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Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-07-2020, 10:04 AM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
The reason of the constant aperture is that a 100-400mm f4 lens for example can be used with both 1.4x and 2x TCs and still have very good tracking on some cameras.

At 400mm f4 with 1.4x TC = 560mm at f5.6 (110mm longer than 450mm from the Pentax 150-450mm at the same aperture).

400mm f4 with 2x TC = 800mm f8 (there are quite a few cameras these days that have more than 25 af points sensitive to f8 and you're have the option to track action with those af points).

But, it will be heavy and expensive such a lens... :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-07-2020, 08:00 AM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
The Canon 200-400mm f4 lens (the one with 1.4x TC built in) costs around 10000$. A 100-400mm f4 would probably cost 14000$. :D
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-06-2020, 02:29 PM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
I don't know if 5D Mark IV or EOS R fits in the "modern hi-res camera" category, but I have a few thousand portraits taken at f4 with the IS version of the 70-200mm f4 (the old one) if you want to see tack sharp images. :) I don't think I used that lens at f5.6+ more than a few occasions when I wanted different results. :)

Below just a few examples taken at f4 :)











It all depends on what you're going to shoot with a 70-200mm f2.8 lens. :) I found that the 70-200mm f2.8 is suited for indoor sports mostly or for some wildlife with a 2x TC... For weddings, corporate events or for portraits with inexperienced models is intimidating and also a distraction. The old Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 lens which is available in Pentax mount isn't comparable with the f4 Canon version in terms of af speed (the Canon lens blows the Tamron in this department) and color rendition. An f4 modern Pentax 70-200mm f4 should also outperform the old Sigma/Tamron f2.8 lenses in terms of overall performance. If you ask me, for day by day use a 70-200mm f4 is a workhorse that can give excelent results wide open. Instead of buying the Pentax 70-200mm f2.8 lens, if I had to choose, I would buy the f4 version and with the difference of money I will wait and buy the Pentax 85mm f1.4 for low light situations. :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-05-2020, 06:55 AM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
I don't like manual lenses at all, but you may try and pre-focus on a specific area based on anticipation. The DOF shouldn't be tiny as long as the players are not that close to you so you may end up with interesting images. :)



Renting is the best options if you really want to test a lens. Test charts and lab tests are pretty much useless compared to real tests in various lightning situations.



If you save 30$ each month, you may buy a Pentax 70-200mm f2.8 in 3-4 years instead of making plans based on Pentax roadmap. :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-05-2020, 05:46 AM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
That's my experience also.



Here is an image I took in 2013 with a Pentax K-5 II and the kit lens. I wasn't interested in sport or action back then and I didn't had at that time other lenses than the 50mm f1.8 and the 70mm f2.4. I was lucky enough to find a pro photographer who was shooting his daughter with a full frame and a f2.8 lens. He saw me struggling to get some shots and I still remember very clearly what he told me. He said:
1. get close to your subjects as much as you can
2. use the widest aperture you have on your lens because no one can't tell that your lens isn't very sharp wide open once you resize your images for social media
3. use long shutter speeds and think at your shots more; here I needed more details because in my mind long shutter speeds meant blurry images :D He told me to shoot when the players are high in the air and not when they are jumping because during the jump the players move at high speed but once they reach the maximum point of their jump, you have a split of a second to shoot using a longer shutter speed. :)

This image was taken at 21,25mm, 1/320s, f4, ISO 3200. I moved closer and instead of having f5.6 at 55mm I had f4 at 21mm (I gained one stop in terms of ISO by shooting at f4 instead of f5.6 and I saved a half of stop of ISO by using a longer shutter speed). I also took the shot when the players were "floating" and therefore I got away with a long shutter speed also. That being said, it was a pain in the ... to shoot the entire game like this and I think that it was the first time I understood that a faster lens would have been a lot better to get better shots. :)





Yes, 60-250mm is a slow lens and it has also focus breathing. The 50-135mm f2.8 is better in terms of focusing. The one main advantage of amateur photographers is that they don't have to deliver great images in order to get paid. Therefore, you can shoot as much as you like during a game. It's almost impossible to go home and realize you don't have at least 20-30 good action images to post online or to send to friends... I would rather have those 20-30 shots taken at ISO 3200 instead of ISO 12800. :)



I don't think we are arguing about a specific thing related to the upcoming Pentax 70-200mm f4. :) Reh321 thinks that the high ISO performance of a KP is good enough to replace a fast lens for indoor events of any kind (weddings or sports in this particular case) especially if someone is on a budget. I told him that with the same amount of money he spent on a new 55-300mm lens he would have had a lot better images in terms of noise and subject isolation by going to a second hand Pentax 50-135mm f2.8 or with a Tamron 70-200mm f2.8. He will always have a constant f2.8 aperture and he can get additional reach by using TCs. But he seems to enjoy shooting at ISO 6400 and 12800 most of the time with a slow lens due to the additional reach... :)



