Should I purchase better camera or better lens?

Ace · 07-16-2013, 09:16 AM

I am a landscape photographer on a budget. I am looking into two option for a new purchase. Should I buy a K10d with the 15mm limited or a K5 with the kit lens? My main concern is image quality of raw shots. Everything I read says at low ISO the CCD of the K10d still produces great images. Does this still hold true compared to the newer cameras? Please let me know; buy the Good camera or buy the Good lens.

panoguy · 07-16-2013, 09:49 AM

Lens.
Great glass lasts nearly forever, and the 15mm Limited is great glass. The kit lens will degrade most of the advantage the K-5 sensor adds, unless you want the flexibility of a zoom and don't care about the softer (and not as wide) images. Also, the K10D is still a good camera for landscape/ tripod work! Bracket if the dynamic range in the raw files isn't enough for you...

Adam · 07-16-2013, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Ace

I am a landscape photographer on a budget. I am looking into two option for a new purchase. Should I buy a K10d with the 15mm limited or a K5 with the kit lens? My main concern is image quality of raw shots. Everything I read says at low ISO the CCD of the K10d still produces great images. Does this still hold true compared to the newer cameras? Please let me know; buy the Good camera or buy the Good lens.

The K10D is way behind the K-5 in terms of image quality, but I agree with panoguy. A good lens on a bad camera is much better than a bad lens on a good camera!

carrrlangas · 07-16-2013, 10:16 AM

Agree with Panoguy and Adam. The only bad thing about "old" cameras is that they are kind of slow to operate Reviewing images, saving time, etc... If I were you I´d buy the K10+15mm but do your search. Used prices vary a lot and you could get a "newer" camera for very little difference.

Na Horuk · 07-16-2013, 10:20 AM

I think most people will suggest lenses first, unless you need something that only new cameras offer, like high MP count, video capabilities, live view, focus peaking..
Lenses also lose value very slowly, so you can sell them years later at a minimal net loss. Camera bodies tend to depreciate quickly, down to a certain value where they stabilize.

Btw, if you are on a budget, you might also want to look at K-01 deals. New or second hand, you can sometimes get it for under $300. For landscapes, the K-01 should be great. Its not super fast, but its not a big problem for landscape photography. It has a weak AA filter, so it will produce sharp photos. And its very compact.

jimr-pdx · 07-16-2013, 10:28 AM

It's true the CCD imager is excellent at low ISO - so is CMOS but some feel something is different about its excellence

The K-01 is a great idea, as you can test the sensor results and resell for minimal loss if it's not your cup of tea. The K-#or K-## series will be more responsive in the SLR style, which sounds like your preference. Alternately, you might seek a local club with Pentax folk and swap chips for an afternoon?

wkraus · 07-16-2013, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

I think most people will suggest lenses first, unless you need something that only new cameras offer, like high MP count, video capabilities, live view, focus peaking..
Lenses also lose value very slowly, so you can sell them years later at a minimal net loss. Camera bodies tend to depreciate quickly, down to a certain value where they stabilize.

Btw, if you are on a budget, you might also want to look at K-01 deals. New or second hand, you can sometimes get it for under $300. For landscapes, the K-01 should be great. Its not super fast, but its not a big problem for landscape photography. It has a weak AA filter, so it will produce sharp photos. And its very compact.

I also tend to be a lens guy, so I'd suggest get a fine prime lens as a first priority. That said, I recently stepped up from a K10D to a K-5 II and once you try to push the boundaries the sensor advantage is striking. Perhaps you best see for yourself. If you PM me with an email address I can send you a few raw files from both cameras to play around with (assuming that you have the software option to do so).

Ace · 07-16-2013, 11:03 AM

Thanks for all of the replies. I have thought about the k-01 but I am not sure that I can get used to not having a view finder. But for the price, it is very tempting to get that quality of sensor.

Anvh · 07-16-2013, 11:25 AM

K10D is indeed a very fine camera, certainly for landscapes it should do very well.
The K10D is still as capable as 4 years ago, it's still the same camera afterall

I still have my K10D even though I've the K5 the images of the K10D just look clearer at lower ISO.

Ace · 07-16-2013, 12:29 PM

I love hearing owners of K10D's talk about the camera. Most have upgraded to newer cameras, but they all seem to have a place in their heart for the K10D. It reminds me of the days of film cameras. It's rare in digital with the rapid advancements of technology that people have attachments to older cameras.

cjblazer · 07-16-2013, 12:34 PM

I agree about going for the lens first. I went that route myself for the reasons listed above ie making the biggest difference IQ wise, lasting a lifetime, holding value etc. My justification also was that if I upgrade my camera first, by the time I could afford to get good lenses on it, there will probably be the newer upgraded camera out. But in getting the lenses first, by the time I could afford my new camera, I could then put the lenses I wanted for it on right away on the newest generation camera, if that makes sense. In any case it ended up working out well for me. So if it was me I would get the 15mm that you will probably have a very long time and will make a great tool for your landscape work, then by the time you can upgrade a camera to go with it the next gen Pentax will be out that you can buy, or maybe get a k5iis that will be on clearance sales for the same price a K5 is now and your 15mm will still be around the same value. That’s how I think about it anyways.

redrockcoulee · 07-16-2013, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Ace

I love hearing owners of K10D's talk about the camera. Most have upgraded to newer cameras, but they all seem to have a place in their heart for the K10D. It reminds me of the days of film cameras. It's rare in digital with the rapid advancements of technology that people have attachments to older cameras.

