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Forum: Lens Clubs 01-30-2023, 11:53 AM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
Don't you think this lens is amazing?
I did some of my best portraits with this same lens (on film, Pentax 6x7).
Now it sits in a cupboard with the PK adapter on, ready to prove its worth on the K-1.
I'm away from home now, other way I would have used it for some portraits....

Cheers
Paolo
Forum: Lens Clubs 12-08-2018, 04:56 AM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
Forgot to write one more thing.
When you read that an f/whateveritis lens would behave on another format as an f/0.9 lens, of course it doesn't mean that the lens gets faster by magic.
It simply means that IF you keep the subject size the same, the bokeh would look similar to the result you'd get from a much faster lens, simply because of a change in perspective.
To affect the physics of a lens we need optical means: they are called Booster Adapters.
The elements of the adapter concentrate the information (the photons) to a smaller area. A full frame lens used with an m4/3 booster actually increases the theoretical aperture. It's the opposite way a teleconverter works.
DOF and bokeh are affected, cause the actual focal length has changed.
However, the effective max aperture could be a little slower than expected cause more glass means more dispersion. The change in F stop is not met by the same increase in T stop (the real amount of light that reaches the sensor). It is a detail, though. If you use a lens designed for a larger format, and want to have a real increase in speed, the boosters are they way to go. You can shoot from the same place, and the bokeh won't look different because you move closer, but because the nature (focal and speed) of the lens is different.

All in all, I see some good reasons to use medium format lenses on smaller formats, and it's not because of some disputable formula.
I know that some people see it in a negative way, saying that the larger circle of coverage can cause inter reflections (especially in adapted objectives), and because some lenses are actually a tad less sharp than their 35mm equivalents.
Coverage comes at a price, optically speaking. On top of that, the design had to be good enough at lower enlargements, allowing for some compromises.
In reality, in some cases the use of medium format optics on smaller formats allows to have access, for relatively cheap, to a kind of rendition that is nowhere to be found in what the market offers at present times.
Let's also not forget that medium format lenses were designed as "pro" optics, with first tier performance.
If you want the "Sonnar character", is there any other choice in that focal range other than your 180mm for Pentacon Six?
Btw, using such big chunks of glass wouldn't be so cheap nowadays.
Same with Ernostar designs.
I could continue... but I guess I have made the point.
Medium format lenses have a place. It is up to individual choices and preferences if it would work, according to our needs and tastes, or not.
Forum: Lens Clubs 12-08-2018, 01:47 AM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
The challenge requires some thinking. I will use some time to give it a good thought...

