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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-31-2020, 05:39 PM
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I have also never done a proper Singles In challenge, but that's usually because I might have a genuine job in a month that I have to break away and use different array of lenses on my camera. But still... when I do get a new lens it typically is on the camera non stop for at least 2 weeks, it seemed natural to put it through its paces and see where it shines etc.
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-31-2020, 02:36 AM
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Yes, that's a good point, certain genres can be very difficult to obtain any decent results due to the nature of the shot. Fortunately us human beings are slightly more approachable (tho I'd suspect the odd budgie shot could still be pulled off with a 10mm :D)
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-31-2020, 01:35 AM
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Excellent!
Well... I don't mean for it to be about battles and sides, I just mean for things to be clarified. If I can learn something then I want to learn, but I'm 42yrs old and thus far (in many fields as well as photography) I think we do ourselves a disservice by bowing down to previous ideas or establishments etc.
Sometimes there is so much more to the photograph as well. You can be shooting for one reason (landscape lets say) and then a portrait moment unfolds and you just have to capture that moment quickly! The lens swap kills it all, so you make do with what you had on your camera and prioritise the moment over focal length choice (i.e. it's not 'poor photography'). Lot's of these issues are not permissible to the viewer, only the photographer is privy to such information such as moment unfolding, environment restrictions so on so forth. Lots of photos are about compromise, funds can limit lens choices as well! You could say the same for post processing, at some point you have to deal with an edit and move on, not nitpick for centuries, there is no such thing as perfection or perfect, just degrees of acceptable.
I just keep it simple. No rules, call a spade a spade, if the shot (whatever it is) is of value then Idgaf what camera and lens it was shot with! I don't like traditions for the sake of traditions, that for me is narrow minded and a form of control. I like some traditions (Burn's Night for example!) but in artistic pursuits I think it can be a bit dodgy...
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-30-2020, 11:43 PM
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What you're saying is contradicting yourself.
"the 12-24 is not a portrait lens"
But you know its ok if its not the norm...
Well of course that goes without saying... you make it sound like people do portraits only with 12-24's lol, or fisheyes. There's a time for 200mm portraits, 135, 85, 77, 50, 43, 35, 28, 20, etc etc. I never said otherwise.
Like I said, I find your comments trollish because you backtrack on what you say. I have to admit I'm pretty close to blocking you and I haven't blocked anyone ever before. The worst thing of all is I cannot know if I should even listen to anything you have to say seriously because I haven't seen any of your work! Are you one of those people that just talk and have nothing of your own to produce/contribute? I can admit I can even learn something even from a complete beginner (fresh insights etc), but typically I take cc most seriously from the peers whom I feel their work is superior. Right now you just confuse me and come across as trollish, it's slightly frustrating, confusing, time wasting and annoying tbh.
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-30-2020, 05:57 PM
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I guess that's where we differ, I don't subscribe to rules or traditions. There's no such thing, it's just someones opinion (yours apparently). I have seen plenty fun and interesting distorted portraits (fisheye for example) that I rate highly. You best not visit a hall of mirrors at a funfair... it's not accurate representation of a person :D :p
Photography is ART, art has no boundaries and often certain techniques that serve well for one purpose do not serve well in another. New techniques and ideas have come from breaking rules and trying something different. You cannot have it all sometimes, portraits are not (always) just a photograph of a person, they vary massively and sometimes context is needed for the shot and certain FL can assist with bringing that about. It's not poor photography, its artistic choice. Head shots, torso shots, full body, environmental portrait. You cannot always do it with restricting yourself to a certain focal length and saying "woah... I better not.. it's a 12-24.." that to me is silly.
Think about the FA ltds as well, considered to being superb portrait lenses. Have you ever Lens Corrected and removed the distortion from these shots? It's horrific! 90% of the magic disappears once distortion is corrected! Distortion exists in photography, accept it. Call a spade a spade, you might not have liked the 12-24 shot of you at Sydney that I took (because it made you look chubby :p) but that doesn't mean the focal length or lens is wrong for every portrait shot used with that lens (just look above and I think you will see plenty of shots used with people posing or in action that are working just fine with whatever distortion it brought), just blame me for doing what you think of as a poor shot, but don't box yourself into thinking that there are rules and traditions and such, that stuff is total bs and will absolutely stifle creativity.
