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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 01-04-2018, 12:46 PM

How to solve K1/FF wide->short normal need (repeat question?)
Posted By Igor123

Replies: 43
Views: 4,093

Thanks for the tips, but I'm not sure:

I never liked fisheyes, and even if I did the sharpness reviews don't seem to be that great?

The FA prime would maybe be better FL than the 35 plastic (and hopefully as good IQ), but won't solve the "whole" thing (that I want a great zoom in the 24-35 range to avoid swapping lenses and missing shots due to that, and preferably to 50 or even 70mm). If I happen to find the 28 at a good price it would be interesting to try it as an alternative/improvement of the current "role" the 35 plays for me now.

The FA* might be in that price range, but that price range was for a lens with the DFA IQ/properties...even if the FA has a bit better IQ, WR is worth about $100 to me, and that 24-28 part means a lot of shots/lens swaps so another $150 off in my book, so then I'm not sure my would-by-price is still in the price range of the FA* =).

I know, I'm being difficult, but I would pay even more than the current DFA price, IF it was a bit better and achieved *-level IQ (mainly thinking edges/corners), and perhaps some more metal instead of plastic =), since that would mean I could forget about that FL range altogether for a good number of years at least...but the options available today are all a compromise in some way, hence this thread. But as I said before, I probably wouldn't think about it that much if actually getting and using it, but in my mind it wouldn't be the endgame lens I want, and then the current price is a bit high for me for a non-endgame lens.

But don't get me wrong, I always appreciate good suggestions!

Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 01-03-2018, 03:06 PM

How to solve K1/FF wide->short normal need (repeat question?)
Posted By Igor123

Replies: 43
Views: 4,093

Hi again everyone, in case anyone wondered what I decided to do, it's not much at the moment, I'm not "sold" on anything yet...

What has happened is that I got a used plastic fantastic 35 and tried it out for christmas, and while not the zoom I want and also a bit to narrow FOV, it's has more of what I want in IQ =) (I know, not fair comparing primes to zooms, but we're talking less than 1/10th the price of a new 24-70 DFA).

I also got a used Tamron 28-75, a copy which seems a tad decentered, but even with the "good" edge and corner I'm doubtful after just doing some test shots (possibly can be better if a good copy, will give it a shot later on for real pictures and not just test shots).

And after re-reading the DFA24-70 PF article/review (with the political-wording-and-pro-pentax-sentiment-filter-glasses on), I still lean towards that I could be content with it for IQ, but not IQ+price factored in at the moment, more like $6-700 or so would satisfy that.

Maybe I was spoiled by the "prime-ness" of my DA 12-24, but for now I'm thinking I'll "bite the bullet" and go prime and perhaps cropping when needed..using the DA as a 24 prime or copped when that FOV is needed, plastic fantastic 35 (most of the time for "normal" indoors I guess), and F1.7 50 for when a bit more space is available and more portrait-ish cases (and above that tamron 70-200 or F*4.5 300). I'll miss some shots no doubt due having the wrong focal length mounted, but on the other hand I'll get more pics that will put a smile on my face when pp:ing, and being a hobby, that's maybe more important =).

So that's probably it for now, maybe try FA 24-50 or 24-90 if I see a good deal, but other than that wait/dream about a 24-70-ish star lens or if some third party decide the K1 made it worth releaseing something new/better/price-vs-IQ-better for pentax (not getting my hopes up too much on that).

---------- Post added 01-03-2018 at 11:08 PM ----------

I believe so! But only the 24-30-part would be of great interest to me, and not "fix" my want to not to have to change lens between 24 and 35/50 (or even 70 if possible), and when being so expensive, it's not realistically that interesting for now I'm afraid. (Also, the PF article says purple fringing is non-existent on the 15-30, but isn't that what is seen (even on this downsized version) on the left rock in that image? At f9!?)

Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 12-20-2017, 09:54 AM

How to solve K1/FF wide->short normal need (repeat question?)
Posted By Igor123

Replies: 43
Views: 4,093

If I can get that for a reasonable price yes (say $1300), but I'm not sure I feel the 24-70 is the one and done just quite...and it seems pentax agrees, it's not a *...but I'll probably be happy enough a long time, maybe 10 years until the * is released =). Well, guess I need to start preparing to sell a bunch of lenses to fund it...(not a bad thing really, feels liberating to be down to just a handful great lenses, and also saving time when deciding what to bring as well). In 10 years when the kids are grown (enough) I can maybe start looking at primes again!

Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 12-20-2017, 07:43 AM

How to solve K1/FF wide->short normal need (repeat question?)
Posted By Igor123

Replies: 43
Views: 4,093

Why the K-1 instead of aps-c? My reason for going FF were a little bit of almost everything:
- AF: The K-5 AF was ok for non-moving objects in ok light, and now having small kids, taking pics of them was a pain, ever so slight movement towards or away from the camera and the AF wouldn't cope, especially if a bit dark in the room. I know the K-1 may not be in canikon predictive league, but som far I'm satisfied, a big improvement. Newer apsc bodies probablu have better af too but more on that below.
- Alternatives and IQ: I tried to wait until the K-3II replacement was released to see what's new, but it never came, so there was the KP or the K-3II in apcs-c. Both certainly being great cameras, but I was afraid it wasn't really much of an upgrade except for af, and some resolution at the price of pixel size, resulting in about the same overall snr/DR. While resolution is nice in good light, the k5 had base iso 80 with it's deeper bin in the sensor resulting in better DR in those cases over the newer cameras, and no slouch in high iso, even if the KP seems to be a next gen there.
- Glass: All glass I have except for the DA12-24 is FF, so I would make better use of it. Perhaps I've been anticipating an FF upgrade for years, or just enjoyed the improved edges on apcs of using ff glass, but thats how it is.

So I felt the K1 was the only worthwhile upgrade available, and it also kept the pixel pitch of the K5 (meaning the glass I have would not look softer per pixel except for edges/vignetting effects), it had the better focus, slightly better per-pixel dr and snr etc, so together with the doubling of sensor size, would perhaps give me at least "1.5 stops of better IQ" (and the AA filter removal, but all newer cameras had that). Then there are some fun/minor things like astotracer, pixel shift, wifi, gps, the third wheel and some more that made me feel it was worth the price difference.

My plan was that the DA could be used as a 24mm prime, but the edges aren't there...and then I want to be able to take images of both an entire room and individuals without switching lenses (no time for that with kids...), and 24 on ff only covers the room part (to be fair, it barely did the individual part on apcs either), so using it as a prime is a lot less convenient, even if I accept the edges.

---------- Post added 12-20-2017 at 03:44 PM ----------

With that out of the way, now to the image comparisons you suggested: I looked at the images you suggested, and the tamron/pentax does indeed look good (about the Nikon comparison; I wonder if they didn't accidently switch the f2.8 and 8 test chaarts at 24mm, I take it the softer is at 2.8), and they also had the sigma HSM showing a vignetted blotch in the corner so that is out of the game (unless as a tempirary solution if at a great price).

But in short, yes, this is something I can live with and not think about too much. What remains now against it is the thing about dfa 28-105 being edge-to-edge sharper at f4 while this cost 67% of the dfa*70-200 while not being quite there (evidently it's possible to improve)....I guess im nitpicking borderline being unreasonable =), but say for the same price as the tamron goes for other brands it would be a deal for me.

So in short, I guess now I'll be looking for that kind of comparisons with she sigma 20-40 and F/FA 20-35 or 24-50, and then either get the 24-70 and silently think that I paid a little bit too much or get one of the others cheaper and silently think that I should have gone with the 24-70...

Either way, the holidays are next and I won't have much time to think about this or research and I'll get to try the K1 some more indoors with what I have (and a da 35 f2.4 that I found at a good price in the mail now) and probably decide next year what to do. Thanks for the pointer to imaging resource...too bad they didn't have more penax lenses lab tests there (I saw some but somewhat weird selection I think)...

Thanks a lot for now everyone!

Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 12-19-2017, 03:11 PM

How to solve K1/FF wide->short normal need (repeat question?)
Posted By Igor123

Replies: 43
Views: 4,093

Ok thanks, seems to be going to the shortlist then! (about the sample pics on the review page they're mostly in good conditions/downsampled/and or stopped down, so hard to tell lenses apart in quality from that.. but I'll try to google around for more)

---------- Post added 12-19-2017 at 11:13 PM ----------

Ok, great to hear! Then it seems to be an upgrade and if getting rid of the glow (at least in my copy) it'll probably be alright for the most part. Now let's see about what the offers look like...

Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 12-19-2017, 01:46 PM

How to solve K1/FF wide->short normal need (repeat question?)
Posted By Igor123

Replies: 43
Views: 4,093

Great, another harvest of nice suggestions =)!

Looks good (but then again most lenses do at 7 and image reduced in size..), but for this I must have AF...won't have time to focus manually many time, but thanks for the suggestion!

Ah great, then I'll add it to the "candidates" list to research more! A quick look at the reviews indicates that many feel it's not quite there at 2.8, but if can still be an ok solution for the time being if the price is right. (but seems it can be a bit pricey..). The sigma 20-40 2.8 mentioned above maybe has a chance of being better if speculating due to less of a zoom, but then again the HSM may be a generation newer...will look into them.

Yes, agree, I've seen those and they look promising, but I'm afraid for this I'll need the zoom to avoid switching lenses, and also AF...all for not having time (to switch or focus manually).

Interesting...I more or less started with the summary-thread about DA lenses on FF by falc (https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/54-pentax-lens-articles/31629-da-lenses-...ts-thread.html) and it wasn't there so I assumed it was hopelessly DA-sized...but it seems not! But after looking into the details, it seems to be a bit too much limitations (24-40 ok wide open, but vignette here and there if stopping down etc...) so, I think there are other better suggestions for now....if only they could make it FF that would be what I need.

I was hoping for end-game quality so I don't have to buy another lens in this range ever again =), but if I find one at a nice price I'm sure I could work for some time...but not my ideal solution for this, rather have a 20-40 that is faster and better IQ.

---------- Post added 12-19-2017 at 10:05 PM ----------

A quick recap and clarification in case I get more suggestions:

Requirements:
- Focal range: at least 24-35 but preferably 20-40 or even 70 if possible
- Aperture: No smaller than F4, but 2.8 would be nice
- AF is required
- WR: Nice but not required
- Size: I'll say it doesn't matter (and perhaps complain after a few years..)
- Price: Could go as far as say $1250 for an endgame-never-look-at-this-range-again 24-70*-lens with edge-edge-sharpness from 2.8, AW etc etc, (doesn't exist), but if offering less the price needs to be less.

Temporary solutions not fulfilling it all also considered =)

As it stands now of "qualifying" lenses; DFA24-70 seems to be the best overall, but I'm reluctant due to price at 67% of the 70-200* -lens while having less sharp edges than for example 28-105 at F4. Sigma 20-40 F2.8 could be promising, but seems rare. F/FA 20-35 and 24-50 are possible candidates, but I'll have to have a closer look, and reviews aren't as raving ("just" positive) as they'd be for an endgame lens I think, but they (and sigma 24-70 hsm) could be an ok solution for a time if I find one at a good price. And I have the Tokina 20-35, but it has some strange glow so IQ isn't quite there.

Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 12-19-2017, 01:49 AM

How to solve K1/FF wide->short normal need (repeat question?)
Posted By Igor123

Replies: 43
Views: 4,093

Thanks for all the great input! It seems that most say to get the 24-70 anyway. Maybe I will...just need to think or get used to the price/non-*-ratio first and maybe use the 12-24 and F50 in the meantime...unless I stumble upon a good offer for and try one of the F/FA zooms, of preferably if I find that sigma 20-40, looks better than many other final-pentaxavailable-gen-sigma-zooms.

A couple of thoughts regarding a few of the suggestions:

Yes, the F/FA of this lens seem ok, and you mention film, which is always something but I hoped to see if someone can compare any of them to a more modern lens on digital, but thanks for the input! (Or did you use it on digital as well, and if so on what bodies?)

twomonger: Thanks for the info about solutions outside pentax, but at the moment I'm not very keen on switching or getting additional systems (for various reasons...I think I might have gone with pentax even if getting in from 0 today as well).

It's manual though? Or is there an AF version as well...didn't see it in the reviews section.

Oh my, I had missed this one, looks really promising by just reading about it but will need to research it more. Probably not a lot better than 24-70, if at all, but if less than half the price it might be a more agreeable compromise...seems rare though.