The pro photographers who are not replacing often their lenses usually don't use f4.5-f6.3 lenses either. :)

---------- Post added 01-05-20 at 12:56 PM ----------



The 50-135mm f2.8 isn't fast but isn't too slow either... I haven't used the 55-300mm f4.5-6.3 but if I would have to choose right now which lens I would pick for indoor sports, then my choice would be the f2.8 lens without hesitations. I've been surrounded by sport all my life due to the fact that my father was a soccer coach and my uncle was a judo coach. Like wildlife, once you learn your subjects (their behavior and start to anticipate the players moves, etc.) it becomes easier to get the shots you want in focus. But the f5.6 aperture will add a lot more noise over an f2.8 lens no matter what I do... :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-05-2020, 03:23 AM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
Let me quote you some pro sport photographers which I'm sure they are more experienced than both of us: :D

Quote no. 1 "If you are trying to photograph a sport with a smaller field of action (like basketball or hockey) you can most likely use a moderate zoom lens like the 70-200mm f2.8. Investing in a faster, f2.8 version of the 70-200mm really opens up possibilities for indoor sports"

Quote no. 2 "If you shoot a lot of indoor sports at high level (Division I college sports, professional sports and so on), you want to be properly equipped as well. The starting point for indoor sports like basketball is the 70-200mm f2.8 lens. If you shoot ice hockey or figure skating, for example, you may want also a little more telephoto power. The other pro-level powerhouse for indoor sports is the 300mm f2.8 lens. Another exquisite choice for low-light shooting is also the 200mm f2 lens. A full stop faster than any of the f2.8 alternatives, this lens is superb in terms of things like sharpness or focus speed."

Now, bare in mind that all of them are using high speed full frame cameras and they talk more about the focus speed and wide aperture than reach, as you keep telling me. :) Once they go to shoot outdoor low light sport, the 400mm f2.8 is the king as they say. So, when you tell me you need a 300mm focal lenght on a crop camera for indoor sports and you also tell me that even 300mm is not enough even when you have the option to move around... well, I can't agree with you.

Below are 2 images I took at Monte Carlo's Masters with a 70-200mm lens, both of them at 200mm and a crop from 30mp to 25mp (5mp).



Same row, different seat (my friends had seats 4-5m away from me, on my left and the guys sitting next to them were kind enough to exchange seats with me and my wife).



And here is the entire arena photographed at 17mm from my seat, to see the distance between me and Federer or Nadal. :)



A tennis court has a surface of 60 by 120 feet (18 by 37 m), including the additional clear space around the court. A basketball court has a surface of 50 by 94 feet (15.2 by 28.7 m). Based on the above images, the distance between me and the players, the focal length used by me (200mm on a full frame) and based on the recommandations of pro sport photographers from the above quotes in terms of the most used tele lenses indoors, my educated guess is that if you want to shoot indoor sports and you have a KP and 450-500$ for a lens, you are better served by a second hand Pentax 50-135mm f2.8 or by the heavier Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 than you're going to be with a new Pentax 55-300mm f/4.5-6.3 lens.

And again, if you shoot most of the time outdoor, with great light as I had at that tennis tournament I went, then a Pentax 55-300mm f/4.5-6.3 lens will be just fine.
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-04-2020, 08:06 PM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
From an amateur to another, you don't need 300mm on a crop camera for indoor sports unless you have big arenas and you stay put somewhere in the bleachers, far away from the field. :)

And from an amateur to another, I gave you a solution to the reach "problem" with a TC. You will still have an advantage in terms of ISO and subject isolation over a f6.3 lens at the long end.

But, if you like slow aperture lenses and high ISO all the time at indoor events (sport, weddings, parties, etc.), then I or anyone else can't convince you regarding the difference in the images between a slow and a fast lens mounted on the same camera. :) Maybe some day you're be able to rent one of the 2 lenses I mentioned above and see for yourself what is like to have proper lenses for specific situations without breaking the bank. :)

Even the upcoming Pentax 70-200mm f4 with a 1.4x TC will give you lower ISO and better subject isolation than a 55-300mm f4.5-f6.3. If I learned something during all these years is that lenses are a lot more important than cameras... This is the reason why I said that if the price and weight difference are not big between lenses, I will always go with the faster lenses that can be used if needed with TCs and keep the aperture wider than f4.5-f6.3 lenses. :) With a slow lens I can't have f2.8 no matter what I do. :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-04-2020, 07:10 PM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
Any modern 70-200mm f4 lens should be better than Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 or than Pentax 50-135mm f2.8 in terms of overal performance (af, chromatic aberations, etc.). :) But I don't think it will cost under 1000$. I would be fine with the price, but others may find it expensive and Reh321 is an example in this regard.