My wife recently upgraded from the K10D to the K5 only because she dropped the K10D and the autofocus stopped working properly. I think the folks on photo forums tend to upgrade more often then the general user (nothing to back this up just my feeling). The downside of getting the 15DA is you are limited to a wide angle view only. Nothing wrong with that as it may be my next lens but it is limiting. You might also look for a used 16-45 DA 4.0 which would be better quality than the kit lens and more versitile than a wide prime. The only reason that I do not own this lens is my wife has one and I can use it the odd time it is not on her camera. I went the prime route instead. The 16-45 is much less expensive than the 15DA so you might be able to get a newer camera than the K10D and a better lens then the 18-55.

civiletti · 07-16-2013, 12:51 PM

Get the K-5. It's resolution and dynamic range are big advantages for landscape. The kit lens is decent stopped down to f5.6 or higher, which is where most landscape images are made.

stevebrot · 07-16-2013, 01:26 PM

I am still shooting with my K10D and will upgrade when it finally breaks. The low ISO performance is great, but the AF sucks. Build is great, but it is bulkier and heavier than current product. I like using it with my legacy glass, but the stop-down metering is a crap shoot (fixed in K-7 and newer bodies). As noted above, it is as excellent a camera today as when it was made. If you want higher resolution in the identical body at close to the same price point, I might suggest the K20D.

Steve

Kozlok · 07-16-2013, 01:26 PM

The DA 15 is a fantastic lens, but it really is not very versatile. You won't take pictures of your wife and kids with it due to perspective distortions.

Based on Adam's review today, I'd say get the Sigma 17-70. It's a little cheaper than the 15. The K30 may be available for less than a k5.

One more choice, the K30 is often available packaged with the 18-135, which is a decent lens. May save you a little cash, and you get WR as a bonus.

07-16-2013, 09:16 AM	#1
Ace Guest	Should I purchase better camera or better lens? I am a landscape photographer on a budget. I am looking into two option for a new purchase. Should I buy a K10d with the 15mm limited or a K5 with the kit lens? My main concern is image quality of raw shots. Everything I read says at low ISO the CCD of the K10d still produces great images. Does this still hold true compared to the newer cameras? Please let me know; buy the Good camera or buy the Good lens.

07-16-2013, 10:11 AM	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,594	Originally posted by Ace I am a landscape photographer on a budget. I am looking into two option for a new purchase. Should I buy a K10d with the 15mm limited or a K5 with the kit lens? My main concern is image quality of raw shots. Everything I read says at low ISO the CCD of the K10d still produces great images. Does this still hold true compared to the newer cameras? Please let me know; buy the Good camera or buy the Good lens. The K10D is way behind the K-5 in terms of image quality, but I agree with panoguy. A good lens on a bad camera is much better than a bad lens on a good camera! Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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07-16-2013, 09:49 AM	#2
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Lens. Great glass lasts nearly forever, and the 15mm Limited is great glass. The kit lens will degrade most of the advantage the K-5 sensor adds, unless you want the flexibility of a zoom and don't care about the softer (and not as wide) images. Also, the K10D is still a good camera for landscape/ tripod work! Bracket if the dynamic range in the raw files isn't enough for you...

07-16-2013, 10:16 AM	#4
carrrlangas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Joensuu (Finland) Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,761	Agree with Panoguy and Adam. The only bad thing about "old" cameras is that they are kind of slow to operate Reviewing images, saving time, etc... If I were you I´d buy the K10+15mm but do your search. Used prices vary a lot and you could get a "newer" camera for very little difference.

07-16-2013, 10:20 AM	#5
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	I think most people will suggest lenses first, unless you need something that only new cameras offer, like high MP count, video capabilities, live view, focus peaking.. Lenses also lose value very slowly, so you can sell them years later at a minimal net loss. Camera bodies tend to depreciate quickly, down to a certain value where they stabilize. Btw, if you are on a budget, you might also want to look at K-01 deals. New or second hand, you can sometimes get it for under $300. For landscapes, the K-01 should be great. Its not super fast, but its not a big problem for landscape photography. It has a weak AA filter, so it will produce sharp photos. And its very compact.

07-16-2013, 10:28 AM	#6
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	It's true the CCD imager is excellent at low ISO - so is CMOS but some feel something is different about its excellence The K-01 is a great idea, as you can test the sensor results and resell for minimal loss if it's not your cup of tea. The K-#or K-## series will be more responsive in the SLR style, which sounds like your preference. Alternately, you might seek a local club with Pentax folk and swap chips for an afternoon?

