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Forum: Lens Clubs 06-06-2022, 02:23 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Here are some from my Russian 1000mm mirror. Uncropped unless noted otherwise. Red Tailed Hawk nest a few blocks from my home.



100% crop of the above:





It wasn't until I was looking at the shots once I got home that I discovered that the item on the menu was avian rather than mammalian. The 100% crop shows some toes sticking out of Junior's mouth:






















Forum: Lens Clubs 01-03-2022, 09:04 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Hi all, a question. Has anyone here tried "relaxing" their Russian mirror lens? Apparently many Russian mirror lenses are somewhat distorted through overtightening during assembly, and a loosening of the primary mirror can improve image quality. This is the procedure is outlined here: Die Russentonne: Justierung und Verbesserung der Qualität (The same translated article also explains how to adjust the focus stop to increase back focus, thus enabling the attachment of prisms and eyepieces for astronomical use of the lens as a telescope.)

If anyone has done this, was the need to do this obvious from use in its uncorrected state? How much of an improvement did it provide? My MTO seems to do pretty well, but I'm wondering if it could do better. I'm wondering about other users' experiences before I take a screwdriver to it. The mirror relaxation seems a simple enough procedure that I don't think I'm risking turning my lens into a really big paperweight, but still, suggestions, experience and advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Forum: Lens Clubs 05-15-2021, 10:14 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Cross posted with the Yard Birds thread.

Here are more shots taken with the MTO 10/1000 on KP, 800 ISO.

Cooper's Hawk. This is the male.



100%






100%









100%




Not too bad, if I do say so myself. It's definitely a lens you take for specific work, rather than on spec.
Forum: Lens Clubs 05-08-2021, 10:13 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Cross posted from the Yard Birds thread.

Today I took my MTO 10/1000 out for some shooting. My version is the older design, dating from the late1950s, where the end closest to the camera is bigger than the front, rather than the whole assembly being a constant diameter throughout its length. This is it here.

In my backyard, a pair of Red Breasted Nuthatches are opening a hole in a dead tree limb. As they are returning reliably to the same spot, I figured they might make good test subjects.

Using the 1000 was a bit trickier than I thought it would be, quite apart from its greater weight and larger size. I'm close enough to the tree that depth of field is quite shallow at this camera to subject distance. Focusing on the hole in the tree where they were working would mean that the birds would actually be slightly out of focus. While the birds were there regularly, they didn't stay still for very long. So, I focused as best I could, using live view with peaking, making adjustments occasionally. I shot on continuos hi, firing short bursts when the birds were around the opening.

This was also the first test of my recently acquired CS-310 cable release, which worked very nicely. I also had a go at using WiFi on my tablet, but I found using the camera's LCD panel better. I might find the tablet more useful with an AF lens, though, so more play is needed.

I attached the lens using a flanged M42-PK adapter, along with a 12mm PK extension tube (to clear the KP's flash housing overhang). My understanding is that Maksutov mirror lenses often focus beyond infinity, so a bit of extension doesn't interfere with infinity focusing. I'll have to test this with some lunar photography at some point. My subjects were much closer in any case, so not an issue.

Unfortunately, the M42-PK adapter resulted in the camera being at an angle. The tree limb in these photos is actually vertical, but the angle of the camera obscures this fact. The lens is much too heavy to use the camera's tripod mount. The lens has a single, non-rotating mount point on the bottom. I believe later MTO 1000mm lenses have two mounting points at right angle to each other. I'll have to either mess around with the tripod head, or try an M42 extension tube, backed off a bit, to see if I can get better alignment.

The sighting posts built into the upper surface of the lens body work very well for aiming. Little additional tripod adjustment was needed for proper subject alignment.

Okay, time to shut up and show some pictures already! All taken with KP, uncropped, with levels and contrast adjusted in post.













Not bad, but not great. I won't post any 100% crops yet. I'm still learning, so I may yet be able to get more out of it. I think it shows promise. More distant subjects will have more forgiving DOF, so there's that. At some point I also want to do some real world tests comparing the MTO to cropping shots from the Tamron 55BB to the same FOV.
Forum: Lens Clubs 05-06-2021, 09:23 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Not all problems are created equal. If the new problems are a bit more manageable than the old ones..?;)
Forum: Lens Clubs 05-03-2021, 05:46 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
You're welcome: glad to be of help.

I've found that both thin DOF and donut bokeh are less of an issue when the main subject is a bit farther away, and when there's not as much separation between the subject and background (see geese, and guys on bridge above). Again, we can't always choose these things when we come across a subject we want to capture.