---------- Post added 01-05-20 at 02:18 AM ----------



I don't think you understood me because I said twice that you don't have to spend more money to get better shots. You just have to replace the 55-300mm lens on your KP with a second hand Pentax 50-135mm f2.8 if you shoot indoor sports and you are on a budget. :) If you mainly shoot outdoor, in daylight (street, cityscape, birds sitting on branches, etc.) then you don't need an f2.8 lens.

Personally, if I have to spend the same amount of money, I would always buy the faster lens, especially if the weight difference is small. An f2.8 lens will be razor sharp at f5.6 or f6.3 compared to a lens that is at f5.6 or f6.3 wide open. :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-04-2020, 06:54 PM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
You can always use Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 instead of 50-135mm f2.8 for extra reach on APS-C. Both of these 2 lenses are quite cheap second hand. Even with a 1.4x TC you're going to be at f4 and you gain at least one stop of light over the 55-300mm that has an f6.3 aperture at 300mm. :)

---------- Post added 01-05-20 at 01:58 AM ----------



Then it seems that you agree with me, that for indoor sports there are better options than a 55-300mm lens, especially if the budget is not affected. You can always add a 1.4x TC or a 2x TC on a 50-135mm f2.8 lens and get a longer focal lenght when needed, but you can't go below f4.5 on a 55-300mm lens. :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-04-2020, 06:48 PM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
No, I haven't. And I don't have to use one in this particular case given my previous comment. But you can convince me very easily that you are right by posting here 2 images taken with your KP in the same conditions:
1. Image one taken by your KP at f5.6, 1/500s, ISO 12800 on a subject standing at 7-10m distance, with a busy background at 6-8m behind your subject.

2. Image two taken by your KP at f2.8, 1/500s, ISO 3200 on a subject standing at 7-10m distance, with a busy background at 6-8m behind your subject.

When the ISO 12800 image will look better than the one taken at ISO 3200 and considering that you spend the same amount of money on the gear I mentioned in the other comment, then I will believe everything you're further going to say on this subject (indoor sport on a budget). :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-04-2020, 05:33 PM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
I do miss from time to time my K-5 II which in my opinion was a better camera than K-3 II which I also owned (for my needs, at that time). I also used K1 enough to know its strenghts and also its weaknesses (again, for my needs). In terms of lenses, I used the f2.8 trinity on my friend's K1 and quite a few lenses on my K-5 II and K-3 II, with DA 21mm and DA 70mm being my favorite ones after I decided to use primes instead of zooms.

At f5.6 or f6.3 and with a shutter speed of 1/500s or faster you're be lucky to be at ISO 12800 at local indoor sports with a 55-300mm lens. :) I think I do have on my hard drives a few volleyball images taken with K-5 II at a college game, most of them taken at f2.8 and ISO 4000-5000.

A second hand Pentax 50-135mm lens costs pretty much the same as a new Pentax 55-300mm. There are a few on Ebay and I'm sure that can be found here also at good prices. Again, for indoor sports on a budget reach is not that important as a fast lens that can be bought second hand. What I'm trying to say is that with the same amount of money you spend on a KP with a new 55-300mm lens you can get a KP with a second hand Pentax 50-135mm f2.8 and instead of getting acceptable images at f5.6 or f6.3 and at ISO 12800 (with a lot of things in focus also due to small distances between the subject and the background), you can get better images at f2.8, ISO 4000 and with the subject isolated from the crowd (or background).

Not even KP with a standard zoom lens can't match an image taken at ISO 12800 and an aperture of f5.6 with an image taken with KP, K-5 II/K-5 IIs or K-S2 for example at ISO 3200, f2.8. :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-04-2020, 04:27 PM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
First of all, my comment was related to your print screen of that pro photographer. :)

Second... I use my 70-200mm f4 lens a lot and it's a wonderful lens due to size, weight and versatility. So, I'm sure that the Pentax 70-200mm f4 lens would be very well received by photographers.

