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Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-14-2020, 08:15 AM  
Pause after shot with 645N?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 19
Views: 786
Are you relying on your ears so to speak to detect the increase in the pause? Does this increase in the pause last from the mid-roll to the end or does it get better towards the end of the roll?

Once you have taken the last shot is there the same length of pause and once it begins winding the roll to the end is this continuous without hesitation at all?


It might be worth using a stop watch to time each frame wind-on to be certain that there is a definite difference in the wind-on time as the roll is used up.

You'd need a stop watch that works in at least tenths of a second and one hundredths might be better.

How many rolls have been through the camera since you discovered the fault? Is it getting better, worse or no change? If I had a scrap 120 roll I'd try this myself and report back with my findings but I don't and currently I don't have a film loaded.


Maybe others with scrap rolls could try their cameras' hesitation to compare notes If no-one volunteers then you might seek out a few film P645 users from the forum and seek their views via a PM

Finally a long shot but have you examined your insert to see if there could be anything in it that is causing this moment's hesitation

I am out of suggestions now, short of the usual one of taking or sending it to a qualified repairman and seeking help there

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-12-2020, 07:38 AM  
Why so many used Pentax 645 220 inserts for sale?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 31
Views: 1,239
I was puzzled by what effect the difference in thicknesses between the 220 and 120 plates have on the camera motor in terms of strain. Let me explain:

It appears according to the person(Lightproof, I think was his name) who showed us the pictures of the two plates that the 220 plate has no lip at its edge. It is a flat plate. This 220 plate is the same thickness as the edge of the 120 plate which is raised very slightly everywhere else so the vast bulk of the 120 plate where I assume the film and most of the backing paper is, is in fact thicker than the 220 plate .

Now for assumptions on my part. If the 220 plate is thinner than the 120 plate except for the 120's edge lip then doesn't this mean that a converted 220 plate is exerting less pressure on the 120 film as it is wound through? So less strain on the camera's motor?

I may have fundamentally misunderstood the "mechanics" of how a thinner 220 plate when it is converted to 120 does then create extra strain on the motor

So I'd be glad if anyone can point out where my thinking is flawed

Thanks

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-11-2020, 05:24 AM  
Pause after shot with 645N?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 19
Views: 786
Have your tried a fresh set of batteries yet? It's worth a shot. Even if it makes no difference you can always swop back to your existing batteries and keep the new ones in reserve. Just a very long shot but are your current batteries sourced from a reliable company such as Duracell or other recognised battery company?

I once bought a set of batteries from a seller on a market stall. They were incredibly cheap and they worked fine at first but within maybe a week they lost power and were useless very soon after.

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-09-2020, 03:46 PM  
645 needed
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 8
Views: 392
Thanks, Pal, so if the OP goes for a P645 which only takes 15 frames he avoids the problem and likewise he can avoid the problem by the custom function which allows a choice of 15 or 16 frames?

I am still a little puzzled, The insert as far as I am aware is the same for the P645 the P654N and the P645NII so the backwards bend in where the roll of film actually bends is the same as the insert is the same so I assume that in the bigger gaps created when there are only 15 frames the part of the film where bend is moves beyond the actual picture frame each time whereas the shorter distance moved each time in a 16 frame insert means that each frame will have a potential flatness problem? I would not have thought that the saving of one frame over a roll was enough to space the frames out sufficiently to avoid the bend being on the part of the film where the picture is but there we are

Whether this bend problem reveals itself might depend on how quickly the film is used and/or depends as you say on temperature .

I have to say that in my P645N I often have a long time between frames. Days or even weeks sometimes but I haven't see this lack of flatness.

I did a bit of research and there was a thread on one of the other forums namely Photo net. Like any other forum a few expressed the view that in theory film flatness may be a problem in theory but no-one seemed to have experienced it. One person said that he had exposed over 500 rolls and was yet to see it and another said that he has used the P645N over many years and without issue so he regarded the story as a myth. One person mentioned that Pentax had recognised the problem hence the 15/16 choice on the NII but he gave no link to the source in which Pentax had admitted there was a problem

However you have had the problem so for you it did exist. I don't suppose that long after discontinuation of the P645N we are ever likely to find out exactly what Pentax said about this and in particular what it might have said about what conditions such as temperature and time between frames that it occurs

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-09-2020, 03:04 PM  
Pause after shot with 645N?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 19
Views: 786
Thanks Steve I had no idea that such a resource existed. Is this a separate website or is there a way from this forum to the manuals?

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-09-2020, 01:53 PM  
645 needed
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 8
Views: 392
Jeremy as you haven't asked about where to buy a P645N this question may be irrelevant but in case sources for the P645N is of value it might help if you say where you are based i.e. the U.K., somewhere in Europe. the U.S. or somewhere else in the World

Thanks

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-09-2020, 01:16 PM  
Pause after shot with 645N?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 19
Views: 786
Yes and it is worth getting an instruction manual for it which explains a lot about how to operate the camera

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-09-2020, 10:27 AM  
645 needed
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 8
Views: 392
Can you say what it is about taking 15 as opposed to 16 frames that improves flatness and are we talking about all of the frames so that in a P645N all of the frames will have less flatness than on the P645N II?