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-30-2020, 12:11 PM
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Every lens is a portrait lens :)
(thinking indifferent is just caging creativity)
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-30-2020, 04:03 AM
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Bahha! So I guess all the party portrait shots are fails too... heheh you're too funny, best troll I know <3 :lol::D
(thanks for the compliment, and yes I'm of course just joking)
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-26-2020, 11:09 PM
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-20-2020, 12:10 AM
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Some more shots of the DA 12-24 on the K-1 in FF mode;
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-05-2020, 10:43 PM
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Why's that then? I thought it had great reviews all round? The only thing that puts me off about it is the size of it.
Youtu.be
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-05-2020, 09:15 PM
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They are roughly equivalent, lacking in megapixels obviously, but the points still stand because... physics. However I do take on board your point, which is why I hardly ever choose to use my K-1 in Crop mode when I have a 24mp KP right next to me, it's a just better overall result.
I just find it oddly perplexing that everyone is quite happily applying the 1.5x
Respectfully disagree.
It does make sense from an overall image perspective. It's ok to think;
'it's exposing like a f4 aperture, but presenting a DoF akin to what f6 looks like on FF, which happens to be the camera I use the most', it really just depends on your view point. If you think there is little to no difference between f4 and f6, or f2.8 and f4.2 then yes we will go round and round in circles. The point I made earlier is I think at the very wide apertures (f1.4-2) the differences are not as large as say f2.8-4.2 or f4-6.
The viewer of a photograph does not care about what available light you had to work with to begin with, it just cares about the large stuff first such as the content and whether the photograph sufficiently used focus in combination with aperture (DoF) to assist with the message/content. Some content is landscape, and the intent/message is to have the entire scene in focus from near to far. Some shots are environmental portrait, its about giving the primary focus to the person and secondary to the environment, some shots are all about the subject and we want very little context.
And no, that is not the same at all, that's an entirely different perspective and framing to the shot. If I then took my FF camera and moved to the same framing position as to what crop mode captures, but this time remain in FF and take the shot again... uhuh... exactly.
I'll try not to derail this thread any further from this topic matter. A more recent thread was started here (by me) and you're welcome to bump it with further questions or opinions;
Do we calculate Aperture to when using FF lenses on Crop Bodies? - PentaxForums.com |
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-05-2020, 05:34 PM
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All of what you have said is true it is an impressive lens. I'm just saying its slightly odd to use a lens on a crop body where the designers went full on hard core to give the lens on the platform it was intended (ff) to have edge sharpness. Funny to think on crop that you never take advantage of that 'hard to get' lens attribute, I can hear the designers crying in the corner :lol::D
On crop the DFA50 is a 75/2.1, on FF it's a 50/1.4. One could argue a FA77 on the K-1 is a worthy comparison to a DFA50 on a crop, they would both be used for similar purposes sharing similar FoV and DoF.
I do love crop bodies, I don't want to be seen as a naysayer to crop. I just feel my experience to date (owning both FF and crop) is that FF lenses are better on FF bodies, because they were developed that way. However the opposite isn't actually true when it comes to crop lenses. If you can get away with using a crop lens on a FF body (in FF mode obviously) then it shines even more, at least this is what I have found with the HD DA 20-40 and DA 12-24. Of course some crop lens glass is not compatible, but... if you can get away with it, even at certain focal lengths, then it's definitely worth considering (just because a lot of the glass for K-1 is so damn expensive).
One thing I have noticed, people are not applying the 1.5x to the aperture enough when considering glass (and only applying 1.5 to the focal length for FoV FF equivalence). An HD DA 15/4 is really behaving like a 22.5/6 FF lens! Tell me when the last time you saw a FF prime lens selling with 22.5/6 traits? Even 22.5/4? Yes of course, the light coming in and exposure is the same as f4, but the DoF and how the image is presented is f6, that's pretty limiting in it's applications.
