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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
02-02-2016, 10:42 AM
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Try turning on the 2-second timer. The pre-flash is when you click the shutter, the main flash is during the exposure. This has caused one or two questions on these forums:). Not so great for a shoot involving moving people, but assuming your slaved flashes have time to recharge during this 2-seconds this could be another way to use it to sync with 'dumb' optical slaves. It also works this way with mirror lock up - first click triggers the pre-flash, second click triggers the main flash, which could be used to give slave flashes time to recover (but your k-30 doesn't have a dedicated mirror lock up mode afaik).
With the 12-second timer, the pre-flash happens right before the main exposure.
A quick test with my flash meter put the preflash one stop lower than the main flash at full power (k5iis). Some flash genuises might claim to be able to detect this difference by eye, I sure as heck can't and definitely not if they're in rapid succession:).
---------- Post added 02-02-16 at 12:49 PM ----------
I can be overly zealous at defending things that I think are unfairly being criticized, and sometimes have to remind myself how 'fair criticism' can be very subjective. So I want to apologize if I've come off as overly 'blamey':(. I know how easy it is to miss a little detail or how frustrating it can be if you've read something in that wasn't there or if you just didn't know something that 'everyone' else did. So yeah, sorry if I've added to your frustration along your path to illumination:).
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
02-02-2016, 09:34 AM
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That's awesome and hopeful for future 'low end' models:).
There are two sections titled "Using the Built-in Flash", the other is page 66, a sub section of "Basic Operations". The page 66 section references the section on page 235, but unfortunately the reverse is not true. Only the page 66 section is mentioned in the rather poor index (searchable pdf for the win!).
The preflash is a funny thing, some people are very sensitive to it and every picture of them taken with an auto p-ttl flash ends up catching them blinking from the pre-flash. Others have no such problems. There may also be a dependency on camera and flash model. The pre-flash is very obvious to me on my k100d and k5iis. Without this thread I would never have known some people can't see it even if they're looking for it, so that may come in handy for diagnosing problems in the future:).
I think we have a similar thing with SDM auto-focus. I've seen reports that it's completely silent and others say there is a slight buzz, even with the same body&lens combo. The difference is likely the ears, and if you're someone who can't pick up the frequency you could go a long time not knowing about it.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
01-31-2016, 09:38 PM
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If you've got a method that you're happy with for the future, that's great:).
Being self-employed, I hope you get to schedule a nap or two into your day:D
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
01-31-2016, 10:29 AM
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It doesn't explicitly say how an A lens will behave on that page, but it certainly should tell you that A and non A lenses behave differently with the built-in flash, which you said it didn't. That they are different is in a few other places as well, chart on page 239, the chart on page 255, the text on page 257, etc.
The chart on page 239 lists the flash functions with the Built-in flash. "P-TTL auto flash" is listed, but a manual flash mode is not. Nor is a multi-strobing effect. Nor is producing a coffee, I'm not going to be mad if it ignores my requests for a double double.
This "Full Power" with non-A lenses is an exception to the "P-TTL auto flash" behavior, and it was your assumption that it would carry over to M mode with any lens. An assumption based on what you want the camera's M mode to mean for the built-in P-TTL auto flash, not based on anything in the manual I can see. It's unfortunate you carried this assumption into a photo shoot and ran into problems, and I do understand your frustration from this, but that doesn't make it any less of a user error.
I'm done with the griping about the manual train of thought. If you have any interest in figuring out how to reliably trigger your off-camera strobes, I'm still happy to provide whatever help I can.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
01-31-2016, 09:38 AM
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You just complained that there was no indication that an A lens would behave differently from a non A lens. Complain about the manual all you like, but for goodness sake you should at least read the thing carefully first.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
01-31-2016, 09:25 AM
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I can't find anything misleading in the manual about the built-in flash. It certainly doesn't completely outline every possible behavior in every possible mode, but the manuals just aren't big enough to preemptively head off every single user assumption. Your assumption that it should fire at full power in "M" mode irregardless of the les was just that, an assumption, and not based on any of the literature I can see.
A better walk-away lesson is that you should test the exact same setup you plan to use during a shoot you can't re-do. Understand what went wrong and take steps to correct it for next time. I've suggested a few ways on how to overcome your syncing problems in an earlier post, if you'd like to discuss them I'd be happy to help:).
I do, because it bloody well should! I have hope for future post k3 models:D
It's in the "Lens Compatibility" section but also page 66 of the k30 manual ("Using the Built-in Flash" section):
"The built-in flash always fully discharges when using a lens without an A (Auto) position"
A hint that all is not the same with non-A lenses.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
01-31-2016, 08:30 AM
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The table of flash features (page 239) mentions P-TTL auto on being available with "DA, DA L, D FA, FA J, FA, F or A lens", but doesn't mention what happens in other cases. There is a section on "Functions Available with Various Lens Combinations", and on page 257:
"The built-in flash cannot be regulated and fully discharges when A lenses not set to the A position, lenses manufactured prior to the A lenses or soft focus lenses are used."
Your guess was pretty good:).
It's tough to write a concise manual that pleases everybody. I would have thought they could save space by not mentioning the built-in flash would vignette with the FA 600/4 or the FA 250-600/5.6, but then someone would come along and complain about the black shadow on their $7,000 lens and camera combo so you probably have to include it somewhere.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
01-31-2016, 07:50 AM
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You've added a p-TTL auto flash to the mix, it's no longer fully manual. A bit of info about the pre-flash is on the Ricoh website:
P-TTL pre-flash | Ricoh Imaging Support
This pre-flash is how P/I/E/?-TTL flashes from all manufacturers have worked since they were introduced afaik (this isn't the older TTL that had no pre-flashes!). You won't find every little camera nuance in the manual, there's just not enough room. And certainly not enough room to detail behavior with every expected combination of gear, like your strobes with 'dumb' optical slaves. I won't pretend the manuals are grand, but in the k-30 manual it lists the modes for the built-in flash (page 239). None of them indicate you'd have full manual controls, nor does anything under the 'flash' section of Ricoh's description of the k-30 SLR Pentax K-30 - RICOH IMAGING UK LTD.
If you want to argue that the built-in flash should have full manual controls like a user-controlled power output, then I'd fully agree. It can't be a complicated thing to include, my canon P&S from 11 years ago had a few manual flash power options. They've added this to the k3, and I hope it filters down to all future models.
For what it's worth, you can get optical slaves with a 'delay' mode for use with these fancy p-TTL type flashes. They'll sense the pre-flash then wait a smidgen before firing. A few flashes with built in slave modes include a delay option (Nikon SB-26 for example). Or you can get the cheapest hot-shoe flash with manual controls and stick it in your hotshoe. Use this to trigger your 'dumb' slaves. This would be a better option as you don't really want an on camera flash adjusting it's output and influencing the exposure, even if the off-camera strobes are syncing correctly. Another option is to get radio triggers to do the triggering and skip the optical triggers entirely.
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