Do you know what Pentax actually said about this? Is there a Pentax announcement on this?

Thanks

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-09-2020, 09:06 AM  
645 needed
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 8
Views: 392
What is it about the NII that means the film is flatter?

Thanks

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-09-2020, 09:02 AM  
Pause after shot with 645N?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 19
Views: 786
It might depend on what you mean by a delay. My P654N does not wind-on instantly as if it was a machine gun or possibly at the speed that say a Nikon F5 might wind on but there is not a noticeable delay. What seems key to me is: has the camera wind-on delay changed and is this change only intermittent i.e. sometimes there is no delay. If the time that one film winds on between frames does noticeably vary from frame to frame then there might be an issue. As far as the battery is concerned, there is a low battery indicator which shows well before the batteries are almost flat. If that is not showing then I doubt if the batteries have anything to do with what might not be a problem anyway

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 11-08-2020, 12:30 PM  
Why so many used Pentax 645 220 inserts for sale?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 31
Views: 1,239
I participated in the thread to which reference was made and frankly no final conclusion was reached nor do I think that anyone had any evidence that the 220 to 120 conversion had done any harm. Some 2 years on it would be interesting if anyone since had experienced a problem caused by the conversion causing a strain on the camera's motor

The question that springs to mind is why make did Pentax make the conversion that simple if there was a problem when this was done?

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 06-25-2020, 04:36 PM  
The P645 200s: thoughts and experiences?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 43
Views: 2,891
Certainly when I switch to MF on my 75mm FA and use the green hexagonal as the signal that I have the correct focus and then switch to autofocus the green signal is spot on

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 04-27-2020, 09:45 AM  
Is there still a market for 645 film gear?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 31
Views: 1,808
I fear that what you have said about Ricoh and the tools is true of all or nearly all of the former film camera makers and this leads me to two conclusions. 1. ,Working cameras will wear out eventually and this inevitable trend will make film cameras steadily more expensive 2. The revival in film may be short-lived and at best plateau only slightly above what it is now in the longer term due to this "Ricoh factor " for want of a better expression

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 04-26-2020, 12:33 PM  
Is there still a market for 645 film gear?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 31
Views: 1,808
What you have said and the poster above you has said accord with my understanding as well. Nearly all film cameras are rising in price. There would seem to be a revival of interest in film and film cameras and that plus the fact that no-one is making them any more has dictated the rise in price

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 04-26-2020, 12:26 PM  
Travel tripod for 645n - good for backpack, not too expensive?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 53
Views: 2,092
I feel sure I have read that the 645N 's so-called mirror slap is on the return and that when taking the shot it doesn't adversely affect it. In a comparison between the P645N and Nii on another forum quite a few users seem to suggest that the mirror lock on the Nii is an extra feature that made little difference.

I cannot comment on what weight the tripod needs to be to be stable but clearly the OP needs to be sure about how much adverse effect the N's lack of mirror lock up has.

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 04-13-2020, 07:52 AM  
The P645 200s: thoughts and experiences?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 43
Views: 2,891
Thanks for the reply I thought there might be a simple explanation that would set my mind at ease and it has but I felt I had to ask to be sure

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 04-08-2020, 08:55 AM  
The P645 200s: thoughts and experiences?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 43
Views: 2,891
Thanks for the illustrations. I have been thinking about getting a 200mm A and was glad to see your illustrations of each of the lenses. I use a P645N and thus film which I print under an enlarger so the answer to my question is hopefully that it doesn't apply but what I noticed in the picture was that what is clearly a white bottle has come out as pink in the A compared to the FA and for that matter as pink in the 15o-300mm zoom and the P 67 lens

Can I take it that this is an artefact of the scans and not caused by something in the A lens that would show up when using the RA4 process?

Thanks

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 08-26-2019, 11:36 AM  
Pentax 645N standard camera service in the uk?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 6
Views: 594
Try giving Newton and Ellis in Liverpool a call. If your camera is working and simply needs a CLA they might do it. I cannot say they will definitely undertake Pentax work but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 08-26-2019, 11:31 AM  
Pentax 645N, 67ii, long lenses and mirror / shutter shake
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 15
Views: 1,453
What hasn't been mentioned but is worth considering is Ilford D3200. It has a true speed of possibly 1250 and in my experience loses no significant shadow detail at 1600 so you now have a film that is two stops better than a 400 speed film with proportional shutter speed improvement for light conditions that are less than bright sunlight. In terms of grain a 645 neg will not, in my experience, start to show this at all at 8x10. If you envisage enlargements greater than this then 11x14 may be fine as well. You'd have to try it and see

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 08-01-2019, 02:09 PM  
Pentax 6x7 vs 645 systems Advantages and Disadvantages?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 60
Views: 5,187
I am unsure why a 6x7 neg is easier to handle in an enlarger for wet printing. Yes it is larger but a 645 neg isn't exactly small in terms of handling. I have never used 6x7 negs but have wet printed 35, 645 and 6x6 negs and can't say that 6x6 negs were any easier to set up or focus in my enlarger. If truth be told I haven't found 35 mm negs any more or less difficult to handle than either 645 or 6x6 negs.