The question is rather simple, but the answer is a bit more complex than what it seems to be.
I am much more knowledgeable in the history of camera lenses than in optical theory. Which means that I lack any basic background in mathematic and physics. I am not so sure I will not incur in practical mistakes, and I'm sure any formally correct answer would require the kind of background I don't have.
Let's start with the basic. A lens, of any kind/focal/aperture, would behave the same way independently from the format of the film/sensor.
An 80mm f/1.9 keeps its intrinsic characteristics whatever camera you use. The only difference is the area of the circle of coverage that is actually used.
Depending of the format, the angle of view (and the perspective!) changes, so that the same 80mm would be called a "normal" of a 6x6 camera, and a short tele on a 35mm/FF one.
BUT... what I just said is true ONLY if we keep the camera in the same place. If we want to cover the same angle of view, and try to take the same picture, we would see that when the 80mm is fitted to an FF camera we have to back off, in order to capture the same scene.
It is the difference in distance from the main subject that causes what we call perspective compression. If the size of the subject has to be the same across formats, the distance has to vary. This is the one and only cause of geometric distortion in wide angles. If we fit a 28mm on an APS-C camera we can stay away from the subject. If we fit the same lens on a FF camera, we have to go closer, and that change in perspective would deform the facial features, so that the nose seems to have grown bigger.
If we kept the same distance from the subject, the same face would be either smaller or bigger in the picture, but the way it looks would be the same.
Same thing with depth of focus.
It is widely accepted to consider a 50mm the "normal" lens for 35mm/FF cameras. In reality it would be a little less, to match human vision, but this is another story...
The same way it is widely accepted to consider a 300mm lens the "normal" for 8x10" film.
If we shoot the same scene we would see that the two pictures look very similar. Though it's not totally true, the SIZE of the subject is almost the same, but the DOF is not. This is because a 300mm has the same depth of field, across formats. Some lenses give the IMPRESSION of more DOF, because of the way they are designed. The sharper they are the more evident the difference between in focus and out of focus, so our eye is tricked into believing that the DOF is smaller. DOF is calculated using three values, it's physics. The human eye can be fooled, which is not a bad thing. Actually I'm quite happy that different lenses give a different "impression" of reality.
Of course this has very much to do with the way bokeh is rendered, because the circle of confusion of out of focus highlights looks different depending on the distance from the plane of correct focus.
Well, circle of confusion. Again, the answer is not straightforward because there is a variable.
In analog times the formula of DOF involved three values: focal, aperture and conventional circle of confusion. The latter was taken as a variable because the accepted circle of confusion (which determines what is acceptably sharp to the average human eye), was made to vary according to the format.
The reason was simple, larger negatives had to be enlarged less, so a level of sharpness that would be unacceptable with a 35mm film would be more than enough with a large sheet film. Contact print on 8x10", from negatives taken with horribly unsharp lenses, look gorgeous.
Some Ansel Adams pictures were taken with the back half of a Turner & Reich double anastigmat. Such lens allowed him to use a "tele", but the optical quality was awful. Nevertheless he managed to print amazing black & whites.
He did that stopping down like crazy, and contact printing (or enlarging just very little).
This is where I am at a loss. Is the relevance of circle of confusion in the equation still relevant?
In the first place most pictures are not printed but used with computer screens or projectors.
For example the image can be resampled to 72dpi with no adverse effect on the perceived quality.
The printing technology is also quite different from what it used to be. Does it make a difference or not?
In general, medium format lenses had to meet less stringent sharpness levels because of the use of a more relaxed circle of confusion (less enlargement).
This is generally true, BUT... some medium format objectives are no worse than contemporary small format ones, and surprise surprise, some optics sold for the small format were in reality capable of a much larger coverage. Anybody who went through the hassle of Leitax'ing an old Leitz long focus has probably found that such simple achromatic doublets work amazingly better than expected (if you knew the design and not the brand! :) ). This is because the APS-C (or even FF) frame covers a small part of the real circle of coverage. The huge amount of peripheral aberrations is left out of the frame.

So yes, your 1.9/80mm will stay the same wherever it goes, be it the original 4.5x6 format camera, a smaller digital medium format one, an FF, or an APS-C.
If the camera stays put, the only thing the varies is the size of the captured part of the scene.
Any formula that says anything different is based on one very unrealistic assumption: the subject always keeps the same size.
In reality, if you have a lens that behaves like a tele, it's likely that you would use it from further away.
I repeat it. If the camera stays in the same place, there is no variation in perspective nor in reproduction ratio. A smaller format captures a smaller portion of the circle of coverage, that's all.
If you move the camera to get the same reproduction ratio, then the perspective, the DOF and of course the rendition of the bokeh would change.
Regarding sharpness, it is likely that a medium format lens was designed to be a tad less sharp than a small format one, because of a smaller expected
enlargement ratio (which called for a more relaxed circle of confusion, to get the same level of sharpness in the final print).
It is not a fixed rule valid for all medium format objectives, but I believe that to some extent the same concept is still valid today.
If you print a file from your Pentax 645 the required enlargement would be smaller, so the optic can be just a tad less sharp than one used on smaller formats.

I hope I didn't create further confusion. I hope I haven't been too repetitive, I just tried my best to be clear.
English is my second language, not my mother language.
Forum: Lens Clubs 12-07-2018, 10:56 AM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
Hahaha, I'm embarrassed :)
There are far more knowledgeable folks around, I'm sure.
I just happen to have a good memory, and remember a few things I have either read online, in books, or (very few) found myself.

