is consumed by the files being held in the buffer longer due to the slower bus speed. The longer the files are held in the buffer the more power they consume.

The SD card bus is not the only limitation but it is the slowest and weakest link. The performance of the entire system relies on how fast the files can be written to storage. I have asked this before would everyone rather have the "buffer" clear in under 5 seconds with a UHS-II bus or 15 seconds with a UHS-I bus. Everyone argues we need a bigger "buffer" when all a bigger "buffer" will do is drain the battery that much faster.

Don't forget along with the IBIS and additional processor they increased the battery capacity. And IBIS can be turned off. I can not imagine not using IBIS would give back 100 images.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-23-2019, 05:36 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
Who is asking for the GR to become a film production rig?
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-23-2019, 03:16 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
Actually the 28mm field of view has historically been used by many of the greatest filmmakers so the GR has a unique field of view for cinematography use.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-23-2019, 02:10 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
RonHendriks1966 I didn't ignore the heat issue. I don't think it is the problem you make it out to be as an obstacle for 4k video in the GRIII. The GRIII is doing Full HD video despite the heat issues associated with video. The GRIII is only doing Full HD because that is all UHS-I can deliver. The GRII delivers Full HD except at 60fps because of the slow High Speed SD bus interface that only delivers 25MB/sec.

Looking back when the GRII was going to be announced in 2015 what I was hoping to see is what the GRIII has except IBIS. Waiting to see how the GRII was going to be different than the GR I was hoping to see the 24mp sensor and 14-bit RAW. So at the very least they have come that far.

Like I said I think the GRIII is a home run. If it had UHS-II it would be a grand slam.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-23-2019, 01:26 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
reh321 you don't have to take everything personal.

I am pretty sure one thing people have said about the KP they wish were better is battery performance. It may not be the case for you but I have read this opinion from KP users on PF.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 02-23-2019, 12:22 PM  
RICOH GRIII Officially Announced
Posted By Rico
Replies: 329
Views: 33,470
Well that is an improvement. The smaller sensor in the WG-6 makes it all possible.

---------- Post added 02-23-19 at 02:23 PM ----------



Never said that monochrome.

---------- Post added 02-23-19 at 02:47 PM ----------



These cameras can not deliver 4k because they only have UHS-I. It doesn't matter how fast the sensor the processor or the buffer size are especially since Ricoh/Pentax is using a UHS-I standard that only delivers ~35MB/s speeds which is not enough to keep up with a 4k data stream from the large sensors. 4k data stream needs at least 100MB/s.

Each K-1 RAW file takes over a second to write to the SD card. Pixel-Shift images each take 5 seconds to push through the UHS-I bus to write to the card. The Pixel-Shift capture is pretty much instantaneous from once the images are taken and the processing puts them together sending the file to the buffer. It is the 125mb file that takes 5 seconds to get out of the buffer through the slow UHS-I bus to the SD card. How much more effective would Pixel-Shift be if the time between shots went from 5 seconds to 1 second which UHS-II would deliver?

The major draw back to these slow write times because of UHS-I is battery drain. We are seeing that with the GRIII drop in battery performance even though they increased the size of the battery. The KP is a victim of this as well.
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