This is why I think when crop users whom do put fast glass (like 1.4) on their cameras they get ecstatically impressed because the 1.5x magnifier at these fast apertures doesn't affect massively so. 1.4 = 2.1, there is not a huge difference between those apertures, both 1.4 and 2.1 is well within bokeh dreamland :lol:
However, f2.8 is effectively f4.2, that's quite a bit different (imo), so all the f2.8 crop glass is rendering bokeh like a f4.2 FF lens. The HD DA 20-40 on crop is effectively a 30-60/4.2-6 lens, 60mm.. f6.... ouch, there goes a lot of bokeh. (and the aperture leaves f2.8 quite quickly on the 20-40, @24mm we're up to f3.5 already..
I even tested the HD DA 20-40 on my K-1 set to show this difference;
K-1 + HD DA 20-40 Crop Mode
23mm Crop mode, f2.8.
This is equivalent to 34.5mm in FF mode. f2.8 is behaving more like f4.2 here also.
K-1 + HD DA 20-40 FF Mode
36mm, FF mode, f4.
Similar to the crop mode but even though the aperture is more stopped down than the crop modes 23/2.8 version it's still a little more pronounced bokeh, perhaps accounting for the roughly 0.2 aperture difference. Exposure is also slightly darker.
Comparing the two, even though the camera stayed the same position each shot, framing almost exactly the same, I do much prefer the FF shot, the bokeh is more pleasing, better subject isolation, the exposure just needs lifted slightly perhaps It's not even a huge difference in aperture either, 0.2 difference? Clearly 'more stuff' is going on here but I think the point still stands.
And then of course using the same lens at 23/2.8 in FF mode on the K-1... well its doing something entirely different than the same lens on its rightful crop body home can never do. All ye bow and praise FF! :lol: :D
In summary, I'm not sure I'll ever buy a f2.8 or f4 lens for crop bodies ever again, its just too slow with not enough DoF variance for me to play with (thankfully the ones I do own play nicely with the K-1). Aiming for f1.2-1.9 glass for crop bodies is a good idea I think, it puts you in a place that is closer to what FF cameras and lenses are achieving and you can always stop down more if you want, the real point is you cannot make the lens faster than what it can do, but you can make it slower. FF gives additional advantage to this fact.
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-05-2020, 04:14 PM
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Were you using the 12-24 on K-1 as well (ff mode)?
I hear a lot of people feeling indifferent about the 31 between the two bodies. I think that's because it tips over into two different 'genres'. On FF the 31 is the beginnings of being a wild angle, the start of a landscape lens, but also still portrait, on crop it becomes a more straight up portrait lens. The 31 on the K-1 becomes a super duper 'environmental portrait' lens, something that gets you the person and where they are in one shot (street photography etc), on crop not quite so much but instead concentrates to being a classic portrait (effectively behaving like a 46.5/2.7 FF portrait lens).
I firmly believe much of the goodness in lenses actually is at the edges, and with FF glass on crop bodies you're missing that. Someone I know recently bought a DFA50 for their K-70. I find that a perplexing buy indeed. Why the DFA costs so much in the first place is that the edges of the lens are sharp, yet on a crop body yer basically throwing away $$ by never taking advantage of that (you never see the true edge). I mean ok, maybe that sounds harsh, I mean they still get a nice fifty, AW, Quick Shift, Silent AF, good AF etc, but still... one of the major optical benefits of the lens is a FF FoV with really good edge sharpness at wide open apertures.
I feel similarly about the FA Ltds (and the Tak 50). Although not having sharp edges, there is wonderful magic happening throughout the frame, from centre to edges. Watch the magic disappear when you apply lens correction to a f2 shot with a FA ltd. Optically flawed glass? Yep, but with that flawness comes some beautiful rendering. I'm starting to believe you can't have it both ways, the DFA 50 is clinical and perfect, but I'm not feeling the magic quite so much, the FA ltds flawed but they do have magic. I'd prefer to use a DFA 50 for product photography however, you need that hardcore clinical perfection for that genre.
I only care about edge sharpness when it matters, I don't care if the edges are soft if there is not a primary focus there. A straight up centre portrait shot, who cares if the oof edges are sharp or soft?! In cases like this it's not important at all. Going back to @beachgardener recommendations for a 35mm, the Sigma 35/1.4 Art is probably the best 35mm for Pentax if considering edge sharpness is important (which it can be for groups if you're struggling to squeeze them into the frame and want good subject isolation).