One more thing about soft focus lenses.
They are not a thing of the past. Leica released short time ago a new version of the famous (and hugely expensive) Thambar.
Canon filed for a optical patent concerning soft focus designs in 2018:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7576945995/canon-patent-application-teases-ful...oft-focus-lens
It confirms that even in a time of fake computational bokeh, soft focus lenses still have a place.
Forum: Lens Clubs 12-07-2018, 05:23 AM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
I don't know the exact meaning of that sentence, but I do know that soft focus lenses are very different one from another in the way they render the subject.
Under diffused light the difference is not always easily visible, but under the right lighting it becomes quite apparent, even to an untrained eye.
This is due to the simple fact that the various lens makers used completely different approaches.
The SMC Pentax 2.2/85mm is an achromatic doublet, in practice it's an Imagon that has been reversed (diaphragm is behind, not in front of the objective) and stripped of the "tea strainer".
The Fuji soft focus lenses have a more elaborated design, and the strainer disk has to be inserted inside the lens. Unlike the Imagon, the disk is not adjustable to two different values. All the Fuji SF optics have the same design, across formats.
The Pentax F and FA 85mm share the same optical design, but the FA has a smarter way of dealing with the difficult task of correctly focusing an optic that is by definition "soft focus". The optical layout is rather complex: 5 elements in 4 groups.
I also own a very strange bird, the Pentax-FA 2.8/28mm Soft Focus. It is made of 5 elements in 5 groups and has an optical design that reminds of some very early retrofocus objectives of the fifties, revised, more complex and faster.
The 120mm for the Pentax 6x7/67 is a slightly simpler design (3G/4E), but has a completely different optical approach from the Imagon and the various triplets. There is an interesting university degree thesis that centers around the design and the peculiar rendering of different soft focus projects. For the record, the author criticises Pentax's approach and concludes that the simple Imagon design is still the best. If anybody is interested, I can provide the link or at least the title. It's in english.
All the various Pentax SF objectives control the amount of halation through the aperture. The closer the diaphragm the sharper the result.
The Rodenstock and Fuji approach is more refined, there are both the strainer disk and the diaphragm, and both can be used to control spherical aberration. Some very old SF lenses used chromatic aberration instead, but the advent of panchro film made them obsolete. Photographers who shot with those lenses had to juggle a lot to get correctly focused images. I spare you the details....
Those wanting to experiment on the cheap would find that even a simple 2-elements diopter lens is an achromat... and can be used as a simple SF lens without getting too crazy. The larger the diameter of the diopter, the better it is.
Many legendary soft focus lenses of the past had a specific ring that moved one element inside the lens, affecting the degree of spherical aberration.
One example is the pre-war Meyer Trioplan 270mm, that has the same basic Cooke triplet design of modern Trioplan's, but the central element could be adjusted to dial in the right amount of softness. The same way, all the legendary Cooke Portrait lenses had a similar softness ring, which controlled either the central or back elements of the triplet.
The only modern time objective with a dedicated softness ring is the Tamron 70-150mm Soft Focus. It's rare, expensive, and has the greatest level of control of the level/nature of halo. The use of both the SF ring and the diaphragm allows for a very fine adjustment of the rendition.
I have two of them, cause yes, I like that optics as much! :)
The last one sold for $735 on eBay, and when I did the search I couldn't find a single one on sale.
It would make sense to sell one and dedicate the money to some other vintage lens I dream of... but I am hesitant because of course I have only one example with me, and for some reason I didn't use it at all recently, so at least before selling I want to use it for a while.
Soft focus lenses have never been cheap, but some were exceptionally expensive. Karl Struss, the same man who won the first Academy Award for movie photography, designed some years before the Struss Pictorial Lens. It was a hand-ground SF aspherical meniscus lens for portrait photographers.
Grinding by hand an aspherical profile from large glass blanks was a very complicated affair. Any lens was slightly different from the other, and many were rejected. It was so expensive to produce, that the quartz (yes, from a huge crystal of quartz!) version had almost the same price of the optical glass one.
With the same amount of money you could either buy a large Struss, or 3 (three!!) Ford Model T :) :)
Btw, the second wave of american pictorialism, and the birth of the Hollywood movie industry, called for more high quality, crazy soft focus lenses, so after the Struss, a new quartz lens was made, the Hanovia Kalosat.
These lenses, along with the slightly cheaper Pinkham & Smith, were my objects of desire when I was actively collecting large format soft focus lenses.
When I definitively turned to digital-only I realised it was a shame to buy lenses that I would never use, so I gave up. Btw, most of those I don't have are hugely expensive and I would never, ever have enough funds to buy them :)

I hope my little digest sparked some curiosity. If you want to learn more about the fascinating world of SF lenses, Internet can provide much food for thoughts, and many gorgeous portraits of Hollywood starlets of the twenties, shots with the kind of objectives I just mentioned, and many many others.
The level of technical competence, ingenuity and finesse of the photographers who actually shot those portraits frankly puts to shame the vast majority of present time professionals.
I have been so amazed by those masters of black and white that I checked on Google Books the availability of photographic books of the time.
Well, photography required a good level of wizardry, and the iconographic level of the images was impressively high.
Hats off.