But for parents/amateurs that shoot sports indoor I rather tell them to buy a second hand Pentax 50-135mm f2.8 lens or a Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 lens rather than a new Pentax 55-300mm lens that combined with a crop camera will give them high ISO images most of the time. Not to mention that the lightning is not great either in high school sports holl so you can maximize your results by using fast f2.8 lenses, even if you are on a budget. :) And shooting at f2.8 has another great benefit: it will improve a lot your technique because it's not easy to shoot at wide apertures with tele lenses. :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 01-04-2020, 03:10 PM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
It's a big difference between:
- shooting action at 24mm
and
- shooting action at 200mm, 300mm or 400mm...

Quite different stories... Wide-angle lenses let you exaggerate the depth of the scene and are often used by sport photographers for some artistic images. Once you go back to tele lenses, pro sport photographers are using the f2.8 big lenses for the reasons I told you above. If you don't believe me just go to a pro sport competition and you will see pro sport photographers with 70-200mm f2.8, 300mm f2.8 or with 400mm f2.8 on fast cameras, on monopods. You won't see them with 70-200mm f4, 300mm f4 or 400mm f4 lenses. :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 12-22-2019, 11:00 AM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
You don't buy a 70-200mm f2.8 lens to shoot with it most of the time at f4 or f5.6. If you use such apertures most of the times, then the 70-200mm f4 lenses are sharp enough at f4, are lighter, smaller and cheaper than the f2.8 equivalent lenses. :) I told you a few comments back with examples also that when you need to shoot wide open (f1.4, f1.8, f2.8) you do it for 3 reasons:

1. Subject isolation
2. Maintaining ISO as low as possible
3. To use high shutter speeds than when you shoot with f4 lenses

No modern camera will manage to give you better results by shooting at ISO 6400 and f4 instead of 3200 and f2.8. Not to mention if you get paid for those images. :) An international sport photographer (I can't remember his name right now) was asked why he uses the gear he uses (flagship full frame with 16-35mm f2.8, 70-200mm f2.8, 200mm f2, 300mm f2.8 and 400mm f2.8). He said:
- I need to use high shutter speeds to freeze the action
- I want to keep ISO as low as posible for best quality
- I don't get paid to shoot (to get in the frame) commercial banners that are placed all over and therefore I isolate the athletes by using wide apertures.

If I find the article I will post it here. The same applies at weddings or anywhere a fast lens is typically used. :)
Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 11-28-2019, 01:07 PM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
It depends a lot on the conditions available in location. Fast lenses on cameras that have af system sensitive to f1.2 or to f2.8 tend to focus faster than slow lenses. And for weddings or events you don't have the luxury to shoot at f3.5 or at f5.6 most of the time, at least in Romania. Take this image for example. It was taken with a full frame at 85mm, f1.8, ISO 6400, 1/80s. If I would have used an f4 lens, my ISO would have been too high...



Or take this example where I was using 70-200mm f2.8 at 155mm, f2.8, ISO 5000, 1/200s.





Are you sure about this? :)



Are you sure he or she was a pro? :)



I know from experience also that at events you go with 2 cameras, each one with a different lens. There isn't the option for a photographer who know what he is doing to shoot with a "too long" or with a "too wide" lens. Once you enter in the event location you know which lenses are going to be used. For group shots you can shoot with pretty much any wide lens because you go for an aperture between f4 and f7.1 to get all the people in focus, especially if they are arranged in 2 lines. But most of the time you shoot at fast apertures due to:
- subject isolation
- ISO (modern cameras have good ISO, but it's not fun to shoot and edit a entire wedding taken at f4 or f5.6 and ISO between 6400 and 12800 or more)



She lost a bet or something? :D

---------- Post added 11-28-19 at 08:15 PM ----------



That's the reason I have 70-200mm f4L IS and the 16-35mm f4L lenses. For outdoor shootings these f4 zoom lenses are great.

This was taken with 70-200mm f4, at 155mm, f4, 1/200s, ISO 100.



This was taken at 16mm, f8, ISO 100, 1/400s. For this kind of images I don't need f1.2 or f2.8 lenses. :)



There are also situations where I do want to use f4 lenses instead of faster lenses, like the below example. I was shooting for a popular restaurant in Bucharest and I wanted the name of the restaurant to be seen in the image, so I went for the 70-200mm f4 lens instead of the 85mm f1.4 lens because it gave me more flexibility and it was also lighter. At f1.4 the name of the restaurant wouldn't have been visible at all. I was lucky to have a big window behind me and the light was very good.

Forum: Pentax News and Rumors 11-27-2019, 03:42 PM  
New zoom 70-200 F4
Posted By Dan Rentea
Replies: 1,185
Views: 114,141
I have the same feeling when people say they will never use the f1.2 or the f1.4... :D Love the f4 lenses for lots of things: they are small, light, sharp wide open, without CA... But in certain situations the f1.2 lenses or the f2.8 lenses are needed. :)
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