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-05-2020, 03:40 AM
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DFA 15-30 would be the obvious choice would it not? Man I just can't afford that lens... :(
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-05-2020, 02:23 AM
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What you don't see is where I am standing, I cannot back up further. There should be a reason why a photographer decides to use a certain focal length for the shot, if indeed fixed should move their person. This was of course not the only group shot of the day, 28mm, 31mm, 35mm, 43mm, they can all do great group portrait shots should the environment allow it. This being a 12-24 thread specifically relating to the K-1 in FF mode I wanted to show a shot, something that showed it's maximum range (this was pretty much as wide as you can go before vignette hits in bad). Portrait shots come in all shapes and sizes, some are about the people first and foremost, and the environment they are in definitely takes a back seat. Some are about the people and where they are, that too can hold immense value and perhaps with certain focal lengths (and constricted space) a 35mm would do that injustice. Which is why I tend to do more than one kind of group shot on the day, closer ones in, and some further back. I give the client a choice of which to choose (and they pay per shot) and they (thus far) always choose both :) $$
Using the HD DA 20-40 on the K-1 in FF mode I was set to 23mm. I felt I wanted to really include the entire group (far right women in blue as well), as well as include the whole of the tree. My vantage point for this shot was a large tree stump that I clambered up onto. Setting to 35mm for example would not have been a good choice for this shot. The same is true for the second shot below (taken again at 23mm);
The 35mm I am really gunning for is the FA31, however I am still waiting for Pentax Forums to do a review of the new HD FA35/2, and would even love a real head to head review of it against the FA31. There is also a Tak 35 however that I might grab as well, if its as good as its reputation suggests, group portrait work can often be stopped down anyway, so manual focusing might not be so intimidating if not using super wide apertures for those important paid shots.
Thanks.
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-04-2020, 03:48 PM
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Is the Vivitar AF? That was a must for me, I already have some 24mm manual focus glass, I was really lacking something in this range for portrait use and needed AF (for flash as well).
Yes I have heard that is a good lens. Is it f4 or 2.8?
I doubt I'd pick it up, now that I have the DA 12-24, 20-24mm is actually the focal lengths I would be using it for the most for work.
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Here's a couple more of the DA12-24 on K-1 in FF mode;
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-04-2020, 01:12 AM
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-03-2020, 06:21 PM
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No thank you Gary for steering us back on course :D
Yes the DA 12-24 has quick shift.
I'll be sure to check out that album, thanks Gary!
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-03-2020, 04:35 PM
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Not a problem.
Professionals make LUTS, for themselves and if they're good they sell them to people like me who have either not got the skill set to make their own, nor the time. $20 for a pack of 10 LUTS, seems reasonable from a professional outfit. One day I hope to have the time as well to make my own.
Some LUTS can seem a little crazy, but in the right genre they can be wonderful, for example these tones might not work so well for portrait but worked quite well for this shot;
RNI are experts in film simulation for digital, so if you use Pentax, use old lenses, their presets can do wonderfully to drive that vibe home. I think the trick is knowing your own presets and LUTS (that takes time) and then going out and shooting with those renders in mind (ie knowing what kind of look you want in your mind and knowing you can drive that message with what tools you have at home).
For me, photography is 80% tog + rendering skills and 20% gear. I could switch brands or systems here, pick up a K-01 or K-50 and still be putting out similar images, I bet no one would even notice I changed.
Funny to think how many users will happily spend thousands on new gear and yet still put out the same ol same, but the very thought of spending similar money to improve your PP skills is somehow heresy. I still have so many bought and paid for PP tutorials yet to watch, something I am looking forward to sinking my teeth into this holiday/2020.
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-03-2020, 03:29 PM
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Got any samples of that lens for us to have a peek at? Really I couldn't say no to this deal I scored for the 12-24. It goes for over $1K(AUD) new and I got a mint copy (basically used a handful of times) for only $400AUD. I have the KP as well so knew that if the results were less than stella on the K-1 then the KP would still have a friend.