EDIT:
I often find on the Web the theory that at present time soft focus lenses have no reason to exist, because the original image can be tweaked in post production.
I don't agree, and I think that most of those who back this opinion have never seen a beautiful print of a picture shot with a good soft focus lens.
A nice soft focus image has nothing to do with a blurry or poorly focused one.
A proper SF lens provides a sharp picture superimposed with a certain amount of halo, that "bleeds" from highlight areas into mid-tone areas.
It would take plenty of digital wizardry to get the same results in PP.
Forum: Lens Clubs 12-05-2018, 11:40 PM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
I like Fuji soft focus optics.
The large format version has been a favourite of pro portrait photographers for a few decades.
I believe the 85mm for 35mm film cameras to be as good.
I have a 210mm in Copal shutter, one of the few large format soft focus objectives that had coated glasses.
Most of the legendary, hyper expensive SF lenses did not, cause they were made pre-war.
When I collected large format portrait and soft focus lenses I bought all those I could find at remotely affordable prices, including two rare birds: the Cooke Portrait Series IIE (the only coated Cooke Portrait) and a Marcucci Pictor 270mm.
I think of them with a mix of awe and guilt. It took a lot of effort to find the uncommon ones, and now I don't shoot analog anymore... :(

The soft focus lens that dominated the market for quite a long time, at least in Europe, was the Rodenstock Imagon.
Born as Kuhn portrait objective, and made by Staeble (if I remember correctly), was later sold to Rodenstock and produced in huge numbers, compared with other SF optics.
I still have a few, in shutter and in barrel, up to the focal of 420mm, but none of them is really usable on a modern DSLR, because of the long focals.
I yearned over a long time for one of the shorter focals, that were used (with a focusing mount) on medium format film cameras.
They are always quite expensive, especially those in Hasselblad mount.
Well... after countless lost auctions I have finally acquired an old 120mm in focusing mount. It will not come dirty cheap, but at least I can afford it! :)
Here it is:

Kochman 120mm Jmagon in Korelle mount


I will post more details and pictures on the "Your last acquisition" thread.

cheers

Paolo
Forum: Lens Clubs 12-05-2018, 04:09 PM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
No easy, practical suggestion. Sorry.
As far as I remember mine had the Pentacon Six to M42 adapter on, so if you have/find such adapter you can use it for M2/PK cameras.
The adaptation was done by my friend/repairman using a lathe. I remember I gave him a 6x7 extension ring to be used for the bayonet... but I got it back, he had masterfully done it using a slice of a high grade aluminum rod. All done manually, with a small lathe and a micrometric burr.
Actually he made two bayonets, not one.
The other was used to convert to 6x7 mount a nice octagonal bellows (originally in Pentacon Six mount). I had in mind to convert another P6 lens, the Zenitar 35mm fisheye, but it was a very complex job, got postponed, and in the end I gave up and sold it.
Forum: Lens Clubs 12-05-2018, 09:02 AM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
Like this? :)



I'm very proud of the original Pentax PK adapter :)
It comes useful for three 6x7 lenses.
Both the 120mm SF and the 135mm Macro work well on smaller formats, then I have a Pentacon 5.6/500mm that was converted long ago to Pentax 67 mount.
All the other 6x7 optics I own don't make much sense.
A pity the 120mm is not very portable, like all the other 6x7/67 lenses.
For this reason I almost never use them (I haven't shot analog in a while).
Maybe one day I will follow your example and go for a bigger sensor...
Forum: Lens Clubs 11-30-2018, 10:08 AM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
It happens that I don't have with me any raw file of pictures shot with soft focus lenses.
I have many SF objectives, but I haven't used them lately... and I have in my laptop only an archive with recent photos.
Cleaning some old jpg's that were of no use but took a lot of space on my laptop's SSD drive, I found a few interesting shots.
The pictures are ugly. No doubt about that. Though they can be useful as reference.
Here is a rock made by some marine invertebrates, shot in rather strong light with a super sharp objective, a rather sharp one, and a Pentax soft focus.
The pictures are resized/resampled at different levels to keep a similar size (the focals and of course the magnification ratio were different).
The three lenses are:
1) Sigma AF Macro 105mm @f/4
2) Tamron AF SP (52E) 2.5/90mm (the AF version of the original Tamron macro f/2.5, very common in Adaptall-2 mount), with Kenko AF-Pz 2x tele extender (real aperture f/8)
3) SMC Pentax Soft Focus 2.2/85mm, shot at f/5.6
I am positively sure the Pentax was used at f/5.6 cause it's written in the filename, and I think to remember the two macros were both shot at f/4 or f/5.6.
I have another shot taken with the soft focus wide open which has way too much halo. So I left it out.