Good, strong light really helps a lot in focusing the dimmer f8 image in the viewfinder: if I was shooting from a tripod, I would use live view and peaking.
Forum: Lens Clubs 05-02-2021, 03:05 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
I don't have experience of conventional lenses longer than 300mm, so take what I say accordingly.

A mirror lens is different to handle. In the 500mm focal length range, it is certainly likely to be lighter to carry around, which sounds like it would be a plus for your situation. But not all mirrors are equal. I have a Russian MTO 1100mm mirror that doesn't see a lot of use because it's a heavy pig, and is hard to use without a tripod. I prefer hand held shooting, so that puts it lower on my "what willI shoot with today?" list.

But a mirror lens, unless you're shooting with a Minolta AF mirror lens or its Sony derivative, is also manual focus. This may change what you're able to shoot.

The fixed f8 aperture common on many 500mm mirror lenses makes it slower and dimmer than many conventional telephoto lenses of similar focal length. Combine that with MF, and again, there's likely going to be an impact on what you're going to be able to shoot. Faster moving subjects are going to be harder to capture quickly.

Donut bokeh, comes with the territory, but its impact can be reduced by careful selection of background. This is not always possible of course. We usually have to go where our subjects are and put up with whatever they happen to be in front of at the time. We don't always have the luxury of being able to choose a backdrop less likey to provoke donuts. If the subject is interesting, and the image well focused and composed, the presence of mirror lens bokeh shouldn't make or break an image. I can live with it if the final image is still sufficiently compelling. Unless you point it out, many viewers, particularly those who are not as photo-technically inclined, might not even notice it.

I usually have to bump contrast and brightness in post, but it's not a big deal.

I try to keep some guidelines in mind when I shoot with mirror lenses. Not that I haven't broken or ignored them, but when I do, it usually shows.

As much as possible, fill the image with your subject. A tight crop of a bird that was small to start with is unlikely to result in a satisfactory final image.

Shoot in bright light. Even with the excellent high ISO performance of recent cameras, cranking up the sensitivity too much to make up for poor lighting, is going to give you less than stellar pictures, with details lost to high ISO grain. Find your own ISO limit, and shoot within it. You can use faster shutter speeds like 1/800, or 1/1000 or faster (see below), but nice bright light is recommended. There's no free lunch.

Never having had a long conventional lens like your 150-500, I can't make a direct comparison. I've never really done a "scientific" comparison to see if my 55-300 cropped to the same FOV as my 500 mirror gives similar, better, or worse results. I usually have one or the other, not both, if I'm shooting tele in that range. I don't doubt that a fixed 300, or longer/better zoom would likely give better images than my 500 mirror, but I can't use what I don't have. I try to work within the limitations of the tools at hand. As I'm not likely to be soon (or ever) able to afford a better tele lens, I'm content to live with what I've got. When things work out, I'm happy with what I get. And for memories and record-keeping, sometimes a bad picture is better than none at all. So be it.

Many posts and articles online tend to scoff at mirror lenses, and certainly a bad mirror lens is not going to do you any favours. But, contrary to what some would have you believe, not all mirror lenses are bad. Looking at the best of the shots by mirror shooters in this thread can give you a taste of what's possible. As for my own recommendations, I've used the Tokina 500mm f8 and the Tamron 55BB 500mm f8 mirrors most extensively. My Russian mirror is a hangar queen, quietly sitting in its wooden box, awaiting the signal to scramble, which does not often sound. Of the two mirrors I've used most, I would give the Tamron the edge. There have been times when I have been truly, pleasantly surprised by what it can deliver. Here are a few examples I'm particularly pleased with, which I've posted previously, just so you can see what sort of result I'm happy with:

K-S2, 1/1000 sec, 200 ISO



K-S2, 1/1000 sec, 800 ISO




All of the following were taken on a KP at 1/2000 sec, 800 ISO:






100% of above:






100% of above:





The thing to figure out is if this move is going to be right for you. If you go in aware of a mirror lens's limitations, and you're willing to work within them, accepting whatever changes to shooting technique and subject matter it imposes, you're good. If you don't feel that any of these represent too much of a sacrifice, then I would certainly invite you to take the plunge. A good mirror lens is probably going to be cheaper than a good conventional telephoto, too. If it turns out that it doesn't give you satifaction, you haven't likely spent that much, though "that much" is going to vary for each of us. (If you go for a Tamron Adaptall, the fixed aperture means you can stick with a plain PK mount and not worry about looking for the pricier PK-A one.) In the end, if you're happy with the pictures you get, and it keeps you shooting, that's all that's important.