The crucial difference is in what size of an enlargement each is capable of. A 645 neg is capable of being enlarged to what I'd regard as a very large size, say 16x20, before grain becomes an issue. Resolution and grain is largely proportional to film speed but with D400 or TMY-2 film resolution is still very good

16 x20 might become an issue with D3200 but lower speed such as 400 then a 645 neg is fine.

Unless you need to do very big enlargements beyond 16x20 on a regular basis then 645 negs are fine in my experience.

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 03-15-2019, 05:29 PM  
Pentax 645N - 120 film in 220 magazine ?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 63
Views: 23,178
I wish you luck on getting an answer on this from the poster. I think that the posts from about 17 to 21 will help you come to a conclusion

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 02-24-2019, 12:31 PM  
Pentax 645N - 120 film in 220 magazine ?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 63
Views: 23,178
Thanks, GR. All the evidence from what I can see of the engineering discussion, seems to point to the modification involving the additional shim on the lowered edge of the 220 pressure plate being the complete and safe solution. However there is no substitute for actual trouble free reports from users of converted inserts to put prospective converters at ease. It would seem that still lack a big enough data base of "happy converters" as yet.

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 02-22-2019, 03:24 PM  
Pentax 645N - 120 film in 220 magazine ?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 63
Views: 23,178
Thanks, itsdoable. I have now located what was being referred to. What threw me was that everyone was using the plural word "teeth" so I was looking for some part with teeth whereas a pointing finger might be a more accurate description. It's the old story: when you know what you are looking at, it is difficult to understand why others cannot easily see what you see.

There has to be a reason why the 220 pressure plate is lower at the edges and your explanation would cover it in terms of increasing space as only the emulsion is involved in a 220 film.

Metal tape might do the job but I suppose that a shim of the exact thickness and permanently attached to the edges might be the better permanent solution.

If the supply/demand problem were the other way around i.e. 120 film had been discontinued then converting 120 inserts to 220 would also work but might give film alignment issues? However that is me entering into the realms of a pure academic discussion

What remains disappointing is that the one Pentax source that has been mentioned either chose to not answer mikebob or the latter chose not to relay what Eric from Pentax said to him.

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 02-21-2019, 02:36 PM  
Pentax 645N - 120 film in 220 magazine ?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 63
Views: 23,178
I have been going over this whole thread tonight and mikebob in post #11 got an answer from Eric at Pentax( I assume he is the guru engineer on all things Pentax?). I have to say that in relation to the nub of this thread about a 220 to 120 conversion Eric's answer did not seem in any way to cover the question asked of him. mikebob then replied and his reply left little or no doubt about what information was needed from Eric. mikebob as of May 2010 was awaiting an answer but has not been back to say if he ever received one. I suspect not otherwise he would surely have given us the reply

So in the first instance Eric at Pentax seems not to have answered the question and in the second instance when mikebob made it very clear what the issue was, there appears to have been no answer in nearly 9 years

I always get suspicious when clear questions do not get clear answers. It suggests that while the person with the knowledge(in this case Eric at Pentax) has the answer he'd prefer not to give it. We need to ask ourselves why

I had a look at my 120 insert in an attempt to try and locate if there is the same part in it as in the 220 that allows the 220 insert to act like a 120 and stop at 16 frames but could not see anything. One member did provide photos but without an arrow to point out the part in question so I may be looking in the wrong place.

So does the 120 insert have the same piece and if so a photo of it would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

asahijock
Forum: Pentax Medium Format 02-20-2019, 04:18 PM  
Pentax 645N - 120 film in 220 magazine ?
Posted By asahijock
Replies: 63
Views: 23,178
I am not an engineer and admit to having a problem with understanding engineering drawings but from "itsdoable's" diagrams it appears that with a 220 back the pressure plate is thicker than the 120, such that the pressure plate on the 220 plus the film is equal to the 120 pressure plate plus film and backing paper.

If this is correct then why does using a 220 pressure plate in a conversion to 120 plus both the film and backing paper not increase the total thickness. From the pictures given to us by kaseki the only lower lip part of the 220 plate appears to be able to compensate for the 120 backing paper is the edges and not the central area where the film plus paper runs

Given this, I cannot see how using a 220 plate in any way compensates for the addition of the backing paper so my conclusion is that there will be more strain on the motor. Whether this in enough to lead to a problem remains open. Some believe it has and others report no problem

I may have completely misunderstood what is being said about shims, adhesive silver tape being the "cure" to any problem of extra strain

I do not have a 220 back to examine so I start at a disadvantage. I would be grateful if anyone can explain what the flaws are in what I have said. Has anyone measured both plates to check if they are of different thickness and if so what was the result?

asahijock
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