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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-09-2010, 03:22 AM
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3rd party car parts do exist here and as all 3rd party products, are legal.
The difference between (legal) 3rd party and (illegal) knock-off lies in the registration of rights. The weakest and most easily obtained right is the Geschmacksmusterschutz which is a variant of the Industrial Design Right. You obtain it if the product isn't entirely defined by its function.
The normal procedure is that Pentax would have registered a Utility Model with Japan, France and Germany and an Industrial Design Right in the UK and US. This hasn't yet been harmonized within the E.U. It is a counterfeit product in countries where Pentax did their homework.
A new system for international registrations of Industrial Design Rights is currently being introduced making it easy to protect (Pentax') Intellectual Property. Cf. https://webaccess.wipo.int/hagueform/ |
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-08-2010, 05:35 PM
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You are making a very good post. Thanks.
Initially, I replied to the original posting which was about an offering made by a German online store. German legislation applies. So, I felt I should mention that the grip as posted is illegal. Pentax Germany will take care of this anyway, I assume.
Then, I was challenged by a friendly forum member and I went into more detail.
You're right, the situation will depend on every market and the precise rights Pentax registered with them (like Utility Model or Industrial Design Right or Design Patent or none at all if they didn't do their homework).
I will not spend the money to query Pentax rights for several markets in detail ;)
You're right, the US doesn't follow the tradition of Utility Model registrations but it does know so-called design patents. A grip which innovates the option to replace one LiOn battery by 6 AA NiMH batteries has good chances to be well protected. But it isn't my task to find out.
I'll follow a suggestion that probably everything was said about the legal side. I'll refrain from posting more on this except if somebody clarifies the exact legal situation to me.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-08-2010, 05:59 AM
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As I have explained (several times now...) it depends on the registered Japanese Utility Model (or Industrial Design Right) application. A query of the Japanese Utility Model database is about $25.
In essence, you can copy a product if it doesn't look and feel like a ripp off. 2 screws and a different label don't suffice. But to change the outer dimensions by more than 10% from the original ones would probably suffice (and leaving out the 6 AA battery option if this is registered in the grip's Utlity Model).
The Japanese Utility Model registry is crafted after the German Gebrauchsmusterschutz Registry. It is like a patent registry except that it suffices to file a couple of images and/or drawings to get it protected for a small fee. There is also no check for prior art (but Utility Models can be deleted) and the validity is typically 5 years only but can be extended.
Here are two examples of local German Geschmacksmusterschutz registrations by Pentax Germany, a variant of the Industrial Design Right:
(The last one is the Pentax cleaning kit)
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-08-2010, 05:51 AM
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Thank you for now having completed your profile :rolleyes:
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-07-2010, 12:34 PM
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You ask why it is against the law to buy from a thief.
The reason is that without people buying from the thief, the thief wouldn't exist. And this thief does cause damage to Pentax! Because there are people who buy the knock off rather than the genuine product. So in short, you help somebody else not buy from Pentax.
If you think it thru, Pentax will now have to charge even more for their next grip, or to dismiss entirely with the idea of a grip (like for K-x) and risk to loose market because of buyers requiring the grip. So, if you buy from the thief, you will actually steal from my money because now I have to pay more for my next grip. Thank You.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-07-2010, 09:16 AM
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It doesn't matter if you would call it counterfeited or not. The legislation and court rulings are what matters.
Once in your life, go to the opening day of a tool machine trade show and see crowds of Chinese booth people been arrested by customs.
They all think it was legal which is why they decided to exhibit in the first place.
There really is no criminal awareness at all. Not with the manufactureres, not their distributors, not the customers.
Which actually is the reason I opted to comment within this thread.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-07-2010, 09:10 AM
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I am not advocating Pentax.
I am just not the kind of person who steals stuff if it is too expensive for him to buy. That's a question of character, my friend.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-07-2010, 08:58 AM
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Unfortunately, the English Wikipedia article about the topic is much less precise than the German one, which clearly distiguishes between five categories of counterfeit:- Plagiarism (Chinese: Shan Zhai; with anagram brand names like Sqny).
- Slavish counterfeiting (name may or may not be identical).
- Classical counterfeit where manufacturer's packaging and name is identical.
- Pirated copy.
- "Utility model"-protected products copied and sold under a different brand.
The infringement here is according to category 5. It is illegal if the genuine manufacturer did file a "utility model" (German: Gebrauchsmusterschutz)). Which I guess Pentax did as the legislation is fully applicable in this case.
A 3rd party accessory is one which works with another product and was designed in a genuine way, i.e., w/o the obvious attempt to simply copy the genuine accessory. Which clearly is the case with this grip, e.g., look at the 6 AA battery holder...
Such a 3rd party grip existed for the Pentax K10D/K20D and it was legal.
For example: A Sigma K mount lens is legal while an essentially 1:1 copy of the DA*60-250/4 sold by Sigma wouldn't.
Therefore and unlike earlier grips, the grip this thread is about is illegal (assuming Pentax did their paper work).
So yes indeed, there is a huge difference between counterfeit and 3rd Party. 3rd party doesn't steal a companies' intellectual property.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-07-2010, 03:24 AM
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No idea. The quoted part contains the part "grip [...] is a counterfeit consumer good."
BTW, a similiar "Me Too" grip would have been legal. Such a grip existed for the K10D/K20D. But I see no reason why we should tolerate a 100%-identical copy where the copier stole Pentax IPs (assuming Pentax JPN registered the "utility model" (German: Gebrauchsmuster)).
BTW, a battery can be copied 100% because it cannot normally have a utility model.
Maybe, you mean the economic consequences of counterfeiting? Maybe, for the grip they are minimal although I think that Pentax uses it to keep the K-7 such a good value.
In general though, counterfeiting destroys entire industries in the EU and US. It is not true that it suffices to charge low prices to avoid this. E.g., for almost every German machine tool there normally exist many counterfeited parts made in China. Of course, you could charge less for machine and parts. But who then would finance logistics, research and development? So, the net effect is that the original company is destroyed, maybe replaced by a Chinese copy. Ironically, sometimes with the Chinese buying the license rights from the now bankrupt genuine company. You're Dutch, not Chinese. So, I don't get your attitude.
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
04-07-2010, 02:23 AM
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Breaking the law because you think it is nonsense? Have a nice time at court ...
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Forum: Pentax DSLR Discussion
03-27-2010, 03:17 AM
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The grip mentioned by the OP is a counterfeit consumer good.
Production, sale, import and purchase are illegal.
This grip is Illegal, folks!
Most of you may not have developed a sensitivity for this kind of things but here in Germany, most companies with nice products face the fact that some (or all) of their products are copied by Chinese companies and even exhibited on German trade shows!
German customs have now special executive forces to shut down sales booth, shops and online stores selling counterfeit consumer goods.
If the grip tried to be different (like the 3rd party grip for the K20D) it would be leagl. However, this one tries to imitate the original which is why it is illegal. It doesn't matter if the grip is sold as "genuine Pentax" or "3rd party made in China". The Chinese grip is an imitation and imitations aren't legal. Just like a copyright infringement. The criminal act is the infringement on intellectual property rights. And of course, photo stores could sell the grip as if it were genuine.
We in the west should not tolerate counterfeit consumer goods because they are going to destroy all our employers and because China is getting really aggressive about this. The Chinese government seems to back up product pirating, not officially but by judging from its acting.
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