I hope you find this helpful, keeping in mind that free advice is often worth exactly what you paid for it!

Good luck with your research and decision.

Bruce
Forum: Lens Clubs 05-01-2021, 05:50 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Thanks! It really helped that he was sitting down having breakfast!
Forum: Lens Clubs 04-30-2021, 08:55 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
A pair of Cooper's Hawks have started nesting just half a block away from my front door. I'm hoping to get check in on them as weather and foliage permit, to see how they're doing. These are with my Tamron 55BB 500mm f8. Some are cropped a bit.










Forum: Lens Clubs 12-25-2020, 10:12 AM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Back when I was shooting Canon, I converted my Minolta MD mount Tokina 500/8 to M42, for which I already had an adapter to Canon EOS. Yes, pretty simple: it must have been for me to get it working!

Here's what I was able to do with it on my 20D:

Documentary



Poetry



I've since sold this modified lens on, preferring the performance of the Tamron 55BB.
Forum: Lens Clubs 11-30-2020, 06:34 AM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
It's an older MTO, I think. It came in a wooden case with a selection of huge filters for b&w shooting, and it looks like this: MTO 1000 10/1000 m42 mirror meniscus russian lens / top35mm.com
Forum: Lens Clubs 11-29-2020, 07:18 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
I've got a Russian 1000mm mirror thaT I have to take out to play. I just need the time and motivation to do it!
Forum: Lens Clubs 08-31-2020, 12:39 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Tamron 55BB 500mm f8




Forum: Lens Clubs 08-24-2020, 01:45 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Thanks!
Forum: Lens Clubs 08-24-2020, 11:23 AM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Some shots from my bike ride to work this morning. Tamron 55bb 500mm f8, with some cropping on most of them.

There's a vulture roost just around the corner from where I live. A couple of nights ago, there were at least two dozen of them in several trees. I thought I'd check to see if there were any there this morning.

Yes, there were!









Sleepy osprey:




Awake now:




And some using close focus:







100% of above. It isn't going to win any prizes from pixel peepers, but not bad at all.

Forum: Lens Clubs 08-14-2020, 11:41 AM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Nice shot! I've really got to use my Tamron 500 more often.
Forum: Lens Clubs 01-31-2020, 07:04 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Yes, my 55BB behaves much better in bright sunlight.

The cardinal and bunny are quite good.
Forum: Lens Clubs 12-30-2019, 03:07 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
I did something like that with a Tokina 500 mirror. I didn't even drill it; just used epoxy putty to attach the new mount.
Forum: Lens Clubs 12-18-2019, 11:24 AM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
You're welcome!
Forum: Lens Clubs 12-16-2019, 02:02 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
I remember a couple of years ago trying to get a moon shot with my K-S2 in live view. The image was just white, with no details until I switched to video mode, then I was seeing craters and maria. I fucused in video mode and the switched back to stills to actually shoot. I never understood (and never really bothered to figure out why) my live view behaved this way. I haven't really done much lunar photography since, but I wonder how my KP would respond. I've got 500mm and 1000mm mirrors I should try slapping on it...
Forum: Lens Clubs 10-07-2019, 09:58 AM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
As there's no aperture to control, you can get by without the A contacts and get a cheaper Tamron adapter.
Forum: Lens Clubs 10-05-2019, 06:57 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Good detail along the terminator. I'll have shoot the moon with my 55BB. After all, it's obligatory for a mirror lens!
Forum: Lens Clubs 10-03-2019, 07:49 AM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
That looks like a very small deer! Maybe this should be in the macro section...;)
Forum: Lens Clubs 09-24-2019, 12:27 PM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Here are some links to colourful moon images, including tips on how to shoot and process such shots:

Gallery Johannes Schedler

The Colors of the Moon
Shooting the Moon in colours - the RAW vs Jpeg lunar experiment.
Forum: Lens Clubs 09-09-2019, 07:35 AM  
The Mirror Lens Club!
Posted By Thagomizer
Replies: 1,242
Views: 468,379
Excellent shots! Looks like that lens has found the right home! The tripod mount and slide out hood are nice extras that the 55BB lack. I usually shoot hand held, but the mount would be nice. The slide out hood would be great to have as the screw-on one has to be screwed on and doesn't have a thread to keep it on the lens when it's reversed for storage or transport like the Tokina 500 mirror I used to have. It would be interesting to see the two Tamrons compared side by side.

Again, great shots!
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