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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-15-2015, 12:47 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Chaos! Bring on the CHAOS!


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 10:10 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
:D :D :D


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 06:57 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Not to worry...it is all cheap obsolete junk. The two most recent photos were taken with my Russian Jupiter-9. It is a rather rude lens of pre-WWII design (Zeiss Sonnar), but has nice bokeh.

It is obvious that the lens is under-performing despite having been made in the digital era (2007) ....


K10D, LZOS Jupiter-9 85/2


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 05:52 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Indeed the newest generation Sigma lenses are quite a break with what has been done before and reflect advancement in both precision lens grinding and molded element technology. What was once theory and could only be built at great expense is now possible at reasonable cost. Isn't it a great time to be alive and be a photographer.

That being said, innovation does not make existing solutions and implementations obsolete or less valid as long as current use reflects original intent. 200+ lp/mm resolution is the same whether a lens was designed and built before you were born or is the characteristic of the newest fast-wide zoom. If the old lens is in my bag and the new one is not in yours, guess who is going to get the shot?


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 05:35 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
My compositions reflect my mind and sometimes that means chaos. Sometimes, I do a planned composition, say for still life or portrait, but usually my images are a type of "found art". You can tell me what rules I prefer (Vanity LINK to fotostevia on Flickr) ;)

As for chairs, I am sitting in a straight back wood-seated chair right now, though I have a recliner that I seldom use. Pews are OK. The traditional kind with their hard seats remind one they are church.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 05:27 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Oh, yes...polonium strip built into the brush. I don't think the brushes are available anymore, but polonium is used in smoke detectors, IIRC.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 05:25 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Not my painting. It is a miniature shot at minimum focus distance. I believe the long axis of the painting was about 3 1/2" and the coarseness of the brush strokes was intentional. The artist was showing it to a friend and set it down on its tiny easel on the edge of the fountain pool in the background. I saw the composition from about twenty feet away, asked it I could make a photograph and grabbed the shot hand-held.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 03:42 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Yes, though it depends on the camera and desired image. My LZOS Jupiter-9 was fine wide-open on the K10D, but is of limited usefulness even at f/4 on the K-3. Going down the ranks, my Auto-Rikenon 55/1.4 has a center hot spot and is unacceptable on both the K10D and K-3. It also suffers from poor contrast at wider apertures and is not that great on film either. The just plain not so good category also applies to my Vivitar Auto Wide-Angle 28/2.5 (Kiron-made) in M42. I keep it because it has a huge front element and looks cool on the junk Spotmatic I use for decoration on my mantle.

The rest of the lenses on my shelf, with one exception are quite acceptable on both cameras. That is particularly true for the 20 or so fast 50s that have found their "forever home" with me. As for the one exception, that is the Pentax DA 18-55/3.5-5.6 v1 which is inadequate on the K-3 for a non-downsampled image. That is too bad :(


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 02:41 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Lenses have not really advanced that much for many focal lengths and lens types.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 02:38 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Yep...vintage zooms mostly suck. (Just joking...the 18-135 is great for what it is and there are few vintage zooms at any quality point that can touch it for that zoom range.)



Who uses that rule? I use the rule of eye, meaning that what I see, I shoot. :p


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 02:35 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
See my discussion of the Helios 44 58/2 (derived directly from the pre-WWII Zeiss Biotar 58/2) above...not always. It depends on the design goals.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 02:29 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
This is quite true. In fact, some lenses that are a little sub-par on film are quite acceptable on APS-C digital. The best example that comes to my mind is my KMZ Helios 44M 58/2. It was made in Russia in 1978 and true to its Zeiss Biotar heritage has impressive center sharpness and contrast at all apertures. The lens is quite free of CA and PF and has great bokeh and color rendering. However, on 35mm film the edges are unacceptably soft. I don't use that lens on any of my film cameras. Oh...I have also found that its performance is quite adequate for my K-3. $15 USD...what a deal, eh?