Thanks, but no, with small kids I don't have time to fiddle too much with switching lenses so the main goal is not having to switch in the 24-35mm range (so don't want to split it into 24+28-X, and preferably about 20-40 in the same lens). AF is also a requirement since they move arounbd quite a bit. IQ-wise, if I were single, or perhaps just without kids, I'd go more with primes as you say to get the most of each shot, but don't have that "luxury" now =)

Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 12-18-2017, 06:17 PM

How to solve K1/FF wide->short normal need (repeat question?)
Posted By Igor123

Replies: 43
Views: 4,093

I have seen and read similar threads, so forgive me if I'm redundant, but I haven't seen the exact requirement, or a suggestion that fits me in those, so I'll try a new thread. Feel free to point me to an answer otherwise! =)

When shooting in tight quarters with my K5, the DA12-24 has been a miracle in IQ vs zoomrange. Sure, a tad slow, but my copy has been all but a stack of primes. Now I got a K1 and want to maximize the sensor, so I want a similar, or even perhaps not as wide lens for FF (barely used 12mm, or 14). I thought I was prepared, but turns out I'm not quite after having tried my options so I need advice.

First what I want and what I miss:
- I have realized I very rarely go below 14 and could make by on 16mm apsc even, so a 24mm FF will be ok - I don't like the distortions that follow below (16mm apsc)
- Focal length of up 35mm is nice, but if longer, that would be great to reduce the need to swap lenses.
- I rarely used 20mm equiv, but would be a plus if I got it (instead of "just" 24)
- 28mm is too narrow
- I don't think I'm that sensitive to weight/size, so in theory the 24-70 could do it ...BUT

Entering pentax-land 10 years ago as a student on very limited budget, having time to swap and use old great manual primes with SR to get super IQ, was the main lure with pentax (their edges may not have been up to standard, but they were ff primes so on apsc it was great). Now I have more funds, and can sell some gear to get the 24-70...BUT being the first lens in that class that I'd buy (unless the 12-24 counts), I'm somewhat bummed that it doesn't seem to be quite up there on the top, "just" very high...edge sharpness is only "ok" from several reviews (beaten by the 28-105 at F4, but 28 is too long and F4 is ok but rather 2.8 if possible). I think I'd even be willing to pay 30-50% more for a *-endgame-lens of 24-70 if that existed...Now I'd get "just" good glass for more or less *-money (currently the 24-70 sells for $1k and 70-200* for 1.5k and that's a lot more glass metal and *-rating), which doesn't sit great with me going for the 24-70.

So what have I tried:
- Using the 12-24 in FF mode...sure at 24mm it more or less covers ff, but is only great in the 1:1 -part..the edges aren't great even at 24. Also having a bit more lenght when isolating subjects would be nice instead of cropping.
- I got the Tokina 20-35 F3.5-4.5. It's said to be even sharper than the 2.8 version, and well, its good for focal length and acceptable speed, but even if sharpness is barely ok, it has some kind of glow...not as good as the 12-24 and having to stop down to 5.6 or more to get there is taking it too far for me to be satisfied.
- I had the Sigma 24-70 F2.8 DG Macro (non-hsm) on the K5 a few years, but sold it due to not great wide open iq (even on aps-c).

What I have seen that might fit?:
The F20-35: Looks like nice range and so on, but ratings maybe don't place it far above the tokina...is it any better?
The F24-50: Nice range and supposed to have better newer ghostless coatings, but again, ratings are good, but is it the end-game I want?
Sigma 24-70 HSM? Supposed to be better than the one I had but good enough, or at least good enough for the price?

Other thoughts:
- Tamron 28-75, ok for the price, but 28 is too narrow
- 28-105 DFA seems nice, but 28mm would force me to swap lenses, so 24mm is max for me now, preferably 20
- The 15-30 is a little bit too short perhaps and a lot of money spent on the wrong end of the zoom for this case - I want to avoid swapping if possible when indoors, 35mm is min for the upper limit to have at least a shot at portrait-ish pics.

So to sum it up, I have the funds now if selling gear, which I think I have, but i don't have time to be swapping primes, and would like something that covers at least 24-35-ish and preferably 20-40 or more, F4 can be ok but 2.8 is better, WR is a plus of course, and must be AF. Is there anything for me? (if considering the DFA24-70 is a little bit to little for too much money or not quite endgame)?

(If that's relevant, I'd then reduce my gear to this lens, Tamron 70-200, F*300 4.5, A400 5.6, and probably not be able to part with the F50 1.7, but the idea is that I won't consider it worth swapping to the 50 if this lens, whatever is recommended, is on the camera)

Thanks!

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