What I really like about using Crop lenses on FF mode (if you can get away with it) is that the DoF becomes way more pronounced and I feel offers a few more applications to the lens than what their intended home can achieve. I illustrated this recently with the HD DA 20-40 and DA 12-24 on the K-1 tripodded and comparing between crop mode and FF mode. Focus is on the blue bauble
K-1 + DA 12-24, Crop Mode
Shot at 14mm in crop mode, this gives a 21mm equivalent in FF mode, shot f4, but is presenting more like what a f6 shot would be like on FF.
K-1 + DA 12-24, FF Mode
Shot at 21mm in FF mode, f4, notice how now the out of focus areas are more pronounced due to 'really being f4', whereas f4 on crop bodies is behaving more like f6 for FF.
One more from a recent gig;
Pushing it a bit at 19mm here, but the distortion is not too bad. We liked the context of the shot, a close group of friends with their bairns, the two fellas on the verandah, all of the house in the shot as well as the cute foreground tree thingy. Neat that this can be done. Just a shame the sky wasn't a little bit 'happier' but at least it has texture.
Thanks heaps for the compliment, much appreciated.
This year I've done more professional jobs and have taken time to reflect on my workflow and how I can improve upon my efficiency. The main hurdle I have right now is at what time to employ the 'style' of the shot (including monochroming a shot). When you work for someone else it can be important to be flexible, you might think mono is best for this shot, you may have even deliberately taken the shot at the time with settings biased towards a favourable mono outcome, but if you deliver the mono to the client and they want colour... then... yeh.
Most of my work this year stemmed from getting a style/look first and then doing some of the harder photoshop stuff after (like advanced cloning/skin fixing). The problem with this is two things;
1) the skin work is applied to the style. so if you want to go back and change the style it also means repeating the skin work (ZZz....)
2) If you do it the other way around and apply the more advanced PS skin work first and deciding on style after then you're working on a TIFF file, and the (bought) tools available in LR to use to assist with styling are not playing ball so nicely in this regard.
If you really want to go down this rabbit hole you're welcome to watch a couple of recent vids I put out on this specific topic (as I was reaching out for help/advice);
Part 1;
Youtu.be
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Part 2;
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So currently I am trialling this workflow, its not 100% complete, such as when I backup is left out, but this is more of a workflow chart from the time i eject the sd cards from the camera (top left) and export the image for the client or myself. The drawback is definitely doing the style after and not having it as accurate as intended and perhaps steering the TIFF file version more towards its DNG counterpart (but that's probably the lesser of two evils);
So yeah, a large part of the look my images have will be in part due to presets and 3Dluts, how they are applied, what intensity, opacity and such.
Thank you Terry.
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
01-01-2020, 02:33 AM
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I've since acquired the 12-24 and have been using it in FF mode on the K-1. Not bad at all, a few samples;
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
03-15-2019, 08:57 PM
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Yeah I thought of that, they are kinda hard to come by. I'd appreciate the consistent F4 across the frame, and by all accounts the 12-24 is sharp wide open at F4. Comparing with the FAJ 18-35 would be interesting to see. Of course the 12-24 has Quickshift as well, a nice touch.
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Forum: Pentax SLR Lens Discussion
03-15-2019, 06:03 PM
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I gather this lens is actually compatible with the K-1 from around 16-24mm. That's kinda attractive being a KP/K-1 kinda guy. I could see me using it on both systems from time to time. What does seem to be hard to find however is the performance of the lens on the K-1 at 18-24mm, specifically comparing with a crop lens at equivalent ranges.
Example, tripod up the KP or K3, use the 12-24 at 12-16mm (equivalent to using at 18-24), take some shots (f4, f8 etc). Then take the KP/K3 off, put on the K-1 and use at 18mm-24mm, test at same apertures. The should both offer similar if not identical field of views, one 24mp the other 36mp. How do they compare? Sometimes when these lenses are ff they do poor, other times the additional resolution is welcome!
Anyone have this lens with a crop body and ff sensor to compare? Anyone just simply got ff shots with the 12-24 to share? It seems actually quite hard in the K-1 line up to get a lens from 18-24mm that is reasonably priced and has AF, which is part of my attraction to seeking out this lens in the future.
TIA!
Bruce
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