This one was accepted into the PPG:


Pentax K10D, KMZ Helios 44M 58/2



Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 02:15 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Part of the strangeness of this discussion is the definition of what constitutes "older". For all practical purposes, not much has changed in "lens land" since the FA series was first available almost 25 years ago. The FA series are definitely modern in terms of coatings, materials, and manufacturing techniques with the F series being only slightly less so.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 02:07 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
I would suggest that the word is "less" reflective and then just barely. I have a snippet of unprocessed Fuji Acros 100 on the counter beside my computer as I type and except for color, I would be hard-put to tell the difference between front and back side by reflectance alone. As for angle, the cosine θ ^ 4 rule applies regardless of medium.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 01:59 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Not in my cameras! At least not intentionally. There is this little device in the film chamber called a pressure plate that holds the film flat across the frame.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 01:56 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Radioactive coatings? The rare earth elements were incorporated into the formula for the glass to fine tune the refractive characteristics.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 01:54 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Not my experience.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 01:52 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
On an SLR, angle is essentially a non-issue. The idea that the sensels exist in the bottom of a deep well is an exaggeration. If such were the case, significant vignette with vintage SLR glass would be the rule on FF digital cameras, but it is not. There is an issue with FF mirrorless digital cameras and vintage rangefinder wide angles, but that is due to the rear elements of many of those lenses extending to within a few millimeters of the sensor surface. The angles at edge of frame are quite shallow as a result. The Soviet-made Jupiter-12 in Contax/Kiev mount demonstrates the issue quite nicely...



Yes, this lens can be adapted to the Sony A7.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 01:28 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
This an interesting statement and one that I tend to agree with. In general, CA (not the same as PF) is a matter of lens design. Lenses that have it on digital also have it on film. It was an issue back in the day, even before the advent of color films, and was usually part of any good published lens test. At issue was lens sharpness. CA is not about false color as much as it is about sharpness and local contrast. Most SLR lenses made since WWII, are fairly well corrected and represent a good compromise between chromatic aberration control and other desirable characteristics such as wide maximum aperture.

I would generally agree that the optical quality of modern optics is better across the board than those made before the computer design revolution of the mid-1970s, with most of the improvement being seen in zooms and at the lower and extreme upper ends of the price spectrum. Where I see the least improvement is primes between 35mm and 100mm focal length. Current design is essentially similar/identical to historic design for many of those focal lengths and the vintage glass holds its own nicely in all regards, including CA (both lateral and longitudinal). My DA 50/1.8 is essentially equivalent performance-wise to my M 50/1.7 on my K-3 with both being somewhat less stellar than the K 55/1.8. (The DA 50/1.8 does seem to be more prone to a blooming flare in the OOF areas, but I have not well-characterized that at present.)*

I am unsure as to how much credit should be given to modern manufacturing techniques. In the past, it was almost unheard of to have a name brand lens come off the shelf with poorly-centered elements. After all, they were all hand built and the better brands were assembled by skilled craftsmen. Today, it seems to be common enough that lens rental places routinely check all new arrivals for alignment issues. The sample-to-sample variation is on a par or worse than Soviet product.


Steve

* The DA 50/1.8 and M 50/1.7 share a common optical design heritage. For many purposes, the DA 50/1.8 may be considered to be a tweaked version of the M 50/1.7.
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-14-2015, 01:08 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
Never mind that such glass has been absent from other than Soviet lenses for about 45 years.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-10-2015, 06:17 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
...unless you are reading on a large format film forum, in which case you will find that they still believe that cos θ ^ 4 still applies to film despite the presence of digital sensors in the universe.


Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-10-2015, 05:57 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057















You Tube





Steve
Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 06-10-2015, 05:55 PM  
Do older "film" lenses underperform on digital cameras compared with new lenses?
Posted By stevebrot
Replies: 131
Views: 13,057
The issue of sensor reflections has been going around for some time and is a marketing point for "digital-optimized" lenses, most of which are optimized by the addition of better coatings. I shoot with a mix of "film" and "digital" lenses and with very few exceptions have not been able to make any generalization regarding contrast. The few exceptions are notable in that the potential for reflection is pretty evident by examination and probably was present with film as with digital.

There are a few threads on this site and elsewhere that are about specular ghosting in night shots and/or aperture shadowing, both in the absence of heavy flare. The culprit is usually a design that features a broad, flat, and projecting rear element. Light exiting the lens does so at a high angle (that is good), but has high potential to bounce to the lens and back resulting in a hot spot at or near the center of the frame or, for night shots, multiple hot spots associated with bright points.

My Auto Rikenon 55/1.4 does this quite readily and I seldom use it for digital as a result.

FWIW, I have done direct comparison of the DA 50/1.8 against the K 55/1.8 and both A and M 50/1.7 and found all four to have reliably excellent contrast, despite the former's digital "optimization".


Steve
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