07-16-2013, 10:30 AM	#7
wkraus Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Near Vienna, Austria Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,057	Originally posted by Na Horuk I think most people will suggest lenses first, unless you need something that only new cameras offer, like high MP count, video capabilities, live view, focus peaking.. Lenses also lose value very slowly, so you can sell them years later at a minimal net loss. Camera bodies tend to depreciate quickly, down to a certain value where they stabilize. Btw, if you are on a budget, you might also want to look at K-01 deals. New or second hand, you can sometimes get it for under $300. For landscapes, the K-01 should be great. Its not super fast, but its not a big problem for landscape photography. It has a weak AA filter, so it will produce sharp photos. And its very compact. I also tend to be a lens guy, so I'd suggest get a fine prime lens as a first priority. That said, I recently stepped up from a K10D to a K-5 II and once you try to push the boundaries the sensor advantage is striking. Perhaps you best see for yourself. If you PM me with an email address I can send you a few raw files from both cameras to play around with (assuming that you have the software option to do so).

07-16-2013, 11:03 AM	#8
Ace Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Nevada Posts: 38	Thanks for all of the replies. I have thought about the k-01 but I am not sure that I can get used to not having a view finder. But for the price, it is very tempting to get that quality of sensor.

07-16-2013, 11:25 AM	#9
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	K10D is indeed a very fine camera, certainly for landscapes it should do very well. The K10D is still as capable as 4 years ago, it's still the same camera afterall I still have my K10D even though I've the K5 the images of the K10D just look clearer at lower ISO.

07-16-2013, 12:29 PM	#10
Ace Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Nevada Posts: 38	I love hearing owners of K10D's talk about the camera. Most have upgraded to newer cameras, but they all seem to have a place in their heart for the K10D. It reminds me of the days of film cameras. It's rare in digital with the rapid advancements of technology that people have attachments to older cameras.

07-16-2013, 12:34 PM	#11
cjblazer New Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 7	I agree about going for the lens first. I went that route myself for the reasons listed above ie making the biggest difference IQ wise, lasting a lifetime, holding value etc. My justification also was that if I upgrade my camera first, by the time I could afford to get good lenses on it, there will probably be the newer upgraded camera out. But in getting the lenses first, by the time I could afford my new camera, I could then put the lenses I wanted for it on right away on the newest generation camera, if that makes sense. In any case it ended up working out well for me. So if it was me I would get the 15mm that you will probably have a very long time and will make a great tool for your landscape work, then by the time you can upgrade a camera to go with it the next gen Pentax will be out that you can buy, or maybe get a k5iis that will be on clearance sales for the same price a K5 is now and your 15mm will still be around the same value. That’s how I think about it anyways.

07-16-2013, 12:51 PM	#12
redrockcoulee Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Medicine Hat Posts: 2,306	Originally posted by Ace I love hearing owners of K10D's talk about the camera. Most have upgraded to newer cameras, but they all seem to have a place in their heart for the K10D. It reminds me of the days of film cameras. It's rare in digital with the rapid advancements of technology that people have attachments to older cameras. My wife recently upgraded from the K10D to the K5 only because she dropped the K10D and the autofocus stopped working properly. I think the folks on photo forums tend to upgrade more often then the general user (nothing to back this up just my feeling). The downside of getting the 15DA is you are limited to a wide angle view only. Nothing wrong with that as it may be my next lens but it is limiting. You might also look for a used 16-45 DA 4.0 which would be better quality than the kit lens and more versitile than a wide prime. The only reason that I do not own this lens is my wife has one and I can use it the odd time it is not on her camera. I went the prime route instead. The 16-45 is much less expensive than the 15DA so you might be able to get a newer camera than the K10D and a better lens then the 18-55.

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07-16-2013, 12:51 PM	#13
civiletti Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Photos: Albums Posts: 1,435	Get the K-5. It's resolution and dynamic range are big advantages for landscape. The kit lens is decent stopped down to f5.6 or higher, which is where most landscape images are made.

07-16-2013, 01:26 PM	#14
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	I am still shooting with my K10D and will upgrade when it finally breaks. The low ISO performance is great, but the AF sucks. Build is great, but it is bulkier and heavier than current product. I like using it with my legacy glass, but the stop-down metering is a crap shoot (fixed in K-7 and newer bodies). As noted above, it is as excellent a camera today as when it was made. If you want higher resolution in the identical body at close to the same price point, I might suggest the K20D. Steve

07-16-2013, 01:26 PM	#15
Kozlok Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Albuquerque Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,148	The DA 15 is a fantastic lens, but it really is not very versatile. You won't take pictures of your wife and kids with it due to perspective distortions. Based on Adam's review today, I'd say get the Sigma 17-70. It's a little cheaper than the 15. The K30 may be available for less than a k5. One more choice, the K30 is often available packaged with the 18-135, which is a decent lens. May save you a little cash, and you get WR as a bonus.