Sorry for the hugely different exposure. I don't have the raw's, therefore I preferred not to mess with the jpg's, and leave the shots as they are.
The point of posting these rather uninteresting pics is the huge difference between a super sharp lens (the Sigma), another macro lens with the IQ affected by a 2x teleconverter, and the old SMC Pentax 2.2/85mm stopped down all the way to f/5.6.
The difference is impressive. The pictures explain, better than any written text, that under strong contrasty lighting a soft focus lens can show a huge amount of halation even when shot at mid apertures.
I was going to erase all the jpg's in a huge folder. Before doing that I decided that these images could be shared as a simple, humble example of how a strong, directional light can affect the rendering of the 2.2/85mm SF.
Please forgive me for the really ugly pics :)
Forum: Lens Clubs 11-25-2018, 02:14 PM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
I pass :)
I would be happy to own the FA (which is the only Pentax-made soft focus lens I don't own), but the optics are identical to the F model, so it would be for collection purpose only.
Better to save the money for something more useful...
Forum: Lens Clubs 09-15-2018, 08:19 AM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
I like all the flower pics shot with the Pentax-F soft focus.
I used it very little cause I found it more "bland" than the K version.
Now I realise that it's not entirely true. It's all about the light.
These pictures have a beautiful halo.
The level of halation strongly depends on the light. The more it is strong and contrasty, the more soft focus lenses work at their best.
In internals it's better to setup some kind of strong lighting, other way the picture could look washed-out and unsharp.
Forum: Lens Clubs 04-17-2017, 04:54 AM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
Very nice glow, quite strong even at f/4.

Btw, the two autofocus version, F and FA, have the same optics.
The difference is in the way AF/diaphragm work...

cheers

Paolo
Forum: Lens Clubs 04-11-2017, 09:12 AM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
Tamron Soft Focus zoom almost at its sharpest (Pentax K-1):

Chinese New Year eve by spaulein, on Flickr

Tamron's glow fully unleashed (on K-01):

At Villa Talon 1 by spaulein, on Flickr

At Villa Talon 2 by spaulein, on Flickr

cheers
Paolo
Forum: Lens Clubs 04-10-2017, 09:42 PM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
no, i'm referring to the "soft" ring on the Tamron zoom :)
On the Tamron you control the amount of "glow" both ways: diaphragm and position of a floating element inside the lens...

I don't have any picture shot with Pentax soft focus lenses with me.
I'm in another continent, and i just have my laptop with me... :)
These are all shot with a K-1 and the Tamron.



cheers

Paolo
Forum: Lens Clubs 04-10-2017, 04:11 PM  
Soft lenses club --> Show us what you can do with these special lenses!
Posted By cyberjunkie
Replies: 243
Views: 34,008
I love soft focus lenses, i am so crazy for them that i own most those made by Pentax, and mentioned by the OP (actually i miss only the 85mm FA, cause has the same optics of the F).
Though the lens i prefer, for its flexibility and usability, is the Tamron SP 70-150mm f/2.8 Soft Focus (51A).
Not easy to master (i'm far from that!), but definitely a wonderful lens.

I have some pics i'd like to post. I'm starting with the first two portraits, shot either at 0 or 1.
Quite sharp, but with a nice bokeh and a pleasant rendition.
Just a touch of softness...


At Polar Club, Seattle 1 by spaulein, on Flickr

At Polar Club, Seattle 2 by spaulein, on Flickr


cheers

Paolo

---------- Post added 11-04-17 at 01:22 AM ----------

More pics.
If i remember correctly, the first two were shot at 0, the last at 1 (the soft ring has 4 positions, from 0 to 3):


Outside Warorot Market, at night 1 by spaulein, on Flickr

Outside Warorot Market, at night 2 by spaulein, on Flickr

Outside Warorot Market, at night 3 by spaulein, on Flickr

To be sincere, i'm not so sure about the SF setting, i could have shot all of them at 1.
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